Let's be honest about political correctness

a reply to: neo96
Hello neo, I think that most of us on the left are not as thin-skinned as you might think. The only egg shells that we all walk on around here are those that would bring the heavy hand of BIG ATS Brother. I know that you won't hold back to protect my delicate sensibilities. I think that there is too much moaning and stuck-pig squealing on both sides. I would like to ask you a question, though. Do you admit that you practice PC?

a reply to: Diderot

I have NEVER heard or seen a conservative admit that, at times, they are also PC.

a reply to: theantediluvian
You hit the PC nail right on the head! Attitudes and behavior that were once accepted and even dominant are today recognized by everyone as unacceptable. Left and right, we all hold sacred truths that are not evident to all. When we argue over who and what is correct, that becomes a conflict of PC. We all practice PC because we argue over what is right or wrong.

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

I think you hit the nail firmly on the head.

Common courtesy and a willingness to conduct ourselves in a certain manner is all too often considered to be PCness. If we want to do or say things outside of that unwritten code of conduct, you must be willing to "own it", as you said, and take responsibility for it.

I have found that many of those who cry about PCness are trying to divert attention from their ignorance, hatred or bigotry.

a reply to: kruphix
If I were to say that we should return to segregation and if I call for a ban of all race mixing, then I believe everyone here would agree that my proposition was politically incorrect. My right to say this would be protected under the 1st Amendment. (By the way, I can't imagine anything that I would disagree more with than the above hypothetical)
Your second question has stumped me; I really can't think of something I agree with that I would also consider to be non-PC. I guess that is because I am a tree-hugging liberal, and I basically reject as illegitimate or flawed that which I determine to be politically incorrect. But please, give me a suggestion and I'll tell you what I think.

I actually think every social group has it's own version of PC.

I think the liberal version is probably the most well known because it is typically controlled by the youth. As we all know, the "youth" demographic is usually the most influential on popular culture and corporate policy because they are the gatekeepers of the market, new products and new ideas. We also know that this particular P.C set is used to publicly attack people who express themselves outside of the liberal P.C standard.

Conservatives have their own version, but like everything about conservatism they are unable to admit it to themselves. The term R.I.N.O is often times used to chastise individual conservatives who break from the pack and champion their own ideas. This is how the GOP and conservative machine controls their own people and maintains a united front. Conservatives also have code language that is used to train the pack and reward politicians who use the code and adavance the singular agenda.This version of P.C is usually used to police internal thoughts and notions.

Conservatives have yet another mechanism that is very much like P.C. This is the idea that EVERYTHING that does not fall into a SANCTIONED conservative policy is part of a grand liberal plot. In this case conservatives have been trained to shut off their thinking and assume communism, P.C, Anti Americanism, Pro terrorism or anything that quickly distorts the information and puts the other person on the defensive . The proof is all around, science is in question,academia is in question, even facts are considered unAmerican. From evolution to the environment, it seems that anything that questions the making of money in one arena or another is a liberal plot to destroy America.

I actually think the conservative version is more complex because it is control by the party and they can't admit to anything, again another part of the conservative code.

Double penatration

a reply to: Beach Bum
Dear BB, PCBS sounds like a TV station in Pittsburgh. Seriously though, I give you credit for seeing it on both sides. I have a question for you and others. In the never-ending battle between left and right, which side do you suspect says, prints, and broadcasts the term "PC" more often? You can probably guess what my answer would be.

a reply to: spurgeonatorsrevenge
I think that you did a great job, especially regarding the conservative mindset.
I agree that every group has its own version of PC. There are also conflicting ideas of PC within groups. For instance
some progressives focus on identity politics that can be exclusionary and others focus mainly on multiculturalism and miscegenation.

a reply to: Diderot

Great OP. It's always confusing to me when somebody is offended by my offense to their racism. It's like:



When I look at places on our planet where brutal and terrible things happen because of intolerance and ignorance, I wonder why. One of the reasons why is that it is largely acceptable for them to do so there. When I see the differences between those places and where I live (a PC 1st world nation), I can't help but attribute some of the difference to our political correctness and vigilance towards anything that might violate the public consensus of tolerance.

It's a safety net. A sometimes annoying and often abused safety net but a very important one. I'd rather argue with somebody when they say stupid things like "I'm not racist but..." than read about lynchings. We lived in an extremely hateful and racist environment only decades ago and political correctness is one of the things that have filled the vacuum as it decreased. It's not a terrible trade-off.

