Helping The Lazy?

It is commonly thought that a lazy person is worthless and looked down on. This is prevalent in the way that most homeless people are perceived. I have to think that there is a good reason that a person is and/or becomes lazy. Its just easier to judge someone that's lazy rather than to see what is causing them to be lazy. Unfortunately, if doctor operated by only looking at the side-effects then the real problem would go unnoticed and untreated. What if laziness was just a side effect of depression?

What if a person is lazy because they don't feel like their efforts will be enough? It seems like laziness can be a form a depression where persons attitude reflects they way see themselves. I don't think that lazy people should be taken out with the trash as is the common view. I understand there has to be moderation in trying to help because not everything can be controlled such as making a lazy person productive. I do however think that some effort is worth while in trying to help someone that may be in need.

Maybe a lazy person just needs someone to help give them some perspective and encouragement.

I think you might be on to something there.

But we definitely should not be linking general laziness (leaving a trolly next to the car in a shopping basement car park) with mental health issues (such as depression) by default. Even those with very good mental health functioning can be lazy and their behaviour should be called out if it negatively impacts other people and is within their ability to control.

Nevertheless, the homeless are very often unfairly judged and there is little doubt that there is a high rate of depression within the homeless population.

a reply to: Ralphy

What if a person is lazy because they don't feel like their efforts will be enough?

Suck it up buttercup. Millions of people go to work every day, knowing their job isn't going to change the world.
The guy who changes oil down at Jiffy Lube doesn't expect world peace when he dumps in a quart of 10W-30, why should that be an excuse to sit on their butt and leech the system? People are lazy, because they know the government will support them for as long as they want. There are God knows how many milking the Welfare system, when there is nothing stopping them from getting a job but their own greed and sloth. I'm sure there are some out there who are depressed, but don't paint with too broad a brush.

Yeah I think you're on to something there too. I've seen it first hand, people becoming more withdrawn, less chatty, almost pre-occupied with something, then they suddenly don't turn up at work anymore, don't answer phones and shut people out.

For all we know they could have been wrestling with demons from their past, which can rear its ugly head and make them feel like "Sod it. What's the point?" Then the depression becomes worse, they become "lazier", and when called out on it I'm sure it's only gone to contribute further...
I guess it comes down to whether people are willing/comfortable to share whatever it is that worries them.

But who knows, eh?

originally posted by: Ralphy
It is commonly thought that a lazy person is worthless and looked down on. This is prevalent in the way that most homeless people are perceived.

I think it's very dangerous and inaccurate to associate homelessness with laziness... I'm sure there are some lazy people among the homeless, but there are also many lazy people who have jobs and work every day. This shows up as people being lazy on the job, just getting by. There are also many homeless who are more than willing to work, if they could just find a job while they're homeless.

Homeless does not, in any way, equate to laziness.

To the main point of your post, I don't think a person is lazy because they don't think their efforts will be enough. Some people are just more lazy than others. If a person is depressed, they aren't motivated to do much, but that's not laziness, that's depression.

It is all about getting something real from what you do. I have been very productive in my life but noticed that I am not getting the benefits of said productivity. I am not very motivated to be productive until society changes into a Meritocracy where I frankly get what I deserve and only what I deserve not a thing more.

Well I'd like to comment, but first I'd need you to define laziness.

Example : I'm on social security. It's a political stance. Now this doesn't mean that I don't want to do anything, because I do stuff all the time, like write books. I just refuse to "work" in the conventional sense. I'm not lazy, I'm on strike. I'm refusing to contribute to a destructive, backwards society that doesn't give a damn about me or anyone else, and that's hellbent on frakking up the only planet my species presently has at its disposal via rampant consumerism.

In order to be able to stage my strike, *and* still be able to do other cool things like eating, I grow my own food, and kill my own meat. So how do I fit in with your definition of lazy ?

a reply to: Ralphy
You just described me in a nutshell. Except for this one part:"What if a person is lazy because they don't feel like their efforts will be enough?" for me, its quite the opposite: I don't feel worthy of success, so I never try. But, while that may be true for me, and others in this world, there are also truly lazy people, who simply do not want to do anything.

Laziness and profound fatigue from depression are two different things. Many times depression can be helped. But usually the only cure for laziness is to force the person to get off their butts and take care of what needs being taken care of. Sometimes that 'force' is to just let them fall or fail.

originally posted by: Ismail
Well I'd like to comment, but first I'd need you to define laziness.
...
So how do I fit in with your definition of lazy ?

I'm using the word "lazy" in the context where it puts a burden on others. In other words a person doesn't do anything for themselves and expects others to do it for them.

My point was that some of the lazy people in the world just need some help to get motivated. I also know that some people just won't change no matter how much help they get.

