Ultra-rich man's letter: "To My Fellow Filthy Rich Americans: The Pitchforks Are Coming"

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

If you are interested and have the time there is another outstanding (four part) BBC documentary called The Mayfair Set, which begins with the roll back of the British Empire and attempts by the hard right to compensate for that in order to maintain the UK's influence in the world and then goes all the way to the point of the "financial" cannibalism of the Western economies by asset strippers using borrowed money from pension funds and finally to the rejection of these asset strippers by the pension funds themselves who figured out that they themselves could just as easily create value for the pension funds by eviscerating the companies that originally built the funds and laying off huge numbers of employees.

It starts off with the extraordinary David Stirling, founder of Britain's Special Air Service, and his idea of selling arms and expertise to the former colonies and finishes up with asset strippers like Tiny Rowlands and Sir Oliver Goldsmith, once hailed as saviors of the economy, being shunned and excluded as "the unacceptable face of capitalism".

I don't understand how rational people can sincerely believe that increasing the minimum wage does anything but increase inflation. Not too long ago $10 was "living wage." I knew it would not be enough, nor will $15 be enough. Before you know it, it will seem as ludicrous as $5 a day, which was not all that long ago.

As soon as people make more money, prices and rents go up because they charge what the market will bear.

He's certainly welcome to pay his own entry level employees $15/hour or whatever he wants, and if he takes it out of his own profit, good for him. But if he expects to retain the same profitability, he's going to have to make it up somewhere. Does anyone really think he's going to pay his top people less? Nope, so he'll increase prices, and $15 isn't so great anymore, now they want $20. If he cuts his costs, that means his suppliers take the hit and how are those companies going to pay their employees more if they get less revenue?

The great disparities exist not only because a few people make a lot of money, but because a lot of people make little or no money. The more people who come to this country with nothing, the more underclass we have. And why do they come here if our economic disparities are so untenable??? If things are so bad, there would be millions trying to leave, not come in.

originally posted by: infinitelycurious
OK, this is my first post, So, after many years of reading the mail, Greetings.

I Think often about all of these arguments against Capitalism. But is what we have now Capitalism?

No, it's ToothFairism.

Of course it's capitalism.

originally posted by: Astyanax
a reply to: undo

the average rich person more often than not, got there by hard work

The poor work much, much harder than the rich.

By and large, people become rich by being clever, by seizing the moment, and by being willing to live with risk. Or else by being born rich.

No. Most of them got rich by inheritance, exploiting people, fraud, over-charging, dirty games, cheap labor, crooked schemes, etc..

There are a few that got it through hard work but not many. This guy is right, though; The pitchforks are coming. All the signs are there. I have no empathy for any of them. They sowed those seeds. But do you really think that the care? Nope. They'll just be on the first flight out o one of their many other homes in some other country. Hopefully, the people in those countries will be waiting for tem at the airport.

a reply to: lindalinda

I don't understand how rational people can sincerely believe that increasing the minimum wage does anything but increase inflation.

Did you read the man's letter to his uber-rich cohorts?

originally posted by: undo
a reply to: ipsedixit

i'm watching this video you posted. i'm so lost in the political intrigue part of it. are they saying the labor party there was infiltrated by communists?

Margaret Thatcher was a socialist, don't you know?

originally posted by: Voyaging
a reply to: Chiftel
I've been reading your post and you are by far the biggest jerks on this thread. You don't give a damn about anybody, you just want to see blood. You just want a damn revolution and dont give a damn about the consequences. You're just one of those people think you're right no matter what and everyone else is wrong or stupid. People like you don't add to the discussion, don't give any good ideas about what to do, you just sit at your computer and argue with people all day. Just go away.

I object to your slanderous characterization!

I don't do it all day.

originally posted by: lindalinda
I don't understand how rational people can sincerely believe that increasing the minimum wage does anything but increase inflation.

Inflation is an eminently monetary phenomenon. You're just replaying right wing propaganda you've been made to believe.

originally posted by: lindalinda
I don't understand how rational people can sincerely believe that increasing the minimum wage does anything but increase inflation. Not too long ago $10 was "living wage." I knew it would not be enough, nor will $15 be enough. Before you know it, it will seem as ludicrous as $5 a day, which was not all that long ago.

As soon as people make more money, prices and rents go up because they charge what the market will bear.

Profit margins are as much a cause of inflation as is any other demand for currency. When a few people have a lot of money it starts to sequester the active part of the economy and limit it to the rich. This drives prices upward. A ham sandwich at a greasy spoon costs much less than a ham sandwich at the Tour d'Argent and not just because of higher overhead at the Tour. Prices and even overhead are determined by demand but also by what the traffic will bear.

Low wages drive the majority of people right out of anything but the subsistence economy and the margins of society.