So when somebody is offended by my political correctness, I hold ZERO empathy for them.

a reply to: Diderot

Hello neo, I think that most of us on the left are not as thin-skinned as you might think.

Most on the left say things far worse.

It is not only the word but the intent behind it.

I remember back in the day of Stick, and Stones. May break my bones, but words will never harm me.

That was replaced with PC.

Do you admit that you practice PC?

Pretty much have to. As it is required by ATS terms and conditions.


To add:

Today it is totally 'politically correct' to called people stupid (See the Palin Thread).

But the idea of PC was to stop people from saying things that hurt someone else's feelings.

PC is a joke.

To where socially acceptable slurs are now acceptable.

originally posted by: Diderot
a reply to: kruphix
If I were to say that we should return to segregation and if I call for a ban of all race mixing, then I believe everyone here would agree that my proposition was politically incorrect. My right to say this would be protected under the 1st Amendment. (By the way, I can't imagine anything that I would disagree more with than the above hypothetical)
Your second question has stumped me; I really can't think of something I agree with that I would also consider to be non-PC. I guess that is because I am a tree-hugging liberal, and I basically reject as illegitimate or flawed that which I determine to be politically incorrect. But please, give me a suggestion and I'll tell you what I think.

I'm a tree hugging liberal as well...my question was to those that say that PC is BS.

I'm trying to understand what opinions they want to voice publicly that are considered politically incorrect.

Anything that they could come up with would show an ugly side of them, and I think that is why none of them have replied to me.

What comes down to, I believe, is that certain people want to speak their outdated views without being judged as outdated. They want to call people fags, they want to call people the N word, they want to openly tell people to go back where they came from....all without them being told that their viewpoints are outdated and flat out wrong in today's society.

But I have yet to see anyone respond to my question...I just want to know what they want to be able to say, but PC is preventing them from doing so.

originally posted by: kruphix

originally posted by: Diderot
a reply to: kruphix
If I were to say that we should return to segregation and if I call for a ban of all race mixing, then I believe everyone here would agree that my proposition was politically incorrect. My right to say this would be protected under the 1st Amendment. (By the way, I can't imagine anything that I would disagree more with than the above hypothetical)
Your second question has stumped me; I really can't think of something I agree with that I would also consider to be non-PC. I guess that is because I am a tree-hugging liberal, and I basically reject as illegitimate or flawed that which I determine to be politically incorrect. But please, give me a suggestion and I'll tell you what I think.

I'm a tree hugging liberal as well...my question was to those that say that PC is BS.

I'm trying to understand what opinions they want to voice publicly that are considered politically incorrect.

Anything that they could come up with would show an ugly side of them, and I think that is why none of them have replied to me.

What comes down to, I believe, is that certain people want to speak their outdated views without being judged as outdated. They want to call people fags, they want to call people the N word, they want to openly tell people to go back where they came from....all without them being told that their viewpoints are outdated and flat out wrong in today's society.

But I have yet to see anyone respond to my question...I just want to know what they want to be able to say, but PC is preventing them from doing so.

Very good points...

I am not sure what they are holding back, I think most of the time it is just expressing hatred, I do it myself..

I personally do not enjoy being PC and I think in many cases it damages communication between groups.

At the same time PC is also there to keep rhetoric from descending into pure hate speech, talks of violence and open persecution. I mean in some cases, PC saves people... This guy is LUCKY he understands what PC even if he disagrees with it... Even many conservatives would not of accepted what he was thinking, lucky indeed

a reply to: neo96

originally posted by: neo96
Pretty much have to. As it is required by ATS terms and conditions.

That's not true at all. ATS does not require we be politically correct. We have argued up and down about the most un-PC subjects and both sides have had their say. That's an EZ out for you.

While the left is usually PC about gays, minorities and immigrants, the right is usually PC about the military, Christians and Israel. The right (generally) does not like hearing insults against the military, so they stand up and say we should respect all military, just because they're military. They cringe and cry when Christians are insulted. And don't get me started on Israel. THAT'S how the right is PC.

Have you found yourself defending these groups or saying that the things people say about them are insulting?

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

That's not true at all.

Yeah it is.

While the left is usually PC about gays, minorities and immigrants

Usually ?

The left created the term. That is where the hypenated American name comes from.

God forbid Americans just be called Americans.

The right (generally) does not like hearing insults against the military, so they stand up and say we should respect all military, just because they're military.

Why should they ?

The military doesn't decide to go to war all on their own its CIVILIAN leadership does that.

And it is totally PC to trash talk the military.

Just like it is totally PC to trash talk Christians, and Isreal.