I think a lot of people are unfairly labeled as lazy. Back when I was in my 20's people assumed because I was young I could handle working 62 hours a week and and going to school full time. I beat myself pretty bad over how tired and fatigued I was and how much sleep I needed and the fact that I could barely stay awake at work and school. I would always hear people say, "I wish I was your age I had so much energy back then." Turns out I had Celiacs and that was why I felt so miserable, but in honesty, I thought I was just lazy.

Depression and health issues cause people to be labeled as lazy unfairly. I understand not wanting to put effort into anything anymore. There is only so many times you can fail and be emotionally and mentally beat up by others before effort becomes something you fear. When you are constantly told that no matter what you do, it isn't good enough, you start to think, "why try?" When the results of effort are like putting your hand on a hot stove, you don't want to keep doing the same thing, because it is hard to expect that one day you will receive different results and not get burned. I am stubborn, very stubborn, but there becomes a time when even stubbornness can be broken.

Only stupid people work just for the sake of working.

Work is a means to an end. You work because you want to accomplish something.

If you can accomplish the same thing with less work while also not conning/defrauding or stealing from anyone but just finding better ways to do things or automating some of your work or using machines or tools, you should do it.

It's stupid and morally reprehensible not to try to do more with less effort.

And no one should have to expend any effort at all just to have food and drink on the table and a roof over their head and clothes on their back in this day and age.

It should be a human right, like the right to breathe.

a reply to: calstorm

Oh you hit it. I had asthma as a child, sixty years ago when it was considered an emotional problem. My father labeled me lazy and to this day I still fight the internal battles over that labeling. Truth is, my physical body was not capable of keeping up with those who were not labeled lazy.

I don't feel sorry for anyone who is lazy. If we were to keep giving hand outs to the lazy, what would motivate them to become productive? I know people who are on Welfare or unemployment who depend on the money from those programs to the extent where they will avoid doing anything that will get them taken off of them.

This conversation actually happened: "Are you going to get a job?". "No, I'm going to wait until my unemployment runs out."

Screw that man. Feeling sorry for them doesn't help them. Society needs to quit bending at the knee for special interest groups. It is precisely society's nonacceptance of them that motivates them to make something of themselves.

originally posted by: Chiftel
And no one should have to expend any effort at all just to have food and drink on the table and a roof over their head and clothes on their back in this day and age.

Yeah. Even the farmers shouldn't have to work for food. No one should. Let everyone wait for their hand out that no one is handing out.

Comments like this is what is wrong with society. Nothing you can say in reply to me here is going to make anyone with a functional brain (excluding you) see your side of the argument as valid. So don't even waste your time.

Nope. Comments like yours are what's wrong with society.

People can be made to work what isn't completely automated. Through rotation. Or for luxuries they would not otherwise be afforded.

And not for 45~50 hours a week but something like 20.

But having to find secure employment just to procure the monetary means you require to sustain your life is retarded and barbaric.

And why the # would you want an employee who only shows up because they need the money to live and for no other reason?

Oh, I know.

Because you want slaves that will jump at the chance to work for peanuts because they're so desperate as they can't afford to live otherwise.

And you wouldn't have these anymore if people had a guaranteed minimum income and thus not be so vulnerable to extortion.

Well... tough.

Luckily, the future will be devoid of retrograde thinking like yours.

You say that food, drink shelter down rain down from the sky?

What about all the evicted homes being demolished? What about the vacant cities over in China? What about vacant buildings over here, in Europe?

How''s that fit in with your conservative world view?

Ludicrous.

The problem with capitalism is lack of purchasing power. Not lack of supply. Too bad you can't recognize the truth when it stares you in the face.

originally posted by: LucidWarrior
a reply to: Ralphy
I don't feel worthy of success, so I never try.

Poor pitiful you.

You need to find a way out of that mindset. Whatever it takes. But I shouldn't have to fund or support your weak mindedness. And that's what it is- weak mindedness. Its going to take a strong mind to get yourself out of you current mindset. So, the fact that you're not out of it means you don't have a strong mind.

a reply to: Chiftel

If everyone is entitled to a minimum income, who will work? If no one has to work, why would anyone? People have to work man. Don't be stupid. Food, drink, and comfort don't just rain from the sky every time you're hungry, thirsty, or need somewhere to sleep. No one should be entitled to that which has to be worked for. That doesn't even make sense. My mind is blown at the level of ignorance I come across on these threads sometimes. You don't even know.

Who wants more than the minimum income and who is motivated by other things as well. For example following their calling when they would not had been able to sustained themselves doing what they love doing otherwise.

Your mind is blown because these are concepts and ideas too grand for it. Not because we're ignorant.

The problem is with you. It's right there in your avatar.

originally posted by: Chiftel
For example following their calling when they would not had been able to sustained themselves doing what they love doing otherwise.

What? Like watching t.v. and playing video games?

Your mind is blown because these are concepts and ideas too grand for it. Not because we're ignorant.

I fully understand the ignorance of income equality, welfare, and the idea that "no one has to work".