Christianity & Hobby Lobby

All of you are missing the point here.

The Constitution only forbids government sponsorship and compulsion of religious exercise by the individual. It does not require “separation” (exclusion)—of religion and religious persons from public affairs of the state.

The Contraceptive mandate is forcing a company to go against their founding values of what is practiced. Plus, not to mention the fact; there are plenty of businesses out there filing the same claim that Hobby Lobby has done but will not make the MSM. Why? Because Hobby Lobby is a chain of retail stores. If Walmart did the samething...it would be no different. If a one stop town in the middle of no where filed the claim; where is the hype? The MSM cannot and doesn't care about covering something like that. Just like the various high crimes that happen in the small towns that no one hears about.

What Hobby Lobby is doing will only boost their sales. I mean look at what happened to Chick Fil A. They nearly double their profits because someone screamed "they hate gays."

I personally think all of you need to take your nonfactual opinion out of crap that has nothing to do with any of you.
Forcing a company to pay for contraceptive pills isn't going to lower the births out of wedlock any more than taking the weapons away will lower crime.

What lowers both of these is the FREAKIN CHOICE not to do stupid stuff. Buttttttt, 90% of the populous of this planet is stupid and on top of that....................................will not watch their own children.

I had to tell a 5 year to stop pushing my 3 year old over because her parents decided not to do anything.

Now, how about WE as parents start teaching proper weapon use and safe sex(since sex will never be stopped).

-The SheepDog

a reply to: GokuVsSuperman0

The whole problem with the hobby lobby decision is that the whole reason corporations even exist as an entity is to separate the owner from personal liability from actions taken on behalf of he corporation. So now the Supreme Court has ruled that corporations can now speak politically with their owners voice and now have their owners religious identity, it is time to just abolish any protections these laws give. It is time the corporate boards and owners get told what they tell everyone else; "It is time to suck it up and take personal responsibility for your actions."

originally posted by: NthOther
This ruling did not give control over access to general contraception to the corporations. It addressed abortifacients and implants specifically, if I'm not mistaken. Female Hobby Lobby employees still have access to the daily pill (and other common forms of contraception) if they want it. I'm surprised this isn't common knowledge by now.

Hi NthOther,

The SCOTUS ruling was for the entire contraceptive mandate, not just those four. There are Roman Catholic owned companies taking advantage of the ruling now to eliminate coverage of all contraceptives. I did a thread about it...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

peace,
AB

a reply to: GokuVsSuperman0

Comparing forcing a company to pay for contraceptives for its employees to an employer forcing Sharia law on its employees is not nearly a reasonable comparison.

The main issue here, in my opinion, is why is the government forcing any company to buy insurance at all? The government needs to stay out of it, and let commerce take its natural course.

Years ago, companies competed against each other to obtain and keep quality employees by offering the best insurance plans they could. Back then, insurance was not nearly as expensive as it is now, so employers could do that.

The government forcing everyone, including employers, to buy a certain level of insurance only gives the insurance companies, drug companies, medical suppliers, etc., more incentive to charge whatever they want. A captive customer with few or no choices ends up paying what they are told to pay. The main one making out by the forced contraceptive mandate is the drug companies.

If commerce took its natural course, and employers wanted to attract qualified women who demand contraceptive cover, then they would likely cover it. If an employer chose not to offer it, and women chose not to work there, then... that is their choice.

The mandates in the entire mess of this health care plan are only going to ruin our economy and force companies out of business.

this ruling just made every company be able to control whether or not female workers can have access to contraceptives in their health care plan.


This is a boldfaced lie.

HL pays for twelve contraceptives.
HL did not want to pay for the abortificants.
The ruling does NOT make every company able to control...

originally posted by: spirited75
this ruling just made every company be able to control whether or not female workers can have access to contraceptives in their health care plan.


This is a boldfaced lie.

HL pays for twelve contraceptives.
HL did not want to pay for the abortificants.
The ruling does NOT make every company able to control...

Apparently, you listen to the talking heads.

And the "abortificants" aren't, according to science. Hobby Lobby chooses to believe they are.

Try this: www.abovetopsecret.com...

a reply to: KeliOnyx

I wish I could give your post 1000 stars.

I think it sums up this whole issue very nicely.

a reply to: Annee

if the "contraceptive" causes a fertilized egg to be destroyed, then that is an abortion.

You do not have to believe that nor does your religion, science, have to find that to be true. According to Christian belief life begins at conception, so destruction of a fertilized egg is an abortion.

a reply to: BlueAjah

The main issue here, in my opinion, is why is the government forcing any company to buy insurance at all? The government needs to stay out of it, and let commerce take its natural course.

Bingo!

This ruling has changed the argument from how we can be rid of the law, to how to it will be implemented. It nails the coffin shut on any hope that it will be repealed. But then as much as I applaud any decision that shoots holes in the ACA, I do worry that it may set a dangerous precedent. The Op has legitimate concerns.

