There are no angels.

Israel and Palestine... Again. Or is it still?

Three Israeli kids found dead. Murdered by persons presently unknown.

Later, a Palestinian kid found dead. Murdered by persons presently unknown.

...and the hatred flows, yet again.

But not just in Israel. But not just in Palestine.

But here on ATS, as well.

Armchair heroes demanding blood for blood.

Death to 'em all... They're all evil...

For thousands of years, literally... These folks have been slaughtering each other over resources. ...over religion. ...over many an other thing. Nothing new here.

Or is there?

What is new, or more recent, anyway...and rather disgusting, is the seeming glee that many of you seem to take in calling for the murder of which ever side you hate today. Blood for blood, you scream.

So caught up in your self-righteous fury that it completely escapes , and will continue to do so, your attention that the "other side" is just as guilty.

There are no angels in this conflict.

The only angels I see are the little kids being killed/maimed on both sides.

Still you prattle on, and on, about the evil whomever.

Then religion gets brought into it... As if that excuses it somehow... Really? How does it excuse anything of this nature? Those kids are still dead, and still maimed.

The Israelis are wrong. The Palestinians are wrong. Both. BOTH. BOTH!!!

They're all of them wrong. ...and will continue, by all appearances, to be wrong.

But you know what? They, at least, are honest in their hatred of each other.

Wrong-headed. Stupid. Foolish to the point of absurdity. All of those, and more... But honest.


What's your excuse? You with your smug self-righteous call for more blood? You, sitting in your computer chair on the other side of the world.

What's your excuse for hating that of which you know little to nothing?

You've never met, in all likelihood, an Israeli. Yet you color them all with the same brush.

You've never met, in all likelihood, a Palestinian. Yet you color them all with the same brush.

You know nothing of them, yet you presume to judge them. You?

You know nothing of them, yet you call for their blood? You?

I save a special loathing for you. You, you armchair warrior, who has never lived the lives that some of these people live. You dare?

Do the world a special favor, would you?

Shut the Hell up!! You aren't helping solve the problem. If anything, you're making it worse by your tacit, if not outright, approval of whichever side you're rooting for.

Yes, you read that right. Let me repeat it for you...



You aren't helping solve the problem. You're only helping to make it worse.


Get it through your thick skulls. There are no angels in this conflict. Only victims. Only murderers. ...and you, the fan of blood sports.

People need to understand that this is the oldest and ugliest family feud in the Book. There will be no resolving it until the End. And, the original progenitor who caused it is the father of both sides, their patriarch.

a reply to: seagull

We all have opinions.

Are you saying you don't want free speech, open discussion?

You're opinion is valid and I agree with what you said but not all members will agree with us.

I would rather engage a person with dialog than engage a country in war.

Yes there are angels in this conflict,evil angels,the lesser angels of our nature and a good serving of beelzebub and his demons too.

a reply to: seagull

Your title brought to mind a thought.

In a battle in Hell, do we care who's the winner?

SnF for a well deserved mirror.

a reply to: minusinfinity

Are you saying you don't want free speech, open discussion?

Didn't say a word about not sayin' it. I said that it disgusts me that people with little or no knowledge and/or experience dare to judge. Call for blood and death, with no fear of the repercussions of that call.

a reply to: seagull

I understand.

It's a nasty situation I don't understand most of it but I don't understand hate.

originally posted by: minusinfinity
Are you saying you don't want free speech, open discussion?



You're opinion is valid and I agree with what you said but not all members will agree with us.



I would rather engage a person with dialog than engage a country in war.

bullroar like:
"Kill them all"
"Death to the Zionists"
"Death to the Palestinians"
"Hope they retalliate and take out 3,000 more"
etc. is not "dialogue", it's being an ass. That's the type of unproductive bullcrap I'm seeing this OP speaking out against... not real dialogue on the issues.

a reply to: seagull

As you know seagull I have very much been a part of it.
Nothing infuriates more than keyboard warriors that have no idea of the REAL truth of a very complicated situation.

My worst nightmare is to pick up bits of kids again, is it possible to describe that ? ................................NO

Do most us know that feeling ?............................... NO thankfully

How many of us us have puked our guts up and still had to go back ? FEW..............................fortunately

My thanks for posting this thread.

Cody

S&F Thank you for putting words to the way I feel.

