NOAA/NASA Caught With Their Pants Down On Global Warming Numbers...

a reply to: pheonix358

So what, I should shut up because I am too stupid to understand science.

Stupidity is not the same as ignorance. Seeing science as some monolithic entity is a display of ignorance.

You, I think, see science as an end to itself, I see science as a tool owned by the people.

Science is a tool to understanding. How that understanding is used is another matter.

In one way or another, every 50 pieces of silver spent on science comes from the pockets of the people.

Of people, yes. "The" people? Not sure what you mean by that. Science is performed by universities, private corporations, as well as governments. Do you expect scientists to do their work for nothing? Do you expect farmers to do so?

Now it is a parody, controlled by big business and money. Science got greedy.

There have always been greedy people. There have always been those who have attempted (and often succeeded) in twisting the knowledge gained through science. There have always been those who have disputed and denied the knowledge obtained through science. Science is not an entity, it is a process.

IN CASE YOU MISSED IT ... ( March 2007 )

Warming On Jupiter, Mars, Pluto, Neptune's Moon & Earth Linked to Increased Solar Activity, Scientists Say

Here's a prediction:

The sun's current active phase is expected to wane in 20 to 40 years, at which time the planet will begin cooling. Since that is when most of the greenhouse emission reductions proposed by the UN and others are slated to come into full effect, the "greens" will see that cooling and claim, "See, we warned you and made you take action, and look, we saved the planet."

Of course, they will have had nothing to do with it.

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OPINION: Same as MY-PRIOR-OPINION
.

a reply to: FarleyWayne
Since the article in the OP claims that we are actually in a cooling trend your insinuation that other planets are warming as a result of solar activity doesn't really seem to be relevant.

Interesting though, if Pluto is being claimed to be warmed by changes in the Sun and it receives about 0.06% of the sunlight that Earth does, shouldn't we be getting a lot hotter than we are? Just think, the effects on Earth should be 1600 times stronger. Never mind the fact that we can't actually observe the climate of Pluto, or Neptune, or any other planets.

You know that whole "all the other planets are warming because the Sun is getting hotter" is a bunch of nonsense, right?
www.livescience.com...

a reply to: FarleyWayne

Good Information !!

I think the "scientists" actually have been corrupted by the banker money mungers.

They know what's going to happen and are making a financial killing off of it.

The NWO is all based on the ancient money principals and scams.

The Globalists could care less about any real threats.

a reply to: Inexorable

WOW did you join up just to say that? Just fantastic, a winning contribution!

Gosh what bugs me is there was so much stuff to comment on, yet clearly you've taken none of it into account.

Can we please see your list of contributions to humanity, since you seem to think it is a prerequisite for forming an opinion?

originally posted by: Inexorable

You could help humanity take the garbage out by shooting yourself in the head.

So. Totally. Uncalled. For.

For those who actually read the article, and come for reasoned conversation, let's discuss the news, and not each other, ok?

That is the topic here.

Although I am a climate change skeptic I believe there is something wrong with the weather here (east coast Australia). It stopped raining suddenly last year at the end of June and hasn't really rained properly since. We have had less than half the average rainfall in the last 12 months and most of that was only in a couple of downpours. It is not normal. I have looked at historical figures from the bureau of meteorology and this pattern has never happened since records were kept. But the strange thing is no one seems to be making a big deal out of it and no one can say when it going to rain again or why this is happening. This part of the world is slowly but surely turning into desert although it used to have an annual rainfall of over 40 inches.

a reply to: Phage

Stupidity is not the same as ignorance. Seeing science as some monolithic entity is a display of ignorance.

Wow. so I am ignorant. Yet every answer you ever give is based on 'Science is right.' Perhaps you do not know that you see science as monolithic. Never once, not a single time, have I seen you give an answer that displays non-monolithic science. When have you said, some scientists see it that way while others see it that way. It is Phage's view and it is monolithic.

Science is a tool to understanding. How that understanding is used is another matter.

Convenient that! Do what ever science wants and never take any responsibility for the results. Yet, I was taught that science was supposed to be ethical, in fact, at one time, it mostly was.

Science is performed by universities, private corporations, as well as governments. Do you expect scientists to do their work for nothing?

