Mental health care practitioners manipulate for Money - It's a SCAM

Your shrink Can and Will manipulate you - for money. It happened to me this last week.

I got a lil too drunk on the 4th of July and got into a fight with my best friend. I blacked out and hit my friend - something I otherwise would never do in a million years - this you see because my best friend of 31 years has no arms.. he was born this way.

Now I do not drink everyday and I almost never drink more than a 6 pack throughout the course of a whole day when i do drink which is rarely. (I may drink on holidays or perhaps while watching a sports game which i believe is normal, but I do not try to drink to get drunk) I had been losing weight due to dieting to lose a big belly I had for the last year. I went from 138 lbs to 109 lbs (I'm 5'3) I only had about 8 beers but did not know with my lost weight the beer would hit me so hard. We got loud and the cops were called. I was not charged with any crime but because I was drunk and hit my friend they sent me to a mental health clinic for 72 hours just to be sure I was not a threat to myself or others. This was fine with me because I was horrified at how I had treated my best friend. ( I didn't hurt my friend badly and he has forgiven me, knowing it was the booze that made me act the way I did) Normally I'm a really nice guy as anyone who knows me will tell you.

In my drunken state I simply asked the cops not to beat me (they said they would not) - because you know ATS that does happen for no good reason. The nurse at the hospital told the mental health clinic they were going to send me to that I had "paranoia issues thinking cops were out to harm me" This is way stretching the truth of what and how the conversation happened.

Anyway at the mental health clinic I talked to many doctors but the psychiatrist kept saying odd things that didn't add up. He wanted to verify my story with my girlfriend which I said was fine. He said someone would have me sign a paper to have a conference call with my girlfriend and i said that was fine. No one came with papers for me to sign. A few days later after they had seen how I behaved and saw that I was no threat to myself or others (it was time to be discharged) he kept trying to put words in my mouth. He said his aide had talked to my girlfriend and our stories didn't match. He said she told them I drink frequently. He had discharge papers drawn up with follow up after care instructions at another facility (this was voluntary if I choose to do it) that said I had "Alcohol dependency issues" as well as "cannabis abuse" - I had admitted i smoked a little pot on occasion but also infrequently which is true. A copy of this was sent to the facility they wanted me to voluntarily go to. I was aghast they were trying to manipulate me this way.

I talked to one of the nurses about this because she was really nice and down to earth. She told me they do this kind of thing all the time because mental health practitioners are paid way more by the insurance companies than are doctors that prescribe pain medicine. They actually want to catch you admitting something they can keep you for - even if it's all made up. (they record Everything you say and do while your there.) This is because people with mental problems (of which I have none) will stop taking the meds and wind up right back in the clinic - it's a revolving door. The pain med doctors cant do this - if you choose not to take your meds, well you just go home and stay in pain.. no big deal.

My girlfriend is adamant that no one talked to her at all the whole time - nor could they have in my estimation because they did not have me sign any papers for permission for the call.

So we have the ER nurse trying to manipulate me saying I was paranoid and the clinic psychiatrist using words like dependance and abuse of which there were none. (even the staff and medical doctors saw no evidence of this) They were lying through their teeth and they know it. Needless to say I choose not to go to this facility, nor do I feel I need to -

but then there is here a catch 22 - if they heard me tell of these things they can say I am "in denial" or "paranoid" - you see, they can and will use anything they can against you - all for money.

Now I was the only one there that I know of that does not have any mental illness. I am not on any meds for anything nor have I been diagnosed as an alcoholic. In the clinic I met some really troubled people who really need serious care, unlike myself. My heart goes out to these people because they may not have the ability like I did to see through the psychiatrist manipulation.

Best advise I can give you is be honest if you are in such a situation and tell the truth - because you may really need serious help (some folks stop taking the meds they really do need) but if your like me, don't trust them. Don't give them an inch because they will take a mile and you may be worse off for it.

a reply to: JohnPhoenix

F&S John.
I find the biggest mistake of my life was asking the government for
help with a personal problem needing definition by a megalomaniac.
It was talked down later, but cash cows don't see any color but green.

Titty humping Buddha...you hit a friend that had no arms. You owe this person a free kick to the head...your head...just to be clear. I'd leave the shrink alone.

I would never ever go to a psychiatrist.

They will get you on meds and then you get worse as they 'fix' you. Yea, fix you all right!

If I needed help I would go to a Psychologist and if I needed meds, the Psychologist can liaise with my Doctor.