I do disagree with those who say Hobby Lobby is forcing their religion on others. From what I understand they're not saying you can't have an abortion or take the morning after bill, just that they're not going to pay for it. And I'm not buying the argument that due to this decision women everywhere will be forced to go without birth control. Birth control in this country is cheap, go down to any Planned Parenthood and they're practically giving the stuff away.

originally posted by: GokuVsSuperman0
a reply to: NthOther

I didn't say any of that lol. Where are you getting this from?...Christians shouldn't be lifted higher than other religions and no company should be able to force their religious views onto your personal health care plan.

no one should charge me more or refuse to insure me because i smoke. but they do. i'm 60 and have not had 1 smoking related illness in my life.

muslim companies should love the ruling. they have stricter morals on sex than christians.

originally posted by: GokuVsSuperman0
a reply to: NthOther

Again where are you getting this from?...an owner with religious values can reflect those values in the way he runs his company. But he's not a king, he can't demand that his subjects follow the same religion. More than half the US is women, this ruling just made every company be able to control whether or not female workers can have access to contraceptives in their health care plan. Whether the owner is Christian or not, it would be foolish for a company to not save the money and so women across the country will soon not be able to have access to contraceptives, whether they're religious or not.
PS: No one wants to do business in the US because it costs too much, not whatever fairy tale reason you were thinking of.

obama made everyone do it. (read king)
i didn't know every woman in the US worked for hobby lobby!

and good thing the pharmacies aren't owned by any christians, eh?
that's where you can buy contraception, right? like men's rooms, planned parenthood, the underground black market, mexico, friend of a friend, san fran, amazon.com, craigs list and e-bay!
ask susan fluck.

i guess the women better stock up now!

originally posted by: links234
a reply to: NthOther

I think that's the biggest problem with the SCOTUS ruling. Only Christians can hold these views. Only closely held companies can hold these views.

The SCOTUS ruling doesn't apply to Muslims, atheists, Jews or anyone else of faith (or lack thereof). It also doesn't apply to anyone who doesn't own a corporation or who owns a corporation that's not 'closely held'. SCOTUS has said that the owners of Hobby Lobby are special. Only wealthy Christians can defy the mandate. Everyone else has to comply.

why the hell would atheists want the pill?

oh, they just want abortions, i get it.

a reply to: Echo007 Why?
First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out--
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out--
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out--
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me--and there was no one left to speak for me.

This is just a step to giving corporation more rights than that individual.

originally posted by: retiredTxn

originally posted by: links234
a reply to: NthOther

I think that's the biggest problem with the SCOTUS ruling. Only Christians can hold these views. Only closely held companies can hold these views.

The SCOTUS ruling doesn't apply to Muslims, atheists, Jews or anyone else of faith (or lack thereof). It also doesn't apply to anyone who doesn't own a corporation or who owns a corporation that's not 'closely held'. SCOTUS has said that the owners of Hobby Lobby are special. Only wealthy Christians can defy the mandate. Everyone else has to comply.

I might be mistaken, but I don't recall any Muslims, atheists, Jews, or anyone else of faith, or lack thereof, filing a lawsuit against the contraception mandate. Anyone of these groups could have tried to join with Hobby Lobby, or filed a lawsuit regarding their interests. Hobby Lobby is not special. ALL closely held corporations can utilize this ruling. If this ruling doesn't fit their agenda or need, file a lawsuit and fight it all the way to the SCOTUS. I feel it's a waste of money to be required to contraceptive coverage to my wife and I. She can't have kids anymore, and I obviously don't need it. My older kids will not need it anymore, as they have had all the kids they want and have fixed the problem. My two youngest, 3 yr old boys, don't need it. But that dadburn mandate means we are covered, and pay for it, but will never use it.

now.org...

The following is a list of plaintiffs in the 100 cases that have been filed in opposition to the birth control mandate in the Affordable Care Act.