He's certainly welcome to pay his own entry level employees $15/hour or whatever he wants, and if he takes it out of his own profit, good for him. But if he expects to retain the same profitability, he's going to have to make it up somewhere.

His point, and remember, this is a very successful businessman talking, is that profitability will increase as the market expands with more customers.

Does anyone really think he's going to pay his top people less? Nope, so he'll increase prices, and $15 isn't so great anymore, now they want $20. If he cuts his costs, that means his suppliers take the hit and how are those companies going to pay their employees more if they get less revenue?

His point is that in the case of some very large employers, the profit margins are too large. Ececutive salaries may be too large too but I think he thinks business can pay a $15 minimum wage, increase profitablility by increasing the customer base, and still maintain the over all health of the balance sheet.

The great disparities exist not only because a few people make a lot of money, but because a lot of people make little or no money. The more people who come to this country with nothing, the more underclass we have. And why do they come here if our economic disparities are so untenable??? If things are so bad, there would be millions trying to leave, not come in.

They come because it is worse where they come from. We stay because it is worse where they come from. The .01ers use the dynamic of the immigrant willing to take less as a way to ratchet down wages in the US. Hanauer thinks this is not the way to go and will result eventually in the night of the pitchforks.

Interesting, how to separate the jack asses from the not jack asses. There is research on line concerning the opinions about people and economics. Jack asses believe that only the slothful, lazy, and greedy get the "Dole". Not Jack asses think that social, economic, and personal issues all contribute to the need to provide individuals and families with assistance for housing, food, medical care, and transportation. Jack asses listen to Fox News and all related broadcasts and say these networks and programs present factual information, without bias or prejudice. Rush Limbaugh saying that "Uncle Toms for Thad" voted for Senator Thad Cochran of Mississippi, by their definition is not prejudice and only factual. Time to take a look at the enrollment of Klan members in Missouri. Wonder how "Stormfront," the web site of the Neo Nazi, white supremacists rate such shows. Yes, I am being snide.
Jack Asses think, believe that the Federal Reserve is a government program. Not Jack asses know it is a private banking enterprise designed to serve the wealthy, corporations, and banking groups. Not Jack asses would accept a "Bank of the United States" that is part of the Department of the Treasury, operated by government employees and any profit paid to the U.S. Treasury. Do find a copy of "For Us The Living," by Robert A. Heinlein. He makes an interesting case for such an idea, including a once a year dividend payment to all citizens for profit made by the government. The profit does not include income taxes.
Now, Jack asses think that that Karl Marx's thesis, the Communist Manifesto, is the blueprint for Communism and Socialism. Not Jack asses know that Karl Marx was writing a critique of unregulated Capitalism. That Lenin created Communism by creating a political doctrine and calling it Communism. Lastly, Communism are is no difference than Fascism concerning whole sale government interference with production and labor. Socialism is reality based and seeks a middle ground between unregulated and total regulation of Capitalism. The nation with the most entrepreneurs has a 50 percent income tax. But, more of its people start new businesses than any where else in the World. Norway.
Last of all: The majority of Not Jack asses will read all of this, and probably start researching for opinion polls and news. While few, if any, Jack asses will read this word for word, and seek factual data to confirm or deny the contents.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: lindalinda

I don't understand how rational people can sincerely believe that increasing the minimum wage does anything but increase inflation.

Did you read the man's letter to his uber-rich cohorts?

Yep. He's got a lot more money than sense.

a reply to: alienjuggalo

That's just it...the irony is that they (the .01%) won't be giving up wealth. They will be making more accumulative wealth by the very mechanisms of capitalism. The initial growth of their wealth may stagnate for a short time (1-5 years perhaps) but over time as more money is flowing freely, prices will rise and eventually the top tier growth will escalate again.

originally posted by: ipsedixit

originally posted by: lindalinda

Does anyone really think he's going to pay his top people less? Nope, so he'll increase prices, and $15 isn't so great anymore, now they want $20. If he cuts his costs, that means his suppliers take the hit and how are those companies going to pay their employees more if they get less revenue?

His point is that in the case of some very large employers, the profit margins are too large. Ececutive salaries may be too large too but I think he thinks business can pay a $15 minimum wage, increase profitablility by increasing the customer base, and still maintain the over all health of the balance sheet.

I got his point, you don't need to repeat it to me. Paying higher wages will bump affordability temporarily until the system stabilizes with the higher prices that the market can bear, except that the lower-margin businesses will suffer. More of them will fail and their less affluent clientele will be the ones suffering because they now must pay higher prices. Anyone who isn't part of a two full-time income household will suffer because the rents will go up as two-income households can afford higher rents.

No matter what the minimum wage is, there will always be poor people.

a reply to: KarensHoliday

Eat the Rich

That will happen, canibalism behind pitch forks when the people get hungry enough. When people storm the mansions it might finally sink in. The writing is on the wall, he is correct it will happen nobody knows the day or the hour. When the staw breaks the camels back the elite will become food. And no bail out to self will stop it. No ammo shortage. Ever see the film "the Road" it will be like that. But without fallout, the only fallout will be the uprising anarchy and chaos.