You really want to stay away from those that work in Government run facilities because they get pain by the visit. They will try to string you out for as many visits as they can get.

Some doctors are the same. They ask you to come back in a week. Why? If the prescription does not work I would return but if I get better, why go back?

P

I think it's important to note that this is US-based psychiatrists, where the entire medical establishment is geared around making as much money as possible from sick people.

In the UK, psychiatrists and mental healthcare professionals are absolutely fantastic, completely focussed on helping patients in need get the help they need and make improvements in their lives.

Nobody gets treatment they don't genuinely need. And if you're in the UK and think you might have a mental health problem, absolutely go to your doctor and get help, because the help that is available is absolutely brilliant.

originally posted by: skunkape23
Titty humping Buddha...you hit a friend that had no arms. You owe this person a free kick to the head...your head...just to be clear. I'd leave the shrink alone.

Believe me, I'm kicking myself in the head. I had never done anything like this before and never thought anything like that would or could happen. I know was alcohol induced while my body was in a weakened state. I can beat myself up about it till the cows come home but the doctors don't want me to do that either.. it's unproductive. They tell me it was an accident and that I need to forgive myself - something that's not easy to do. My friend has forgiven me so they tell me to forgive myself and let it go, leave it in the past where it belongs. I'm struggling with that because I do care very much about my friend and how the alcohol made me act.

I don't get any kicks spilling my guts honestly to the entire ATS forum. This thread took great personal courage to write but I feel it needed to be done so others could benefit from this information.

originally posted by: Painterz
I think it's important to note that this is US-based psychiatrists, where the entire medical establishment is geared around making as much money as possible from sick people.

I believe you. I have also heard that physical health care in the UK and many other places around the world are also very different than how it's done in the USA. It's very sad what people will do for money.

The Navy shrinks gave me the old alcohol dependent diagnosis which has more or less prevented me from finding meaningful work over the last 5 years. Not many people are willing to hire someone with 'alcohol re-hab failure' on their DD-214. Those who know me best, know this diagnosis is a complete crock of crap. The 12 step program may work from some with serious dependency issues but I think those kind of programs are a bit of a cult, it just upsets me that I had to be subjected to all of it and then pretend to be with the 'program'.

Most people I know who have been evaluated for addiction feel that the shrink pressures them into accepting a bogus diagnosis. They tried that game with me, I never believed them, unfortunately any potential employer will. At least I still have some people in my life who believe in me.

Psychiatry should be mostly about identifying conflicts between the subconscious and conscious mind, as that is where the problem lies in my opinion. One is usually sick long before they have symptoms. Take anxiety, substance abuse, etc...They are often times symptoms of some underlying psychological problem, instead of being the problem themselves. Instead of feeding people drugs for their issues the psychiatrist should take the time and expend the energy required to get to the bottom of the real problems. Alleviation of symptoms seems to be common practice in the psychological field, which is a shame considering you are often only masking the problem.

Of course there truly can be issues where a patient needs to be on medication, but this should only be done after other methods have been exhausted. This is the problem as I have come to understand it anyway. Going back to the roots of psychology it is obvious that earlier physicians had a better grasp of the human mind than today's practitioners. Part of the problem stems from the fact that true psychotherapy requires a certain level of commitment from the doctor. Many are not willing to invest what is required for truly healing their patients. It is about changing one's world view often times, and the patient must sense that the therapist is willing to take the journey of self-improvement along with them. Again, my opinion, but I think I am correct.

Anyway, I can completely understand why they would do what you describe. So much is dictated by money nowadays, and the importance of money far surpasses even common human decency. Profit is not a motive in itself, rather it is the potential energy represented by that money that is intoxicating in my opinion.

Gotta love the pharmaceutical industry -

The DSM is published by the American Psychiatric Association, and according to the journal PLOS Medicine, “69% of the DSM-5 task force members report having ties to the pharmaceutical industry.” The corruption of the APA by Big Pharma is nothing new. In 2008, the New York Times reported the following about APA: “In 2006, the latest year for which numbers are available, the drug industry accounted for about 30 percent of the association's $62.5 million in financing.”

“When Insel states that the disorders haven’t been validated,” Whitaker points out, “he is stating that the entire edifice that modern psychiatry is built upon is flawed, and unsupported by science... If the public loses faith in the DSM, and comes to see it as unscientific, then psychiatry has a real credibility problem on its hands.”

