Famous Cardiac Surgeon’s Stories of Near Death Experiences in Surgery

And yet no Dimethyltryptamine experiences have been able to accurately recall entire conversations held by unique beings in adjacent rooms, or describe events taking place half the world away, or describe to a "T" what small pieces of equipment looks like that is hidden from their view, or come back with knowledge only a deceased person would know - only to have it validated.

NDE's can do all of this.

a reply to: MentorsRiddle

from wiki

The traits of a classic NDE are as follows:

The notice of unpleasant sound or noise (claimed by R. Moody).[10]
A sense/awareness of being dead.[24][26]
A sense of peace, well-being and painlessness. Positive emotions. A sense of removal from the world.[24][26][27]
An out-of-body experience. A perception of one's body from an outside position. Sometimes observing doctors and nurses performing medical resuscitation efforts.[24][26][27][28]
A "tunnel experience". A sense of moving up, or through, a passageway or staircase.[24][26][28]
A rapid movement toward and/or sudden immersion in a powerful light. Communication with the light.[26][27]
An intense feeling of unconditional love and acceptance.[27]
Encountering "Beings of Light", "Beings dressed in white", or similar. Also, the possibility of being reunited with deceased loved ones.[24][27][28]
Receiving a life review.[24][26][27]
Receiving knowledge about one's life and the nature of the universe.[27]
Approaching a border,[26] or a decision by oneself or others to return to one's body, often accompanied by a reluctance to return.[24][27][28]
Connection to the cultural beliefs held by the individual, which seem to dictate the phenomena experienced in the NDE and the later

All of these apart from the conversations part are reported on Dimethyltryptamine. The experiences are so similar in every other respect that maybe the describing of the room or conversations part is just something that is unique to that situation and the effects of the drug.

originally posted by: PhoenixOD
a reply to: MentorsRiddle

All of these apart from the conversations part are reported on Dimethyltryptamine. The experiences are so similar in every other respect that maybe the describing of the room or conversations part is just something that is unique to that situation and the effects of the drug.

I think someone mentioned this, but I'd like you to find me two people who have taken DT that meet the following criteria:

1. Had an out-of-body experience, while their eyes were taped shut, and was able to accurately recall information that took place while away from his body which was later verified by an entire medical staff.

2. An atheist who had such a profound spiritual experience while on DT that they immediately converted to spiritualism after the trip was over.

Good luck.

originally posted by: PhoenixOD
a reply to: MentorsRiddle

from wiki

The traits of a classic NDE are as follows:

The notice of unpleasant sound or noise (claimed by R. Moody).[10]
A sense/awareness of being dead.[24][26]
A sense of peace, well-being and painlessness. Positive emotions. A sense of removal from the world.[24][26][27]
An out-of-body experience. A perception of one's body from an outside position. Sometimes observing doctors and nurses performing medical resuscitation efforts.[24][26][27][28]
A "tunnel experience". A sense of moving up, or through, a passageway or staircase.[24][26][28]
A rapid movement toward and/or sudden immersion in a powerful light. Communication with the light.[26][27]
An intense feeling of unconditional love and acceptance.[27]
Encountering "Beings of Light", "Beings dressed in white", or similar. Also, the possibility of being reunited with deceased loved ones.[24][27][28]
Receiving a life review.[24][26][27]
Receiving knowledge about one's life and the nature of the universe.[27]
Approaching a border,[26] or a decision by oneself or others to return to one's body, often accompanied by a reluctance to return.[24][27][28]
Connection to the cultural beliefs held by the individual, which seem to dictate the phenomena experienced in the NDE and the later

All of these apart from the conversations part are reported on Dimethyltryptamine. The experiences are so similar in every other respect that maybe the describing of the room or conversations part is just something that is unique to that situation and the effects of the drug.

I will respectfully say that I appreciate your stance, but I do not agree with it.

Wiki is altered by numerous people, and is not even allowed to be cited on High School term papers - and for good reason, as that because so many people can edit it, the information is highly subject to falsehood.

However, the same could be said about individual stories - such as the one in the OP.

So as I said above, I will agree to disagree - and if I may, I want to say thank you for discussing this without resulting to name calling like so many do that disagree with the spirit realm.

So, this is basically saying a human brain bordering on a state of consciousness has strange experiences.

I'm not so sure that the experiences are real or just something the brain is making up -- as we know a brain can do when it is between states of consciousness (and near-death is an ultimate form of being "between states of consciousness").

As for being able to later relay details of things going on in the operating theatre while their eyes were taped shut, I'm thinking they still had their other senses (hearing, for example) and could have deduced what was happening around him.

a reply to: AnarchoCapitalist

The first point as i mentioned before might be unique to the operating theater situation (prior knollege of what one looks like, the people who were there etc) and traumatic brush with death. The brain has amazing attributes that can extrapolate any situation and predict outcomes. most of them are wrong but sometimes they are spookely correct. Mix that with a strong hallucinogen and you have a possibility of a scientific explanation.

The second point is not even worth asking. There have been countless people who have started to believe in god after using the drug. I watched a video about a neurologist who had that experience only yesterday.

I recall reading one of the first books on the subject, Life After Death,
and really becoming interested.

There is an ongoing study where doctors are placing random objects
on top of shelves and equipment in surgical rooms where patients
are apt to die and perhaps come back. They are still compiling evidence
about it now. I can't wait for the study to come out.

originally posted by: PhoenixOD
a reply to: AnarchoCapitalist

The first point as i mentioned before might be unique to the operating theater situation (prior knollege of what one looks like, the people who were there etc) and traumatic brush with death. The brain has amazing attributes that can extrapolate any situation and predict outcomes. most of them are wrong but sometimes they are spookely correct. Mix that with a strong hallucinogen and you have a possibility of a scientific explanation.