I honestly don't give a ratts snip about Israel.

All the animosity towards them on this board is lead by the NEOCONS under the PC term 'zionists'.

For crying out loud even with the creation of PC doesn't matter in the slightests.

Right wingers still get called every name in the book from:

Racist,facsist,homophobe,islamophobe,xenophobe, and EVERY other term they can come up with to INSULT anyone with a different thought.

PC is a joke.

Insulting people is TOTALLY acceptable.

Just can't insult anyone the left has labeled a GD 'victim'.

originally posted by: Diderot
My question to those on the right, is whether you admit that you are being just as PC as those on the left.

You're failing to consider the fact that there is a small but growing segment of us who honestly don't care what someone slurs us with. The accusation of being a bigot only carries as much personal weight as the accused allows it to. I know what I am and what I am not, and if someone's accustaion against me flies in the face of what I know I am all about... well, I really don't care enough to waste energy on the accusation.

That, to me, is the antithesis of political correctness and is what Freedom of speech is all about.

originally posted by: Diderot
Do you admit that you practice PC?

PC and decorum are two completely different animals. PC is decorum on steroids and is not required by ATS. Decorum, on the other hand, is common courtesy and mixed company level politeness and is required here.

originally posted by: neo96
Yeah it is.

Can you point out in the T&C where being politically incorrect is a violation? People here insult gays, minorities, immigrants, the military, Christians and Israel without violating T&C. It's done ALL the time.

Why should they ?

The military doesn't decide to go to war all on their own its CIVILIAN leadership does that.

And gays don't decide to be gay, minorities don't decide to be minorities, etc... Christians and the military DO decide to join their perspective groups. What does that have to do with anything? Point is, when you get upset about someone trash talking the military or Christians, you're being politically correct, by defending a group of people from a verbal assault.

And it is totally PC to trash talk the military.

Just like it is totally PC to trash talk Christians, and Isreal.

No, it's not. It's politically INcorrect to trash any of them. I'm not sure you know what the term means.

Right wingers still get called every name in the book from:

Racist,facsist,homophobe,islamophobe,xenophobe, and EVERY other term they can come up with to INSULT anyone with a different thought.

And the left get called their every name in the book as well (socialist, racist, fascist, pro-abortionists, godless, immoral, etc.). You're only seeing one side of the issue.

Insulting people is TOTALLY acceptable.

Of course it is. It's acceptable to insult anyone you want. But both sides will face consequences, whether it be disapproval or job loss.

Just can't insult anyone the left has labeled a GD 'victim'.

What do you mean, you "can't"??? It happens here every day. I could say the same about the military and Christians. Boo-hoo! I can't insult Christians, because the right has labeled them a "victim".

BS! Both sides CAN and DO sling insults that the other side is "sensitive" about. Both sides are "politically correct" about their chosen groups.

a reply to: neo96

You can insult anyone anytime you want to but just as you open your mouth so can others, you can let your opinions fall out of your mouth filter free (here within TCs) anytime, anywhere you like... no one is going to lock you away for it... BUT in what reality do you live in where you can do such but anyone that disagrees with you can't?

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

And gays don't decide to be gay

What way is it ?

Either their bedroom is no ones business or it is.

Some people need to stop throwing their bedrooms out in the public spot light.

minorities don't decide to be minorities,

Last time I checked minorities are not minorities any more. Which is the biggest problem with the LEFT and their nonstop demagoging the right how the right hates them.

If minorities withheld their votes the left wouldn't give two snips about them.

Christians and the military DO decide to join their perspective groups. What does that have to do with anything? Point is, when you get upset about someone trash talking the military or Christians, you're being politically correct, by defending a group of people from a verbal assault.

Wasn't aware that people actually gave a damn what I thought.

No, it's not. It's politically INcorrect to trash any of them. I'm not sure you know what the term means.

Sure do.

Here is the definition:

Political correctness Political correctness (adjectivally, politically correct; both forms commonly abbreviated to PC) is a contentious term that today commonly refers to enforced language, ideas, or policies that address perceived discrimination against political, social or economical groups ("protected classes").

en.wikipedia.org...

Key word there is perceived.

ALL politics is based on the PERCEPTION of reality.

The whole aim of practical politics to the DISPARAGE one side in favor of the other side.

Example, Hey' women,kids,minorities,gay. The right hates you' For whatever reason the left makes up at the time.

The left could care less about people. The only thing they care about is peoples votes.

AND YES.

The same could be said about the RIGHT.

Enter PC the latest weapon of mass distraction.