I have met Israelis, I have met Palestinians. I have not posted a comment because I believe neither side really wants to listen to the other, so I felt I would be wasting my time saying anything at all. Few seem to care about reality or experience, but simply make judgements based on media reporting.

a reply to: seagull







You are correct OP. There are no "angels", nor are there "demons" (also I starred and flagged you for spelling it right and not spelling it "angles"). There are only humans. And we humans have yet to figure out how to live in peace. You see, one truly does not actually own anything, land, houses, cars...these things pass to other humans when you die. No human is immortal, everyone dies, and nobody has taken anything with them when they died...these conflicts are therefore made obsolete by death. When are we ever going to learn.

originally posted by: AutOmatIc
nor are there "demons"

Oh yes there are. The political "Emperors". Knesset and Hamas. These bastards keep both peoples in a state of panic for their own ends. Ask any given Israeli or Palestinian about what they want and I'd wager my last dollar that it isn't what their prospective "governments" want.

It could simply be a couple of alphabet agencies doing it all for TPTB for all we know. Tensions are already so high that these people will react without logic or thought. My feeling is always ere on the side of peace. I would bet these young people whose deaths are being used for politics would not want more killing. I think people probably have more sense on the other side of this life no matter what you believe.

originally posted by: Metallicus
Tensions are already so high that these people will react without logic or thought.

That's just it. The PEOPLE just want to raise their kids in peace. It's not the "people". You've got "people" in Israel like Machsom Watch. An Israeli movement that keeps an eye on check points to see that things run properly. The people want peace. The governments want war.

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: AutOmatIc
nor are there "demons"

Oh yes there are. The political "Emperors". Knesset and Hamas. These bastards keep both peoples in a state of panic for their own ends. Ask any given Israeli or Palestinian about what they want and I'd wager my last dollar that it isn't what their prospective "governments" want.

I see what you did there. These people are still merely human. Evil humans perhaps, but human nonetheless. They will bleed if you cut them, they will die if you drop an atomic bomb on them...the same as you or I. They will all die eventually. And they will not rise from the dead, grow horns or leathery wings and continue to commit crimes against other humans. And you are correct, "any given Israeli or Palestinian" would most likely love to just live out their lives on this ball of dirt, and try to obtain happiness in their own way, just like you and I. But, until we humans on this planet find a way to rid ourselves of the humans that have an insatiable lust for power, domination, and violence, and start working together to unite humankind, we will continue to be plagued by such ridiculousness.

a reply to: intrepid

Ask any given Israeli or Palestinian about what they want and I'd wager my last dollar that it isn't what their prospective "governments" want.

No it isn't

All I wanted was peace to provide a better life for my kids, I may have been a bit of a cock eyed optimist, all my Palestinian friends and co-workers wanted was the same.

Not much to ask is it ? Or so you'd think.

One of my friends on ATS lives in Lebanon, as such she suffers the the Israeli overflights.

Yet we rise above it, I may have fought her husband, yet we rise above it.

But then we aren't keyboard warriors and we rise above it

If ATS is proof

There may just be hope

Cody

a reply to: cody599

Thanks cody. That is my belief. I think "people" just want to live their lives and get on with #. This crap from "above" is making it difficult on everyone there. Maybe the younger generation will make a positive move in the right direction. I mean, even Peres is looking antagonistic lately. Lose him and there is no other voice of reason in the Knesset.

I spent two years running a clinic in gaza .. seen and experienced what israelis do to people firsthand ..
took a bullet to the shoulder from an israeli when was patching up another israeli soldier in the street then got to experience firsthand israeli hospitality for three months till the japanese embassy stepped in. So yes Ive earned my right to speak out against the evil israel did and does .. will continue speaking out until every last israeli is put on trial for crimes against humanity and held to account for their actions.

originally posted by: Expat888
will continue speaking out until every last israeli is put on trial for crimes against humanity and held to account for their actions.

Are you talking about the people, or the government?

S&F. You have articulated what I have been trying to say on this site for years. The broad brush of hatred and vitriol from individuals that doesn't solve anything. Freedom of speech is one thing. Spouting ugliness against whole groups of people is another. ALL (fill in the blank) are evil, bloodthirsty, power-hungry, whatever and deserve to be wiped off the face of the Earth.

Thank you, and hopefully those individuals who are guilty of this will see this behavior in themselves as something to change. I doubt it, though.