Malaysian 777 Passenger Airline Shot Down Over Eastern Ukraine

a reply to: spy66

Putin is now challenging the US on their evidence. Russian radar have not picked up any missiel "BUK" fired from the ground towards MH17. And are asking the US to put forth their evidence.

Even if they did do you think they would show it, as that would not be good for a certain group of separatists. And if the US shows the evidence Russia will say it's all made up propaganda much like many on ATS will say.

a reply to: Seek_Truth

Just under 23,000 with no external stores. With max payload, it's 16,000 feet. So yeah, it would be kind of hard for it to be up around MH17s altitude.

a reply to: spy66

The Word now is that the explosive rods used in the BUK dont consit With the downed Mh17.

Who is the official source for that info. Who has even had the chance to test plane parts, maybe the Russians?

a reply to: spy66

The claim that the explosive rods don't match is wrong. They were saying that a SAM uses a different type of warhead, but it uses explosive rods just like an air to air missile does.

Yes they have Flankers, but every claim of fighters in the area has been of the Frogfoot. Even the fake controller claimed Su-25s.

a reply to: Seek_Truth

It seems that the "emperor in chief" is late as usual.

Just found this from the PPRUNE aviation site...it's rather long, but an interesting article: "Donetsk city officials were running about the suburbs ordering people to take shelter.
Residents were being told to stay in basement until the all clear could be given. By midday with sporadic shooting continuing they remained in the basement.
Dutch air crash investigators were at the nearby city of Torez where 200 bodies of the victims of MH17 are being stored in four refrigerated train carriages. But there are reports too that some other investigators had just arrived by train at Donetsk."
MORE AT LINK:

www.news.com.au...


Sorry, don't know why the link is broke?? This is it in a nutshell: Breaking News

"Heavy gun fire at train station where bodies are stored.

One person dead and buildings are on fire.

Reports of Ukraine tanks moving in.

Journos detained and people are advised to stay indoors."

a reply to: thesaneone

Way late. Shouldnt take that long to walk down the hall and out the door lol

originally posted by: roadgravel
a reply to: spy66

The Word now is that the explosive rods used in the BUK dont consit With the downed Mh17.

Who is the official source for that info. Who has even had the chance to test plane parts, maybe the Russians?

Dont ask for the Source yet. Because it was a phone Call.

There have been displaied a lot of images of Mh17. And some parts of the body show damage that are consistant With a Air to Air missile. I have not seen the images so i dont know which one they have looked at.

a reply to: roadgravel

The initial claim I saw was that it used a contact warhead, but the SA-11 can use either a contact warhead or HE fragmentation warhead, which is the more common.

a reply to: spy66

Prove it. Show us the damage consistent with air to air that couldn't be caused by a SAM.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: spy66

The claim that the explosive rods don't match is wrong. They were saying that a SAM uses a different type of warhead, but it uses explosive rods just like an air to air missile does.

Yes they have Flankers, but every claim of fighters in the area has been of the Frogfoot. Even the fake controller claimed Su-25s.

No its not the same. The rods used in the BUK are way more powerful than the rod used in the Air to Air missile.

Just wait and see. Its going to be a big issue later on.

Link

Russians say an SU-25 climbing in area. That radar image looks odd. Maybe because it's Russian.

Doesn't it look like the 777 shown is at 35k feet and what is the ID . Guess it's Russian lettering (backward N). Maybe their display layout is different or is it just being passed of as the plane.

Anyone with a background that can figure it out here?

edit:

It the lines are the tracks, didn't they just pass each other and the 777 is going the wrong direction, NW.

Here's another good site showing a map of how big the crash site is, hopefully, this link will work for me: www.nytimes.com...

a reply to: spy66

It depends on how far away the missile was when the warhead detonated, as well as the angle to the aircraft. But I have yet to see proof that a SAM couldn't have done it, which includes analysis from people that would know.

Here's another filled with pictures. Maybe our engineer folks, or those that know about planes can sift through these pics & tell us what some of this stuff is?? www.flickr.com...

a reply to: j.r.c.b.

The first one is an air duct, possibly for the bleed air system, or the APU. The two big pieces are fuselage pieces, can't tell from where.

a reply to: Zaphod58

I appreciate you taking a look Zaph, & explaining some of what we are seeing. To my eyes, it's just a bunch of metal & wires, so any help identifying, is much appreciated

a reply to: j.r.c.b.

At least a couple of those pictures also show possible shrapnel damage.

a reply to: j.r.c.b.

And this image shows some sort of metal frame that is painted in camo????

Why would any part of a civilian aircraft be painted camo?

Seems odd to me if that piece is indeed from MH17.....

A theory on SU-27 fighters doing escort or CAP duty over Ukraine begin July 17. Don't know if the MIG vs SU-25 incident has been proved true. Either way, a fighter was lost.

“But when the Su-25M1 was shot down by the Russia Air Force 6969th AB’s MiG-29 on Jul. 16, the situation and condition became more critical than previous days and more Su-27 sorties were conducted to confront Russian MiG-29s. I believe those two Su-27s were not in sky just for standard practice in that day [Jul. 17], I believe they were involved in HAVCAP (High Asset Value Combat Air Patrol) mission sortie in that day.”

In other words: since the Russian interceptors had downed a Su-25 on the previous days, the Ukrainian escorted all military and civil flights over eastern Ukraine on Jul. 17. Including MH17.

“During the UEFA 2012, the 831st TAB and its Flankers had same role, during those competitions they had duty to escort the airliners in FL330 and other routes in case emergency. They played same role during the Sochi Winter Olympics in Russia. They were airborne and they even escorted a hijacked airplane. They were also ready to provide security of all passenger airplanes over Ukraine. They are now following same procedure and they could protect all of the airplanes over Ukraine in-front of Russians since Jul 16.”

Provided the Su-27s were really escorting or (more likely) watching from their CAP station many, if not all, civil flights over Eastern Ukraine for the first time ever on Jul. 17, in the wake of the downing of the Su-25, the operators inside the Buk may have mistaken the Boeing 777 shadowed by/near two Flankers for a high-value plane of the Ukrainian Air Force. On their radar screens, the sight of a large plane with two accompanying (or circling in CAP not too far away) fighter jets was completely new and may only mean the Ukrainians were escorting an important plane. And that would be the reason why they downed it without spending too much time analysing its transponder code and altitude.

Link