The second point is not even worth asking. There have been countless people who have started to believe in god after using the drug. I watched a video about a neurologist who had that experience only yesterday.

I think it is more scientific to accept what all logic and experimental evidence suggest, which is that consciousness is required for matter to exist in a measurable state, than to conclude the opposite is true.

If you believe in reductive materialism, then you must also believe that matter itself is conscious. Any other belief is a form of cognitive dissonance.

a reply to: MentorsRiddle

Congrats on a mature attitude.

Many people think the drug is just a doorway to the spirit world. Science cant explain why it works the way it does and why it produces such profound lifelike experiences so who knows?

originally posted by: PhoenixOD
a reply to: MentorsRiddle

Congrats on a mature attitude.

Many people think the drug is just a doorway to the spirit world. Science can explain why it works the way it does and why it produces such profound lifelike experiences so who knows?

They can already explain how the drug works. The chemical responses in the brain to '___' are well understood.

Of course, since they can't explain how conscious experience can arise from matter in the first place, there's no possible way they could explain how '___' works to actually alter experience.

a reply to: AnarchoCapitalist

They understand some of the serotonin and Ht receptors the molecule binds to but why it works the way it does and how it produces such strong effects that mimic a reality that seems so life like and profound is a mystery.

Here is a study from the Journal of Scientific Exploration on Dimethlytryptamine:

www.scientificexploration.org...

On pages 5 and 6, it explains that participants described hallucinations that closely resemble those of NDEs.

I hope this thread doesn't get shut down because of the direction its been taking. Hopefully the mods understand we are talking about a naturally occurring chemical in the body produced in brushes with death and its relation to NDE's and not illegal recreational use.

a reply to: AnarchoCapitalist

If you believe in reductive materialism, then you must also believe that matter itself is conscious. Any other belief is a form of cognitive dissonance.

Thats a very interesting statement.

originally posted by: PhoenixOD
a reply to: AnarchoCapitalist

If you believe in reductive materialism, then you must also believe that matter itself is conscious. Any other belief is a form of cognitive dissonance.

Thats a very interesting statement.

Yeah, that's at the core of the "strong emergence" problem. Wiki provides a rather obtuse and academic discussion of the strong emergence problem, but basically it boils down to it violating principles of causality and determinism. Since consciousness cannot be reduced to constituent parts, then this is in obvious violation of reductive materialism.

Some academics claim that consciousness is a "weakly emergent" property, which assumes that all matter has components of awareness to it. This is fine by me. It really no different than what I'm claiming.

a reply to: AnarchoCapitalist

Again interesting.

But when i look at something as binary as the double slit experiment i cant help but wonder if there just isn't some undiscovered physics that causes the switch from one sate to another (ie wave to particle). So many times in the past where we haven't been able to explain certain types of physical actions we have attributed them to some kind of intelligence only to find we were wrong at a later time.

Some of the newer experiments that go further than the original double slit experiment are totally mind blowing though. I watched on the other day that showed them combining quantum entanglement with the double slit experiment and the results were off the wall.

Those drugs don't account for those born blind describing anything, people describing events and conversations in other rooms, and also, what was given in this video, nor do they account for spontaneous healings, as my son experienced during his NDE.

Selectively choosing evidence is a sign of being programmed into strongly held beliefs that create brain mapping, where neurons actually form a web and the person can't see anything beyond beliefs.

You have to be able to incorporate the other evidences in and not ignore them or you have a faulty view.

Only one side in this actually seems to be able to that so its more logical to believe in this.

a reply to: PhoenixOD

Then how do you explain him knowing what the doctors were doing after being clinically dead for 2 min?

My thinking is even though he was not breathing and the machines were not detecting life signs, it's still possible there was minor brian activity because there WAS some remaining oxygen in the blood. This is who the brain is able to stay alive for several minutes after the heart stops beating. But how'd he survive for 20 minutes? I don't know. But I do remember hearing watching a video about something relating to this and one of the doctors or researchers said not everything pertaining to the brain is going to show on the machines for different reasons. So I think that helps back up what I"m saying here - something happened but it wasn't detected.

So that's my feeling. Residual oxygen fed a dying brain. How his story was accurate is either chance or relating to small brain activity.

a reply to: AnarchoCapitalist

Consciousness can not YET be reduced to its constituent parts. To claim it'll never be reduced is not wise, as we've a lot to learn.

My own view is consciousness emerges from the overlapping forces and conditions in our universe. I even feel a rock drifting through space has basic traits that underlie consciousness. For example, it reacts when things hit it - albeit on a simplistic level. Its field of consciousness is very small so it doesn't react until it's actually hit and its responses are basic. It has a psuedo form of memory because it remembers its inertia and mass and shape - like in response to collisions. It's a very inert form of consciousness, if there's such a thing, but I think it's these fundamental traits and others that form the building blocks of consciousness.

I also think locality helps enable consciousness. Locality is the habit of things in our universe to coalesce and to be separated from other things. Without this separation then there couldn't be separate consciousnesses. Moreso, uniformity would probably prevent ANY consciousness.

I could also argue inertia is involved since in order for memory to exist things that have one particular state will tend to stay in that state. Without it, memories would form and collapse - preventing usable memory.

a reply to: Unity_99

Selectively choosing evidence is a sign of being programmed into strongly held beliefs that create brain mapping, where neurons actually form a web and the person can't see anything beyond beliefs.

You have to be able to incorporate the other evidences in and not ignore them or you have a faulty view.

Right back at you there Unity_99