No Phage, scientists need to make a living like we all do. But that money they spend after chasing it dowm through grants and such like comes from the people. Unless you are in the US, and then, yes, it can come from the Government as they just print the stuff off 24/7.

Science is not an entity, it is a process.

That is not how scientists portray it. They hold it up on a pedestal, just as you are doing now. It is only when they are in retreat do they move to their fallback position of calling it a process or some other fiction. Just google 'Science quotes.'

P

a reply to: grumpy64
The weather in Georgia has changed, as well. The seasons are different. Spring hardly exists anymore, winter begins at a different time than it used to, fall is short. The most frequent weather is very warm to suffocatingly hot, very similar, and getting moreso, to Florida's weather, just a bit more to the extremes than Florida.

I have lived in Georgia almost all of my life, and I recall much different seasons, very distinct changes for each, and each one started and ended at very different times.

However, I believe that the contribution, overall, from mankind is not as great as it is made to be, and that deforestation and overforestation, along with overly large cities have a lot to do with it. As in, pavement and black or darker buildings trap and keep radiant heat.

As for Co2, we have less plant and tree growth to absorb and utilize it. That, along with what I believe is probably possible tampering with the atmosphere by an Obama decree, are both dangerous. I think ruination of rain forests has gone a long way towards changing the weather, but that went out of style when money became more important.

Since pluto is much colder that .06% is relative to the increase experienced on earth.

a reply to: Phage

originally posted by: Inexorable
What have you done for science, humanity and the planet in comparison to him? You could help humanity take the garbage out by shooting yourself in the head.

Another stellar example of the leftist mentality and their staunch adherence to one of their many causes

If you're so concerned about CO2 emissions the last thing you'd want to do is fire a weapon. Think of all the nasty greenhouse gasses that are expelled from the barrel of a gun besides the projectile (which also most likely contains LEAD )

Why don't you show us how convicted you are to the idea of Climate Change/Global Warming/The Big Chill (whatever term fits the current political winds) and just refrain from expelling your noxious CO2.

THINK OF THE CHILDREN!

Although I do not always trust the interests of science on some subjects, I do believe we are causing the problems with the climate we are experiencing this time. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see we are trashing this planet. Go down to some of the rivers and smell them. Smell the air.

This pollution has been going on for a long time. It was really bad in the thirties and forties. The pollution may look a little cleaner out of the factories chimneys, but the amount of travel has increased over the years. Whether it be air travel or just traveling in a car or bus it has increased over all. The electricity we consume has also increased in the world. I'm only 58 and I can remember how it has changed. I remember when a toaster would last a lifetime, and refrigerators hardly even ran. But we decided we did not want to defrost a fridge anymore so now they run all the time.

The energy comparisons we see on appliances do not compare them against the well built simple appliances that used to exist, they compare them against the worst energy hogs that we developed. A fifties model fridge would only cost maybe three bucks a month to run and it would not be running often.

I'm agreeing with Phage on this one. The problem is real. Methods of evaluating the numbers do change and in this case the way they are starting to look at the problem is much more correct than the ways we used to address this issue. We used to make the numbers show we were not polluting as much, now the formulas are a little more accurate. Nobody wanted to pay extra in the stores to pay for ecological practices and this caused us to look the other way.

originally posted by: FarleyWayne
IN CASE YOU MISSED IT ... ( March 2007 )

Warming On Jupiter, Mars, Pluto, Neptune's Moon & Earth Linked to Increased Solar Activity, Scientists Say

Here's a prediction:

The sun's current active phase is expected to wane in 20 to 40 years, at which time the planet will begin cooling. Since that is when most of the greenhouse emission reductions proposed by the UN and others are slated to come into full effect, the "greens" will see that cooling and claim, "See, we warned you and made you take action, and look, we saved the planet."

Of course, they will have had nothing to do with it.

-
OPINION: Same as MY-PRIOR-OPINION
.

Come on man, we all know man made global warming is so bad it is even warming all the other bodies in our system, by the same metric.

