Bush, a "conservative"?

Ok, I touched on this on ATS and not many people bothered to respond. This might be a better place to ask this as the board is segmented and the thoughts and responses can be better tailored.

People try and paint Dubya as a conservative. They do this, I'm sure, because he led us to believe that that is what he is, but those who know the difference between conservatism and "right-wing" or even the Republican Party knows that this man doesn't fit the bill.

A nation is not long to hold its sovereignty if it has no control of its borders, and we have no control of our borders. One would think that the prudent thing to do is to close the borders and control immigration. But instead, this guy seems to have intentions of handing the keys to the country over to Vicinte Fox. What gives?

Bush is funny like that. He is only conservative on some issues and beyond liberal on others. When I think of conservative Bush, I think of sexual education, gay rights, and abortion, when I think of the "other" Bush, topics such as immigration, border control, and spending comes to mind.

absolutely right. people often make the mistake of calling bush a conservative, but when you examine the facts of both, he is most definitely NOT a conservative. still, its an easy term as 'opposite of a liberal' which we are all (apparently) very familiar with.

glad to see the forum off to the right start

Bush is a lot like Reagan was only more to the right. Reagan was more pragmatic in what he said versus what he did. The best example is that of abortion in Reagans case. Talked the talk, but then really left it alone.

TC is right though. When i think real ultra conservative, I come up with the John Birch Society. Now that right wing

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne

A nation is not long to hold its sovereignty if it has no control of its borders, and we have no control of our borders. One would think that the prudent thing to do is to close the borders and control immigration. But instead, this guy seems to have intentions of handing the keys to the country over to Vicinte Fox. What gives?

I coudn't agree more TC and unless the GOP takes a different view of this issue, you can bet it will be made one of the big issues by Hillary in 2008. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to accuratly guage the publics leaning after the last election. I think we're going to see a massive re-tooling of and a new persona from the Dems with this issue leading the way next time around.

If you would notice Bush went uber conservative near reelection time and right after the election went ultra liberal. I don't like it one bit.

Originally posted by BlackJackal
If you would notice Bush went uber conservative near reelection time and right after the election went ultra liberal. I don't like it one bit.

I disagree... Bush preached the same things he did in the 2000 election... Well accept for the obvious things like the war in Iraq and 9/11 etc... and doesn't it make you cringe when you here people on ATS calling him a neocon? I believe the border thing was handled in the best possible way... Is building a 30 foot electric fence across the border the best way?

Here is an article supporting the Bush "liberal" theory.

www.watchblog.com...

An article about a huge wall.

www.vdare.com...

And finally here an article that may shed some light on why it was done.

"Mexico and the United States are more than neighbors," Bush said as he and Fox stood side by side at a news conference. "We are partners in building a safer, more democratic and more prosperous hemisphere."

immigration.about.com...://www.washingtonpost.com/wp%2Ddyn/articles/A36776%2D2004Mar6.html

Originally posted by FredT
When i think real ultra conservative, I come up with the John Birch Society. Now that right wing

i know a member of the john birch society. his oldest son married a black women. i love eating dinner with them.

bush does a fair job of running with conservatives and stepping aside from their agenda. he does that part well, he doesnt necessarily merge that with policy very well.

Okay, Thomas, I have a problem with Conservatiism being defined by an electric fence, BUT you're on the right track. Our Borders, language, and culture is under constant attack. (Trust me, it's NOTHING LESS than attack. Just ask the members of M.E.ch.A, who want to turn the South West into Mexica!)

The problem isn't open borders...the problem is allowing those who come across to continue their old "where ever they're from" ways and NOT pounding into them that THEY'RE AMERICANS NOW!! Personally, I'd favor dropping Citizenship papers from an aircraft, like candy from a penada, IF those who took up the papers did so, knowing that THIS was the price of coming over to our side.

[edit on 14-12-2004 by Toelint]

Originally posted by Toelint

The problem isn't open borders...the problem is allowing those who come across to continue their old "where ever they're from" ways and NOT pounding into them that THEY'RE AMERICANS NOW!!

[edit on 14-12-2004 by Toelint]

Thats a big problem I have with many ciultures coming into the US. In most cases, Americans have always prided themselves on being a mesh of different older cultures but it seems some of the people immigrating today refuse to melt into the pot. They expect the US to become just like the culture they left behind. If you liked it so well, why leave?

