Malaysian 777 Passenger Airline Shot Down Over Eastern Ukraine

I think we know that the US supplies Ukrainian forces with equipment.

I even saw video of destroyed Ukrainian army position with lots of empty US army food packages. But of course that's like the lowest of what they have.

a reply to: whitepanther999

I saw a Pentagon brief where it was stated the US gave MREs, body armour, radios and similar defense type items to the Ukraine. Of course whether that was all, who knows.

The Ukraine doing this. in their eyes, to get more help would be pretty stupid. Are they stupid, who knows. I still tend to think it was a mistake by the separatists. To think the Russians are not helping the separatist is a bit naive.

originally posted by: spy66
a reply to: dragonridr

Theirs no european troops on the ground in Ukraine reporters would notice.

I dont think so. Western media dont cover US/NATO covert opperations. Without the consent of Pentagon.

To us it seams like the US/NATO are not involded at all, Just Russia. The US/NATO acts as if they are 100% neutral.

The Public dont evien realice that they have picked a side. They two think they are 100% neutral when they condemn Putin. We all think Putin is the bad sheep. That is because, that is what Our western media tell us. Our media is all one sided, Our media is far away from being neutral.

- Why arent Our media pushing the US for the evidence that the US claim to have?

They have already stated that they have a spy satellite present so its not like its a Secret. Russia New more about the US satellite than any of us did.

It has nothing to do with the media its Putins actions that created the problem. See he could have easily helped Ukraine through this could have came out looking like a world leader. He chose the opisit route took land from Ukraine through a fake election sent troops and military equipment into Ukraine trying to destabilize Kiev. Media doesnt tell people this we see it. The other thing is he keeps trying to float this idea the west is out to get Russia the problem is the west didnt care what Russia did until they started invading other nations. They spent alot of money trying to rebuild Russia after the collapse the last thing they wanted was to destroy there economy like now.

originally posted by: whitepanther999
I think we know that the US supplies Ukrainian forces with equipment.

I even saw video of destroyed Ukrainian army position with lots of empty US army food packages. But of course that's like the lowest of what they have.

Wow you dont watch the news do you of course they supplied MREs there army had nothing it was all over the news. In fact was 330000 of them and also medical supplies. However you wont see rocket launchers or m16s or tanks supplied by the US. Weird thing though Russians didnt send food and medical supplies they sent weapons hmm odd dont you think?

Here's a big piece of the plane found In a very heavily wooded area. Sorry, I tried to post the pic itself, but I don't know how.... pbs.twimg.com...:large

originally posted by: j.r.c.b.
Here's a big piece of the plane found In a very heavily wooded area. Sorry, I tried to post the pic itself, but I don't know how.... pbs.twimg.com...:large

Judging from the photo and what looks to be part of the door frame id say its the fuselage door just past the wings about midway down the aircraft.

a reply to: dragonridr

It has nothing to do with the media its Putins actions that created the problem. See he could have easily helped Ukraine through this could have came out looking like a world leader. He chose the opisit route took land from Ukraine through a fake election sent troops and military equipment into Ukraine trying to destabilize Kiev. Media doesnt tell people this we see it. The other thing is he keeps trying to float this idea the west is out to get Russia the problem is the west didnt care what Russia did until they started invading other nations. They spent alot of money trying to rebuild Russia after the collapse the last thing they wanted was to destroy there economy like now.

Well you dont know that. Because Our media is 100% pro-USA. We have no Clue as to how far up ukrains dark whole the US are.

People seam to ferget this very fast.

originally posted by: yuppa
well this is a moot point. turns out the government collapsed today. Just as expected because they arelike iraq inthe way they get along with each other.

Just Parliament... I forget how its set up but if a person holding a certain position resigned the entire government (parliament) is done until a new PM is appointed.

originally posted by: GargIndia
In real life Ukrainian force consists of citizens from several European nations.

So it is very much turning into EU/Russia war - which is closer to a world war.

The only thing remaining is a nuclear exchange.

All this for EU expansion?

You keep making this claim yet nothing to support it. Please post the sources that allowed you to come to the conclusion Ukraine's military is made up of Europeans.

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: GargIndia
In real life Ukrainian force consists of citizens from several European nations.

So it is very much turning into EU/Russia war - which is closer to a world war.

The only thing remaining is a nuclear exchange.

All this for EU expansion?

You keep making this claim yet nothing to support it. Please post the sources that allowed you to come to the conclusion Ukraine's military is made up of Europeans.

Well, they did sign an agreement with Europe, they are also connected to the European land mass, so that would make them Europeans

Not in the manner he keeps trying to push.

