All arguing aside, this is israel.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Dear BuzzyWigs,

I don't know what is in your heart and mind, only you know that. But, I can tell you what you sound like to me, and it may be helpful to you as you continue to address others and sharpen your writing (as we all need to do).

You sound overwrought, hysterical, judgmental, closed minded, and ready to swing your umbrella at the first person who dares to disagree with you. Again, that may not be who you actually are, but your words express that.

"Unconscionable." "Shame on you." "Had the gall." What did I do, have sex with a cat?

I am invited to watch a certain speaker. As I would for any speaker, I try to get a little information about him before I bother to go listen. After finding out some things about him from a neutral source, I shared it, and decided not to go listen. That's "Unconscionable?"

This man speaks about the TRUTH

But is he speaking the truth (in capital letters) or just talking about it? But, more important, how do you know the truth (still all caps)?

And "genocide?" That's a pretty drastic charge supported by nothing at all. The Palestinian population has been going up steadily since 1970, and the population in 2010 was fours time the population in 1970. By the way, if by genocide, you're trying to imply that Israel is trying to wipe out non-Jewish Arabs, you should note that 20 % of Israel's population is made up of non-Jewish Arabs who are either citizens or permanent residents.

Anyone who seriously states that Israel is committing genocide is either extraordinarily uninformed or lying. Why bother to listen to such a speaker?

And there is no particular reason to believe him because he is the son of a general. As an example, consider Ron Reagan, the son of the President. He is an Atheist, has worked for MSNBC and Air America Radio. He dropped out of Yale after one semester in order to become a ballet dancer. He voted for John Kerry and Barack Obama. Your parent does not get credibility for you, you have to earn it yourself.

ISRAEL is a TERRORIST state, and the Palestinians are their victims. They DO want to commit Ethnic cleansing and genocide.

I repeat that this sensational charge has insufficient evidence to support it.

The Palestinians are not privileged to be treated equally under the laws

Of course they're not, and you would prefer it that way if you stopped to think about it. Do you really support the idea that all Palestinians must obey Israel's laws and can't make their own? And what if Israeli law comes into conflict with Shariah law? Bye-bye, Sharia. Israeli police patrolling up and down the streets of Gaza, questioning people, making arrests for a violation of an Israeli law? That announces to the entire world that the Palestinians can't govern themselves, Israel has to do it for them. Do you want to try to sell that idea?

For years now, I have been sick to my stomach that the USA "supports" Israel.

Does it help settle your stomach to know that we give four times the amount of Israel's aid to Afghanistan? And as far as paying off politicians by supporting Israel? We give $3.1 billion in total aid to Israel. Obama wants $3.7 billion to speed up the processing of illegal immigrants at the southern border. The amount of aid to Israel isn't enough to buy off all of Congress.

As an aside, most of the money for the southern border will go to government employees and lawyers. That should make you reach for the Tums.

Also, the speaker said that the constant "Iran is coming! Iran is coming!" is a trick that Bibi uses to deflect attention from the appalling treatment of the Palestinians.

A trick? When the world's intelligence agencies pretty much agree that Iran is going for nuclear capability, and that they are funding rebels and fighters around the Mid-east? I've seen opinion pieces indicating that Iran would like to be the dominant power in the Mid-east, and is pushing events to help make that happen.

You didn't watch it, but you come in here and call people names and spout the propaganda that YOU prefer???

Forgive me if I sound snarky here, but is that opposed to the propaganda that YOU prefer?

With respect and the desire for true conversation,
Charles1952

originally posted by: smithjustinb

originally posted by: kwakakev
the Zionist is such a strong political force in America.

There is no strong Zionist force in America. What are you even talking about? I hope you're not implying that America is in the Middle East as religious aggressors?

Not at all... Israel has never attacked America w/o provocation and w/o suffering retaliation like the USS Liberty, never have we acted on their behalf, never have we supplied the nuclear material...

Never, ever.