I guess most of this come from the Muslim Community who's goal is over-taking and changing the US into strict muslim state rather than assimilating into our society. Some still have the right attitude. The Chinese for example. They come to share what is best about their culture and enjoy what they like about ours. It is possible to retain the cultural significance of where one comes from without mandating everyone else change to suit you.

A good example is the Arab sheiks who come over here and still expected to be treated like royalty and have people bow down to them. It just doesn't happen and that usually leads to confrontation especially in their adolescent children who get thrown into a public school environment and decide they're going to park their car in the principle's space. They cannot handle being treated just like everyone else.

You can call him what ever you want, but dont throw him in to my party! I dont like him, dont support him, and I happen to think he is the worst president in the history of the United States of America. I would rather have Jimmy Carter in office

Bush is NOT 100% pro-life--he won't overturn Roe, for example, and he says abortion is okay for cases of rape and incest (which it's not).

He's also okay with gay civil unions.

There's conservative, then there's neo-con.

I dont think Bush acts like a republican in a lot of ways.

He has increased Goverment 3 times the size it was.

He spends money like a madman. Everything on credit too.

His answer for every issue that should be a state right issue, is to get the goverment involved. Gay marriage, medical majiuna(Sorry if Spelled Wrong)
these are state right issues.

Im a republican but I do not like Bush. I cant wait to he is out and hope his policies, here at home do not hurt the republican party down the road.

Bush is not a conservative nor is he a neo con. How about calling him a pseudo-conservative. I prefer to call him a Christian Socialist. Christian does not mean conservative ie most Catholics voted for Kerry. I happen to be a Christian who also happens to be a conservative libertarian. Finding Christians who want to legalize drugs is a tough one. My thought is if you do not have Jesus in your heart then you might as well get high because tomorrow you die and its all over. Enjoy the time you got because eternity in hell is a long time. I am sick and tired of trying to combat drugs with money. If there is a demand then there will be a supply. Might as well make it readily available so people do not have to steal to support their habits. If they do not OD then sooner or later they will turn to the only cure, Jesus. If they do OD, then natural selection makes the world stronger and the sheer numbers that will OD will scare the hell out of our children, which will actually discourage use.

Note: potheads are harmless as they are useless, they do not count.

No, by now even Republicans bush followers has notice that bush in not a conservative, I always though that under Democrats it was less military and more spending, and under Republican was supposed to be less spending but more military.

Right now it has gone into big government, pro corporations and family profits, and over used of military while the economy is of not consequences to the administration.

Perhaps we need to redifine what a consertive is perhaps consertives to spend up big.
If Reagan wasnt a consertive who was the last consertive leader in the whitehouse? Herbert Hoover?

Originally posted by xpert11
Perhaps we need to redifine what a consertive is perhaps consertives to spend up big.
If Reagan wasnt a consertive who was the last consertive leader in the whitehouse? Herbert Hoover?

I mostly define Hoover as "expletive deleted." And by mostly, I mean always.

Conservatism makes sense, it's just that our conservatives are rarely Conservative.

Bush only pays lip-service to conservative ideology. The guy is spending like an out-of-control teen with a no-limit credit card. He is not pro-life--instead he spews "culture of life" rhetoric as a cop-out. He's not against gay civil unions.

At least Kerry is a liberal and admits it. Thing is, my fellow Christians see the R behind someone's name and think they're literally heaven-sent.

Originally posted by Amorymeltzer
absolutely right. people often make the mistake of calling bush a conservative, but when you examine the facts of both, he is most definitely NOT a conservative. still, its an easy term as 'opposite of a liberal' which we are all (apparently) very familiar with.

glad to see the forum off to the right start

Wow.
So many conservatives agreeing with me.
I wondered if other had thought's about how Bush wasn't a conservative.
I remeber people callinghim a neocon, and a neocon saying that they were "liberals mugged by reality".
And then thinknig what does that make Bush?

If we actually got a real conservative in office, liberals would wet their pants. Bush stinks, officially. He is no kind of conservative aside from being Christian (he says at least) and he gives the obligitory piddly tax cut.