**As a side note its getting irritating having people create an account, post with it, deleting and making news one all while posting in specific threads. Apparently this site is the most popular in July based on the number of fraudulent accounts created.**

a reply to: roadgravel

The Ukraine doing this. in their eyes, to get more help would be pretty stupid. Are they stupid, who knows. I still tend to think it was a mistake by the separatists. To think the Russians are not helping the separatist is a bit naive.

I totally agree with you there. I think the Russians are definitely supplying the rebels. But I'd say it's most likely small arms, nothing bigger than anti-tank and man-pads. I don't think they'd be stupid enough to give them BUK systems and crews. As for the Ukrainians being stupid enough...well, you only have to watch a parliamentary session to see that the current government in Ukraine is....slightly out of control. Is it possible that that the rebels shot the plane down? Yes I believe it's possible. But I also believe it's possible that some nutjob in the government ( and there appears to be a number of them...) thought it'd be a grand idea to turn world opinion against the separatists. Whether or not that's the case, that certainly is the outcome.

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: yuppa
well this is a moot point. turns out the government collapsed today. Just as expected because they arelike iraq inthe way they get along with each other.

Just Parliament... I forget how its set up but if a person holding a certain position resigned the entire government (parliament) is done until a new PM is appointed.

Well when Prime Minister Arseny Yatseniuk resigned looks like out of frustration with not being able to get them to deal with the energy crises this triggers an election for Prime Minister spot. however hes still required to full fill his duties until the election so its still functioning. The battle thats been going on involves there are some that want to continue to buy Russian gas others want to import it and still others want to develop there own. Problem is nothing is being done. His frustration is that if they do nothing they have no choice but to buy Russian gas. It suspected that some of the people holding it up are doing so at Russias request. Thats why Presidehent Petro Poroshenko said he supported the move, which one politician said would clear "Moscow agents" from the chamber.

See Russia was so deeply entrenched in every aspect of Ukraine that what we are seeing is separation pains. Never had to come to this but Putin panicked. Even if Ukraine had moved towards Ukraine as he feared Russia was so important to them they would never have chosen one over the other. Putin made it sound like they were choosing the EU over Russia well now he forced them to by his actions.

a reply to: dragonridr

Which is goofy because Europe already decided to reverse gas flows they get from Russia back into Ukraine. They stated there is enough gas to get Ukraine through this year, giving time for a better gas deal with Russia while finding new sources.

a reply to: Flatcoat

Its already been confirmed by the rebels themselves in Russian media (ITAR-TASS) that they had BUK missile launchers.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: Flatcoat

Its already been confirmed by the rebels themselves in Russian media (ITAR-TASS) that they had BUK missile launchers.

That doesn't mean the Russians supplied them.

originally posted by: dragonridr

originally posted by: j.r.c.b.
Here's a big piece of the plane found In a very heavily wooded area. Sorry, I tried to post the pic itself, but I don't know how.... pbs.twimg.com...:large

Judging from the photo and what looks to be part of the door frame id say its the fuselage door just past the wings about midway down the aircraft.

Looks like is right before the rear door in the tail section. The windows end and the the door. Also the width of the blue paint then the silver/grey.

Hard to tell with the bending

edit:

would be logic if the tail section pieces were in a separate area,

originally posted by: Flatcoat

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: Flatcoat

Its already been confirmed by the rebels themselves in Russian media (ITAR-TASS) that they had BUK missile launchers.

That doesn't mean the Russians supplied them.

Looked it up, it is stated that they took from Ukraine in the end of June.

Later though, after the crash, Ukraine said that they didn't.

It's all smelly.

There is no way a BUK downed the MH17.

If a BUK missile had exploded Close to the MH17. It would have immidietly set the airliner on fire. The heated fragments from the exploding fuze would have penetraited the airliner and set it on fire. Mh17 was also heave loaded With fuel.

MH17 would have broken into many Peaces do to the damge and the friction that would be caused. And there would be a solid smoke trail from where the BUK missile hit it and all the way to the ground. But there were hardly any smoke trail at all.

It was the Ukrainian SU-25 that did this.

a reply to: spy66

You mean like that solid smoke tail the DHL Airbus left over Iraq after being hit by a missile, and having the outer peron of the wing visibily on fire?

Ok, so it was an air to air missile. Where was the massive smoke trail they leave on launch? There were allegedly eyewitnesses that saw fighters flying near the plane, fighters that don't leave smoke trails, but missed the huge tail that would point straight back to them somehow?