Derek

originally posted by: PurpleDog UK

Also for the record…what is your definition of a Muslim Extremist.?

Anyone who kills in the name of Allah. Any Jihadist.

a reply to: smithjustinb

There is no strong Zionist force in America.

Ever hear of something called AIPAC? Those people are not Jews they are Zionist.

originally posted by: buster2010
Muslims have had their land pillaged to deny otherwise is just ignorance of historical facts.

No. To deny otherwise is to look at the archaeological record going back to 1200 BCE, when Israelites first came on the scene. All historical evidence suggests that the Canaanites who were in that region originally became Israelites through a peaceful transformation, and not by conquest.

History of ancient Israel.

Educate yourself.

originally posted by: buster2010
a reply to: smithjustinb

There is no strong Zionist force in America.

Ever hear of something called AIPAC? Those people are not Jews they are Zionist.

Don't know why you're still quoting me on that. I already withdrew my statement as misinformed.

originally posted by: kwakakev
a reply to: smithjustinb

My ancestry extends into parts of Europe and elsewhere, this does not give me the right to go back there and take land by force. If I did then I would expect a defensive retaliation at my invasion.

The Jews have never stopped considering Israel their homeland. Even after they were conquered 1000 years later after Israel was founded.

originally posted by: DarknStormy
a reply to: smithjustinb

Same again, If someone attacks Muslims, they have the right to attack them also.

Actually, what are you trying to prove here? Because none of those verses are actually proving your point..

Congratulations on selecting 4 verses out of 164 verses and claiming that somehow that debunks the fact that Muslims wage Jihad against non-Muslims for the simple fact that they're not Muslim. Talk about taking things out of context.




You provided 4 verses. How you looked over the one that said this (among many others):

but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.

is telling of how far you are willing to go to support a terrorist ideology. Tell me again, why are you defending the motivations of Jihadi Terrorists? Anyone tell me why they are.


Seriously. What the hell is wrong with you people? Have you forgotten?

originally posted by: smithjustinb

originally posted by: buster2010
Muslims have had their land pillaged to deny otherwise is just ignorance of historical facts.

No. To deny otherwise is to look at the archaeological record going back to 1200 BCE, when Israelites first came on the scene. All historical evidence suggests that the Canaanites who were in that region originally became Israelites through a peaceful transformation, and not by conquest.

History of ancient Israel.

Educate yourself.

You mean the history you fail to grasp? What happened in 1200 BC has nothing to do with what is going on now. The Arabs have had control of this land for nearly a thousand years now. Even though you choose to not acknowledge it that land was and is Arab land and it has been pillaged.

originally posted by: smithjustinb

originally posted by: kwakakev
a reply to: smithjustinb

My ancestry extends into parts of Europe and elsewhere, this does not give me the right to go back there and take land by force. If I did then I would expect a defensive retaliation at my invasion.

The Jews have never stopped considering Israel their homeland. Even after they were conquered 1000 years later after Israel was founded.

Christians can also call Israel their homeland seeing how their Messiah was born there. I think the Israelis should have to give up half of their nation to the Christians that is only fair.

originally posted by: buster2010

You mean the history you fail to grasp? What happened in 1200 BC has nothing to do with what is going on now.

Bull crap. It has everything to do with it to the Israelis. You are pretending that the Israelis didn't occupy that land before Palestinians and you're just wrong.

a reply to: g146541

Miko Peled is an excellent voice for reform in Israel. However, he is aware and has said as much that it's not entirely an Israeli issue. It's a people issue. And to find peace means winning the hearts and minds of the majority. Where Miko is most vocal against Israel is the Zionist Conservative Political existence that has existed in Israeli Government since it's foundations and drove most of the issues we face to day. His father and Grandfather being some of those people.