If the public sees it is flawed?!?! Well,that won't happen because they make way too much money drugging and hypnotizing the masses so they are unable to see this. The system is perfect!



www.alternet.org...

a reply to: JohnPhoenix

1. Psychiatrists prescribing meds can get, imho, too hefty a payments from the government and/or insurance companies for a 30 min or less evaluation. Sheesh. And then ditto for 10 min followup. I'm not a fan of that.

2. I was not with you in your situation. Some of it does sound a bit overdone on the part of officialdom.

3. HOWEVER, JUST FROM WHAT YOU'VE TOLD us in this thread . . . and per my year working at the clinic the retired head of the Navy Long Beach alcohol center (that treated Betty Ford)--from my work at the clinic he started up . . . I'd say you have a significant alcohol problem.

4. i.e. you DO have some alcohol dependency issues that you are likely in some degree of denial over.

5. 8 beers a day and pretending that's not a problem is DENIAL.

6. Personally, I've never known anyone who drank 3 or more beers/shots/glasses of wine PER DAY to stay at a low level WITHOUT A SIGNIFICANT ALCOHOL PROBLEM.

7. The famous priest who did the "chalk talks" long ago noted once that he knew someone who was only drunk 3 times--and he had a serious alcohol problem.

The first time [I may have the sequence and specifics a bit off but the gist is accurate] he got drunk, he lost his driver's license.

The 2nd time he got drunk, he lost his job.

The 3rd time he got drunk, he lost his freedom and concluded in prison, accurately, that he had an alcohol problem.

8. You hit a BEST FRIEND who was born without arms . . . BECAUSE OF ALCOHOL

AND STILL YOU ARE DEFENDING YOUR 8 BEERS IN ONE DAY AS NO PROBLEM. THAT IN ITSELF IS SERIOUS EVIDENCE OF SERIOUS DENIAL.

9. IF you are capable of doing that to your best friend, you are quite plausibly, likely capable of killing a spouse or a child or anyone else because you had 8 beers or 10 or 12 or whatever.

10. IF you really want the truth about the effects of alcohol . . . take a Mavis Beacon Typing test without any alcohol. Drink a can of beer. Take the identical test again. Drink another beer. Take the identical test again. Drink another beer. Take the identical test again . . . through 8 beers and see if you can make it--taking the same test each time. Notice the deterioration of your ability with each test and each additional can of beer.

11. THE FIRST CAN OF BEER HAS ALREADY STARTED TO ANESTHETIZE--PUT TO SLEEP 2 CRITICAL PARTS OF YOUR FUNCTIONING:

(A) YOUR BRAIN'S JUDGMENT CENTER that tells you how close is too close when driving; that tells you how much is too much, alcohol, or anger, or physical aggression etc.

(B) Your fine motor coordination.

12. 3 drinks/cans of beer within too short a time period have significantly altered both areas of functioning into a DYSFUNCTIONAL STATUS.

13. It does NOT MATTER that it involved a sports event. "NORMAL" is not necessarily healthy or functional or even legal. And "normal" for someone in any significant degree of denial is likely very dysfunctional and destructive.

14. I've seen through counseling too many individuals and families with alcohol problems the HORRIFIC DESTRUCTIVENESS it entails.

15. I know that even some alcohol professionals have thought my comments about 3 or more drinks in 24 hours has always--in my experience with people, observing them and their lives and families up close and personal--sooner or later it progressed to much more than 3 and their family lives were destroyed.

16. Maybe it took several months or several years or a decade but it always happened.

17. In some very rare cases--I can think of maybe one or two only--I've seen folks cut back to 1 drink in 24 hours VERY STRICTLY AND RIGIDLY and manage to cope alright--particularly if it was say a glass of wine just before bedtime.

18. But I can't recall ever seeing anyone who drank 3 or more in 24 hours CONTINUE TO KEEP IT STRICTLY TO ONLY 3. IT ALWAYS PROGRESSED TO MUCH MORE THAN THAT.

19. Imho, you DO NEED A SERIOUS EVALUATION BY A FAIRLY NO-NONSENSE ALCOHOLISM CENTER. You owe to yourself and to those who love you--and certainly to your armless friend.

a reply to: pheonix358

Funny MY VA care is good except for them dropping my school 3 weeks ago.
Psychiatrist is great I can sleep now and with with weed I can distract my anger and work on paintings. I am in critical care for my lungs and also the PTSD.