Bill Gates with a apple in his mouth served with potatos and secret sauce

Bon appetite

originally posted by: Chiftel


Alright, so after that lovely, fabulous little pep talk about how the left vs. right divide is not real or the left and the right can supposedly come together to do what's right and what not, answer me this.

Can you find me one Republican / Conservative / Tea Partier in favour of this rich dude's proposal?

That is to say, a $15/hr federal minimum wage?

Nope. Having studied economics, we know about price controls, price floors and price ceilings, and the massve misery-inducing distortions such things have on the market(look it up, if you want). Minimum wage is a price floor on labor.

Also having studied history, we are aware of the despicable purposes for which such price controls on labor have been implemented in the past...that is, to freeze certain kinds of people out of the labor market entirely. Usually its targeted at poor, low-skilled, entry-level minority workers, like the Davis-Bacon act of 1931. Like all wage control laws, it was touted as"ensuring a fair wage for all workers", and I'm sure lots of people had warm fuzzies inside just thinking about how excellent and fair it was going to be, since they had no idea that because of D-B, African-American workers were effectively banned from participating in the New Deal construction spree.

Davis-Bacon was proposed by a couple of racist northeastern Republicans

originally posted by: lindalinda
I don't understand how rational people can sincerely believe that increasing the minimum wage does anything but increase inflation. Not too long ago $10 was "living wage." I knew it would not be enough, nor will $15 be enough. Before you know it, it will seem as ludicrous as $5 a day, which was not all that long ago.

As soon as people make more money, prices and rents go up because they charge what the market will bear.

He's certainly welcome to pay his own entry level employees $15/hour or whatever he wants, and if he takes it out of his own profit, good for him. But if he expects to retain the same profitability, he's going to have to make it up somewhere. Does anyone really think he's going to pay his top people less? Nope, so he'll increase prices, and $15 isn't so great anymore, now they want $20. If he cuts his costs, that means his suppliers take the hit and how are those companies going to pay their employees more if they get less revenue?

What you really need to understand is choices and greed. Those are the main two driving factors in ANY company.

A CEO can choose to run his/her company economically while providing a greater benefit to his/her employees. The perfect example of this is Costco. They are killing Wal-Mart in many ways:
1. Stock price for Costco is greater
2. Wages paid to employees are greater at Costco
3. Benefits paid to employees are greater at Costco

Prices are not greater at Costco than they are at Wal-Mart. However, the Costco founders are multi-millionaires and not billionaires like the Walton kids.

Here we see a direct correlation between choices and greed in the way in which each company operates. The choices and greed start at the top. The owners/operators of Wal-Mart choose to maximize their personal bottom lines (greed). The founders of Costco have said rather poignantly that they put their employees and customers above their shareholders.

Paying a livable wage is possible for many companies. It does mean less in the CEO/owner pockets OR higher prices for customers. Again, choices and greed. But what does making socially conscience choices in business mean? They don't get to buy that 4th or 5th house? Boo-f'ing-Hoo...

originally posted by: lindalinda
The great disparities exist not only because a few people make a lot of money, but because a lot of people make little or no money. The more people who come to this country with nothing, the more underclass we have. And why do they come here if our economic disparities are so untenable??? If things are so bad, there would be millions trying to leave, not come in.

"If things are so bad..." they aren't YET. You are skipping over the "grass is greener" phenomena. Truth be told America is slowly going downhill, Mexico and other Central American countries have been s#!t for a long time. But the reason they have been s#!t has a lot to do with their corrupt governments working with our corrupt government.

There are so many pieces to the puzzle as to why people from Central American countries come to America. But when you finally have an ultra-rich guy admitting things are going south for America you might want to listen.

You also might want to study the economic and historical precursors to the French and Russian Revolutions. Their societies and governments are better examples of what to expect rather than arguing for leaving vs. staying.

Listen to the words of Milton Friedman again in this 1979 interview on Donahue.


While being a smart guy, and right about greed and self-interest being a motivating factor, he fails to also capture the true checks and balances of the corrupt systems on this planet. Throughout history and in every society and civilization you will see an increase in greed that eventually leads to the fall, destruction, or revolution of that civilization/society.

It is a cycle that doesn't change because human beings haven't changed in many thousands of years. But this is a slightly different topic.

originally posted by: [post=18091469]nOraKat

... not that we should have to shoulder anything.. but everyone should realize that this Earth is a closed system.

A problem existing in any part of the world will eventually affect everyone - whether it is poverty, ill habit and culture, or ill views and beliefs. You cannot just isolate it somewhere.