If I could go back to 1948 and have influence in not allowing the British Mandate and UN to allow the creation of Israel where it is today I would. But the reality is that Israel exists and always will. For better or for worse. Hindsight is always 20/20. To fix the issues now that exist. Changes in policies and behavior within the Israeli Government must be changed. There are a lot of people in Israel and Palestine who are dedicated to peace and fruition of a two state solution. There are fundamentalists and extremists on both sides that have prevented this from day one though. That is the real threat and until that changes no peace will be found.

Right now everyone is responding and do only what they feel best which does not serve the security and peace for the future of either places. That is where Miko and those who work in the same direction come in. It's a huge risk for seeking peace. It means being vulnerable. I don't know that Miko and company will ever achieve that. But they keep Israel and Palestine honest at least.

originally posted by: smithjustinb

originally posted by: [post=18156551]PurpleDog UK[/post

It has EVERYTHING to do with a nation out of control and taking land and resources illegally (oh and trying to shift the population already living there….!!).

The fact is. Jewish Israel existed before the Palestinians took it from them.

Not only is that not a fact but it is hypocritical of you in a conquered continent to justify Israel's actions. It does matter who in Americas government is Zionist because not only do they demand Israel first, but they take our tax dollars that could be used here and give it to the religious war. That is not American. Before it was Jewish Israel that bit of land had many different names with many different religions given to and promised by many governments. That land was other peoples land long before it was Jewish. How did Palestine take it from them? They had no army and are not a country.
America should not be supporting Israel.

a reply to: smithjustinb


You conveniently left out half of the story.... Why did they go there? How did they get there? Whose land was it before? Who did they pay taxes to to be able to live there?


The same goes for now with the Balfour declaration.
If you are right why does that exist? Why would any American agree to that? It's the same reason and people who are messing our country up.

a reply to: charles1952

Discuss the content of what is being said. Poison the well i think is what you are doing. Nice to meet you.

a reply to: daaskapital

Defending freedom by torturing kids who may have thrown rocks.

a reply to: g146541

Without going into the fact that Miko Peled is know in Israel for hiding behind the green grass of Japan and USA when shouting out his extreme leftist remarks, you might want an insiders view who is not extrimist!

Take a listen to the son of Hamas founder Sheikh Hassan Yousef....

a reply to: combatmaster

Take a listen to the son of Hamas founder Sheikh Hassan Yousef...

Nice!! Very clearly amplifies that there are two sides and defines the gulf separating them.

This has been a most interesting thread. Kinda cool when people try to follow along with the OP's intent.

originally posted by: violence=answer
Not only is that not a fact

It is a fact and I have provided a source that supports it.

but it is hypocritical of you in a conquered continent to justify Israel's actions.

The people who want the Jews out of Israel want them out of Israel because they are Jewish. They don't want to coexist. They want to kill everyone who isn't Muslim. I justify Israel's actions in the same way I justify America's actions with its involvement in the Middle East. Wars against Muslim Extremism.

It does matter who in Americas government is Zionist because not only do they demand Israel first, but they take our tax dollars that could be used here and give it to the religious war. That is not American.

Bull crap. The enemy of my enemy is my friend. Israel's enemy is Muslim extremists. America's enemy is Muslim extremists. I fully support all efforts to combat Muslim extremism.

originally posted by: violence=answer
Before it was Jewish Israel that bit of land had many different names with many different religions given to and promised by many governments. That land was other peoples land long before it was Jewish.

Before it was Israel, it was ancient Egypt and then it was Canaan. All archaeological evidence points to the fact that Israel was founded peacefully by the Canaanites who proclaimed themselves to be Israelites during a peaceful social transformation within Canaan.

How did Palestine take it from them? They had no army and are not a country.

Before The Siege of Jerusalem, where a Muslim Caliph conquered Israel, there is a number of conflicts that didn't even involve Muslims, however, it all goes back to the Canaanite's peaceful, social transformation within Canaan to become Israelites.

America should not be supporting Israel.

America is supporting America. Israel and America are fighting the same enemies for the same reasons. We are both defending ourselves from Jihad.