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
a reply to: pheonix358

Funny MY VA care is good except for them dropping my school 3 weeks ago.
Psychiatrist is great I can sleep now and with with weed I can distract my anger and work on paintings. I am in critical care for my lungs and also the PTSD.

I am happy that you found a good one. There are good and bad ones out there.

Many still want whats best for the patient but a great many think more about the $$$.

PTSD is a bitch, glad you are in a State where you can get the Weed that helps. I am not that lucky.

P

a reply to: BO XIAN

Lol at number 6.

Not drank with many Brits have you?.

a reply to: BO XIAN

Come now, you need some new friends that can party.

Reading between the lines perhaps you live somewhere where drinking is a bit of a no no.

18. But I can't recall ever seeing anyone who drank 3 or more in 24 hours CONTINUE TO KEEP IT STRICTLY TO ONLY 3. IT ALWAYS PROGRESSED TO MUCH MORE THAN THAT.

As I said, you need to mix a bit more with social drinkers. 3 in 24 hours is nothing to worry about at all. Many people can be at this level without it being a problem.

P

a reply to: boymonkey74

Big California cities have plenty of drinking party-ers.

I've heard all the rationalizations ad nauseum and out the kazoo.

I'm not aware that Brits human physiologies are that different than Americans.

A 'tolerance' for alcohol is not a GOOD sign.

It is an indication of a genetic predisposition toward alcoholism.

It's actually quite . . . interesting, educational . . . to go to a bar or a rowdy cocktail party and listen stone cold sober.

Most folks with more than 3 drinks are saying things that are not that sharp.

And virtually no one is listening. They are merely waiting for their chance to blather fairly incoherently with a shallow surface semblance of rationality.

imho, life is plenty complex. I NEED all my faculties to handle said complexities--particularly in relationships.

And if I'm going to have FUN . . . I want to be fully aware of THE FUN!

Being partially anetsthetized and pretending to have fun while being too timid, inadequate, wimpy etc. TO FACE RELATIONSHIPS without anesthesia . . . is . . . a really poor situation . . . kind of pathetic, actually.

The only difference between alcohol and the ether used to do surgery . . . where the person is taken 'under' to a point just above death . . . the only difference between ether and alcohol is one water molecule.

Besides . . . I knew for certain that posting that post would bring out all the tons of rationalizations that I've heard for decades.
.

a reply to: pheonix358

As I said, you need to mix a bit more with social drinkers. 3 in 24 hours is nothing to worry about at all. Many people can be at this level without it being a problem.

Supposedly, theoretically, it SHOULD BE POSSIBLE.

I've just never OBSERVED IT in 60+ years with 3,000+ students; many 100's of counseling clients and a number of church congregations--across 2 continents and 6+ large cities.

Regardless, if folks will strictly, rigidly limit their alcohol intake to 2 or less per 24 hours, they should never have an alcohol problem--unless they have a genetic predisposition to it and in the midst of a crisis go on a personal rule-breaking stem-winder where they do themselves and/or someone else great damage.

I've been around a long time folks . . . done a fair amount of alcoholism counseling . . . I'm not exactly ignorant on the topic though I am likely out of date on the latest research.

a reply to: BO XIAN

Actually genetically us European s are genetically better at drinking than some.
We used to brew our water instead of boiling it.
In our blood is booze even when I ran a pub I drank ten or so pints a day throughout the day for quality control and I have never been addicted nor effected me in a bad way
.
Not saying it doesn't effect folk bad but nostly acholohic s drink the top shelf stuff.
The op is no way an alcoholic in my view anyhow.

a reply to: BO XIAN

Howdy,
Just to clarify, do you mean to imply that drinking something like 3 beers any day is alcohol dependence, or drinking 3 beers everyday? Now, I understand the side of EVERYDAY and how it relates to DEPENDENCE. But if you mean drinking 8 beers in a day (as an isolated incident) is alcohol dependence, well, I've got to disagree with that. That sounds more like a party... A superbowl get together with friends... A fourth of July cookout/pool party. Sure, doing that everyday (drinking 8 beers) likely indicates a problem (or you're a taste tester/brewmaster or something...), but can you honestly say that about an isolated incident?
Regards,
Hydeman.

a reply to: hydeman11

Yeah.

Sorry. It's considered binge drinking and a definite sign of alcoholism.

It would be good if some folks who've been there and done that would come on the thread and comment from their drinking vs their stopping drinking histories.