American Family Association
American MFG Co
American Pulverizer Co
Annex Medical
Autocam Corp
Ave Maria School of Law
Ave Maria University
Barron Industries
Beckwith Electric Co
Belmont Abbey College
Bick Holdings, Inc.
Cherry Creek Mortgage Co
CNS Ministries
Colorado Christian University
Conestoga Wood Specialities Corp
Continuum Health Partnership/Management
Criswell College
Doboszenski & Sons
Dordt College
Dr. James Dobson’s Family Talk
East Texas Baptist University
Eden Foods
Encompass, Develop, Design & Construct LLC
Eternal Word Television Network Inc.
Fellowship of Catholic University
Feltl & Co., Inc.
Franciscan University of Steubenville
Freshway Foods
Gilardi
Grace College and Seminary
Grote Industries
Hart electric LLC
Hastings Automotive
Hercules Industries Inc.
Hobby Lobby
Holland Chevrolet
Infrastructure Alternatives
Johnson Welded Products
Korte & Luitjohan Contractors
Liberty University
Lindsay Rappaport and Postel LLC
Little Sisters of the Poor
Louisiana College
M&N Plastics
Mersino Management Company
Michigan Catholic Conference
MK Chambers Company
O’Brien Industrial Holdings
Ozinga
Paul Wieland
Priests for Life
QC Group Inc.
Randy Reed Automotives
Reaching Souls International
Right to Life Michigan
Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Atlanta
Roman Catholic Archdiocese of New York
Roman Catholic Archdiocese of St. Louis
Roman Catholic Diocese of Beaumont
Roman Catholic Diocese of Biloxi
Roman Catholic Diocese of Cheyenne
Roman Catholic Diocese of Dallas
Roman Catholic Diocese of Erie
Roman Catholic Diocese of Fort Worth
Roman Catholic Diocese of Fort-Wayne – South Bend
Roman Catholic Diocese of Nashville
Roman Catholic Diocese of Pittsburgh
School of the Ozarks
Seneca Hardwood
Sharpe Holdings, Inc.
Sioux Chief MFG Co
SMA LLC
Southern Nazarene University
The Most Reverend Thomas Wenski
Tonn and Blank Construction
Trijicon, Inc. (AKA Bindon)
Triune Health Group
Tyndale House
University of Notre Dame
Weingartz Supply Co
Wheaton College (Wheaton, IL)
Willis & Willis PLC
WLH Enterprises
Zumbiel

these are the cases against the mandate.

compiled by NOW. national organization OF women.

a reply to: DirtyD
I am so sick of people saying go to planned parenthood. Now, I am not in need of birth control, but if I was I couldn't get access to it. I can't afford a Dr.s visit, and there isn't a planned parenthood withing 200 miles of me, and I am in the U.S.

originally posted by: calstorm
a reply to: DirtyD
I am so sick of people saying go to planned parenthood. Now, I am not in need of birth control, but if I was I couldn't get access to it. I can't afford a Dr.s visit, and there isn't a planned parenthood withing 200 miles of me, and I am in the U.S.

Even if you're not in range of a Planned Parenthood, the morning after pill is cheap, and over the counter, so no need to go see a doctor.

Plan B One-Step costs about $50, and the generic versions, Next Choice One Dose and My Way, range from $20 to $35.

"This is a significant leap forward in obtaining full, over-the-counter status for emergency contraception, and we commend the FDA for this decision," said Jessica Arons, president and CEO of the Reproductive Health Technologies Project. "Everyone deserves a second chance to get it right.

Read Latest Breaking News from Newsmax.com www.newsmax.com...
Urgent: Should Obamacare Be Repealed? Vote Here Now!

FDA Clears Path For Teens to Buy Cheaper 'Morning After' Pill

ETA: Even with a decent health plan, my deductible on brand name drugs is $50, so even though my stated benefits cover the cost of birth control (specifically the morning after pill), they don't cover the actual cost since it is equal to my deductible. Generic costs $19, so on the high end my $524/month premium saves we a whopping $16 on birth control. Woo-Hoo!

originally posted by: retiredTxn
I feel it's a waste of money to be required to contraceptive coverage to my wife and I. She can't have kids anymore, and I obviously don't need it.

I'll never need a prostate exam, but it's covered. There are MANY things I disagree with or don't need that I pay for. We don't have kids, but I fund schools. I don't support the military industrial machine, but I pay for it... You get the idea. It's called living in a society with other people who have a variety of needs. NO ONE pays for only what they need, want or use.

a reply to: spirited75

According to Christian belief life begins at conception, so destruction of a fertilized egg is an abortion.

Wrong! That's "New Age Christian" propaganda and not a traditional Christian or biblical view. Historically, the Bible says life begins at first breath.

Genesis 2:7
Then the LORD God formed a man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.

Job 33:4-
The spirit of God has made me, and the breath of the Almighty gives me life.

Ezekiel 37: 5&6
Thus says the Lord God to these bones: Behold, I will cause breath to enter you, and you shall live. And I shall lay sinews upon you, and will cause flesh to come upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and you shall live; and you shall know that I am the Lord.”

Furthermore, there are countless sections of biblical scriptures that promote abortion.

a reply to: windword

wrong!!

countless sections of biblical scriptures that promote abortion.

start listing them, i will count, because i know of none.

originally posted by: calstorm
a reply to: DirtyD
I am so sick of people saying go to planned parenthood. Now, I am not in need of birth control, but if I was I couldn't get access to it. I can't afford a Dr.s visit, and there isn't a planned parenthood withing 200 miles of me, and I am in the U.S.

I'd have to ask: Why is there no Planned Parenthood within 200 miles of you?

Are you in a state that has forced closure of these facilities?