Oh wait, I guess that is just the overactive Sun doing its thing...NVM.

a reply to: Phage

Science is a process bought and sold like any other process. Regardless if it is a government agenda or a commercial agenda.

a reply to: Libertygal

I think you may be right in regard to the size of cities plus land use affecting rainfall. And I wonder about authorities deliberately messing about with the atmosphere to change weather patterns for some purpose or another. Overall it seems scientists are so hellbent on blaming CO2 that they are missing vital clues as to what is causing these changes. They are not even looking for alternatives. One thing that locals are saying here is that we don't get storms anymore.

I don't buy into the whole 'science is selling itself' argument when it comes to climate change.

How are scientists profiting from the average citizen? when you buy an energy efficient appliance that money goes to the manufacturer, not the scientists. And it's not the scientists benefiting from a carbon tax, it's the government.

And that's what it boils down to-the govt wants a new tax to raise revenue. Not to mention the Big polluters also hire their own scientists to counter claim others findings, What a surprise.

At the end of the day it's better to be safe than sorry and take the necessary precautions. I'd hate to be the person who tells the billions of displaced citizens that it's the researchers fault that they are up to their ankles in sea water.

originally posted by: grumpy64
a reply to: Libertygal

I think you may be right in regard to the size of cities plus land use affecting rainfall. And I wonder about authorities deliberately messing about with the atmosphere to change weather patterns for some purpose or another. Overall it seems scientists are so hellbent on blaming CO2 that they are missing vital clues as to what is causing these changes. They are not even looking for alternatives. One thing that locals are saying here is that we don't get storms anymore.

C02 is not the main culprit, water vapor is, but they cant regulate that seeing how the oceans are full of it.

So since there is no money to be made there, it isnt worth their interest.

Thisn is all BS.

Even Phage, will pwned by this one simple truth, we men, are not so all powerful we control crap to do with nature.

She will do as she sees fit, we are but like grass, trampled by a horde of overwhelming force.

We do not even register, much as we would like to believe we do, on natures radar.

We are akin to fleas on a dog, a minor annoyance, nothing more.

Every single day, more C02 is released from decaying algae in the ocean than man can make in a year. This doesnt even account for all the other decaying plant matter in the world. One average size volcanic eruption makes us look like mere babes in comparrison of C02 production, how many active volcanoes on earth?....exactly.

Wait arent we burning the same C02 that was already way more abundant in the dino days than now?

What is the current C02 content of the atmosphere? Around 380 PPM, in the dino days it was thousands of times higher, without this BS out of control warming, why do you think there are giant lakes of hyrdocarbons trapped below ground.

It didnt magically get there, it was captured and stored after the KT event killed all the dinos off.

Did you know we are at present just barely above the bare minimum of C02 content for plants to even be able to conduct photosynthesis?

We are only around 100 ppm above the minimum for photosynthesis, which is why our plants are so small. Which is why they have to add it to greenhouses, because the plants are starved compared to their forefathers.

More c02, more bigger plants, this is a fact. How big were plants back in the dino days?

How much faster did they grow?

I think all of this is overlooked nonstop because it does not help their pushing this BS one bit.

a reply to: ProfessorChaos
So how do all the little creatures and plants and fish know how to migrate towards the poles where it is warmer without having mobile phones for Obama to tell them what to do ?

How do all those glaciers decide to melt and recede up the valleys if it is not getting warmer, let me guess the glaciers are not retreating it is myth invented by scientists who are fiddle the photos and satellite images.

Understanding ALL the data about climate (NB Climate NOT weather ) would go a long way to understanding what is really happening instead f jumping on the latest anti GW band wagon.

Nature shows what the average mean temperature is........WARMER !!!!

CO² in Earth's atmosphere affects its temperature.

CO 2 is a potent greenhouse gas and plays a vital role in regulating Earth's surface temperature through radiative forcing and the greenhouse effect

Source

The industrial revolution began a trend of pumping more and more CO² into the atmosphere every year.
Source


If you don't believe that CO² emissions are affecting global temperatures, I hope you believe they will eventually.


Since this is ATS, let's get conspiratorial.

If a hoax exists, someone has an agenda. Who would benefit from convincing the world's population that its environment is slightly changing? Renewable energy companies? Please.

Big oil is the only stakeholder in this. I don't know anything about the integrity of the numbers, but if any were forged, I would assume big oil was involved. But why would they want to change the number to support climate change? To start a thread just like this.

I'm reminded of the film Promise Land.