Yes, it takes the World united, not just the United States. ~$heopleNation

originally posted by: [post=18090991]freakwars

It was not the rights of man that led to the American revolution. It was the fact that the bulk of wealth in the country was held by foreign nobles. Same reason we saw the revolutions in South and Central America following WWII.

Well yeah, there were many reasons for The American Revolution, not just one. ~$heopleNation

It sounds all warm and fuzzy, but Henry ford had a closed labor supply. He could not export model T assembly to China(If he could he would have), they had no industry, skilled labor, energy, and transportation costs alone would have killed it. Now, any Manufacturing, or Labor, of any kind can be done cheaper in China than the U.S.. ANY! Like for 4 cents on the Dollar Cheaper. China has 500 million young workers alone, who will work for subsistence wages(rice, a tent, and a bucket). Their wages will never, ever rise to the level where they can buy much of the actual goods they produce, let alone western exported goods.
The reason for the new wealth divide, is the new income divide. Back before free trade, poor people could bootstrap themselves up by getting a job in manufacturing. Manufacturing is the only way known to create wealth out of thin air, and those workers got a piece of that wealth. That is pretty much gone."The Internet", Service Jobs(See Servitude), Banking, Entertainment, and Government sectors of the Economy do not create any new wealth. Farming does, but very marginally.
If this guy wants to create and re-distribute wealth, manufacturing is the only way.
I keep seeing and hearing pundits and fools both, wandering around mumbling the "Econ 101" catch-phrase of the day that they heard on TV; Steve Forbes and his "Flat Tax", this guy with his $15 minimum wage, the legalize marijuana people, the "Cut taxes on Business toadies/the Raise taxes on Business toadies", but no one is talking about the real problem. It kind of reminds me of those old WWII videos, where the Soviets were at the gates of Berlin. The Berliners were all going about their business, walking their baby carriages, and standing in breadlines, while all around them artillery shells and bullets were exploding nearby, still fully sold on the idea that their Fuhrer was winning the war.
What's the Solution? Put a $2 import Tax on all imported goods(Excluding raw materials and fuels). Don't want to pay the tax? BUILD IT IN THE UNITED STATES!
For every Dollar spent on Imports, $7 leaves the economy. Think about how much money the U.S. has spend on Imports in the last 20 years, now multiply that times 7. That was the wealth the Middle Class has lost. Most of these "99" I.Q.'ers" will never get it.

this could already be said but...

I don't know about you guys, but I belong to the other 99.9 %

Lets get us get some pitch forks. Why wait to fix things, until they really are no longer functioning ?
Come on ! That is not what consumerism taught us.

Lets fix things ?

Peace

You know...some of you people make me sick! At least on this topic. Take (or steal) something from someone because you want it. Not need it...not won't survive without it...WANT IT. If you want more and if anyone wants more it is YOUR fault (with some exceptions) that you aren't getting more. So what do you do...you follow the lies of the left and demonize people who did, what you didn't. And then...instead of saying..."Wow, I can do things like that", you say "F that...I'm just gonna take it".

Who the hell cares if someone makes more money...even ridiculously more money. What are you going to take next? Are you going to slash the face of someone because they are prettier than you? You know...bring them down to bring yourself up? What else? Can I steal your car because yours is better than mine? Occupy a room in your house if I don't like the one I have?

Tear me up if you want, its not like I care. But anyone who supports this 1% crap is nothing but a leech...and a taker. Make something for yourself, get up and work, get up and get a better education and stop looking for the government to feed, clothe and house you. Do it yourself...it actually feels good.

PS: My family and I would be classified as middle class...in case you were wondering.

Marx knew his economics; his writings show he had a firm grasp on the principles of free market capitalism.
He was also a statist who believed in centralized control by an elite. But free market capitalism diffuses control across the many hands of the individuals participating in free market trade; each individual retains complete control of their own assets and choices, without any sort of government intervention into that control(this is the essence of "unregulated capitalism"...you are sovereign over your wallet and I am sovereign over mine. So it is actually the exact opposite of unregulated, as every single person becomes the regulator of their own stuff).

Marx was an elitist that disagreed that the "common man" should be left alone to live his life having control over his little pile of belongings. That was simply unjust and unfair to the common man, when there were supergeniuses like Marx out there wanting nothing more than to take away all conrol from you and run your lives for you...all for free!!

The word salad about how the Communist Manifesto is just a critique of "unregulated capitalism", not a blueprint for "Communism", which was a governing and political philosophy founded by Lenin that, by pure chance, happened to be based largely on principles outlined in the Communist Manifesto....principles which, it just so happens, have come to be known as"Marxist" principles, or Marxism....
Yep, no blueprint here!! Just red koolaid, splashed everywhere, all over everything

Thanks man...I'll be cracking up over that one for a week! You should open up a pretzel shop or something.


Meanwhile...behind every problem in implemented capitalism lies a leftist policy.