Racial Profiling

For what it's worth, I am from a family that is considered, and has been called many times "white trash". My Daddy, and his before him worked hard, and didn't get the opportunity to spend time with his family due to the hours they had to work. My clothes were old, but were clean. Every time I went into a store with my friends we were always observed by the powers that were. It was obvious. The point is I DO UNDERSTAND as well as anyone the embarrassment of profiling. It did s--k. I hated it, however I understood it, due to the fact that many of my peers were shall we say "less than honorable".

[edit on 12/4/2004 by superdude]

I received this from a freind this morning, and I thought it was appropriate for this thread.

HISTORY TEST
Please pause a moment, reflect back, and take the following multiple
choice test. The events are actual cuts from past history. They actually
happened!
Do you remember?

>1. In 1968 Bobby Kennedy was shot and killed by:
>a. Superman
>b. Jay Lenno
>c. Harry Potter
>d. A Muslim male extremist between the ages of 17 and 40

2. In 1972 at the Munich Olympics, athletes were kidnapped and massacred
by:
>a. Olga Corbett
>b. Sitting Bull
>c. Arnold Schwarzenegger
>d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

3. In 1979, the US embassy in Iran was taken over by:
>a. Lost Norwegians
>b. Elvis
>c. A tour bus full of 80-year-old women
>d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

4. During the 1980's a number of Americans were kidnapped in Lebanon by:
>a. John Dillinger
>b. The King of Sweden
>c. The Boy Scouts
>d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

5. In 1983, the US Marine barracks in Beirut was blown up by:
>a. A pizza delivery boy
>b. Pee Wee Herman
>c. Geraldo Rivera
>d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

6. In 1985 the cruise ship Achille Lauro was hijacked and a 70 year old
American passenger was murdered and thrown overboard in his wheelchair
by:
>a. The Smurfs
>b. Davy Jones
>c. The Little Mermaid
>d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

7. In 1985 TWA flight 847 was hijacked at Athens, and a US Navy diver
trying to rescue passengers was murdered by:
>a. Captain Kidd
>b. Charles Lindberg
>c. Mother Teresa
>d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

8. In 1988, Pan Am Flight 103 was bombed by:
>a. Scooby Doo
>b. The Tooth Fairy
>c. Butch Cassidy and The Sundance Kid
>d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

9. In 1993 the World Trade Center was bombed the first time by:
>a. Richard Simmons
>b. Grandma Moses
>c. Michael Jordan
>d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

10. In 1998, the US embassies in Kenya and Tanzania were bombed by:
>a. Mr. Rogers
>b. Hillary Clinton, to distract attention from Wild Bill's women
>problems
>c. The World Wrestling Federation
>d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

11. On 9/11/01, four airliners were hijacked; two were used as missiles
>to take out the World Trade Centers and of the remaining two, one
>crashed into the US Pentagon and the other was diverted and crashed by
>the passengers.Thousands of people were killed by:
>a. Bugs Bunny, Wiley E. Coyote, Daffy Duck and Elmer Fudd
>b. The Supreme Court of Florida
>c. Mr. Bean
>d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

12. In 2002 the United States fought a war in Afghanistan against:
>a. Enron
>b. The Lutheran Church
>c. The NFL
>d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

13. In 2002 reporter Daniel Pearl was kidnapped and murdered by:
>a. Bonnie and Clyde
>b. Captain Kangaroo
>c. Billy Graham
>d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

Nope, .....I really don't see a pattern here to justify profiling, do
you?

So, to ensure we Americans never offend anyone, particularly fanatics
intent on killing us, airport security screeners will no longer be
allowed to profile certain people. They must conduct random searches of
80-year-old women, little kids, airline pilots with proper
identification, secret agents who are members of the President's
security detail, 85-year old Congressmen with metal hips, and Medal of
Honor winning and former Governor Joe Foss, but leave Muslim Males
between the ages 17 and 40 alone because of profiling.

As the writer of the award winning story "Forrest Gump" so aptly put it,
"Stupid is as stupid does."

"Superdude"

Racial Profiling will not help matters but actually make things worse. In a nut shell we cannot seperate nationalities into zones here in the United States as much as we all would like. This would cause bigger issues that most are not even thinking about on a bigger picture. Look at Iraq for example, there are so many diffrent types of people/beliefs living in that country that it has been making localized wars amongst its peoples for control." one group of peoples against another group of people on thier own soil" If we seperated all the Middle Eastern people, then the Asians and so on, in time we would be dealing with those same issues here among us on our lands. This situation needs to be addressed but in a diffrent manner so we dont find ourselves in a catch 22 like elsewhere in the world.

Just My thoughts...

"Superdude"

Racial Profiling will not help matters but actually make things worse. In a nut shell we cannot seperate nationalities into zones here in the United States as much as we all would like. This would cause bigger issues that most are not even thinking about on a bigger picture. Look at Iraq for example, there are so many diffrent types of people/beliefs living in that country that it has been making localized wars amongst its peoples for control." one group of peoples against another group of people on thier own soil" If we seperated all the Middle Eastern people, then the Asians and so on, in time we would be dealing with those same issues here among us on our lands. This situation needs to be addressed but in a diffrent manner so we dont find ourselves in a catch 22 like elsewhere in the world.

Hey Justmytype - haven't seen you around for awhile - good to hear from you. While I see the validity in your point, I don't exactly agree with it. Times are different now than they were just a few short years ago. It has been proven that there have been very detailed studies made of certain areas and buildings in NY, and NJ by terrorist groups- actually having government agents comment on the attention to details. As I recall reading approx. a year ago, a computer and paperwork were seized with details down to the point of pinpointing the number of people who walk in certain areas in a given time. I am in NO WAY saying that everyone of a certain ethnic group is a bad person. What I am saying however if there is a certain ethnic group that has been repeatedly proven to be the culprits of a type of crime, then I think that it is acceptable to give a closer look to their activities. This applies to every single ethnic group IMHO.

The Not So Fine Print

Originally posted by Justmytype
So do yourself a favor Newbie look around at what our country is actually facing before opening your mouth..

Do yourself a favor and read this:

ABOUT ATS: General ATS discussion etiquette

What I Don't Quite Understand

If it's okay to use racial profiling for hiring quotas, medical treatments, social benefits, college scholarships and college admissions, why is it not okay to use it for law enforcement?

After all, aren't all these things about justice?

Or just some of them?

Racism is racism.

And it all stinks.

If it's okay to use racial profiling for hiring quotas, medical treatments, social benefits, college scholarships and college admissions, why is it not okay to use it for law enforcement?

After all, aren't all these things about justice?

Majic, I couldn't agree more. Things are skewed. When it comes to the things you just mentioned, people of every group are quite vocal aboiut how they should be looked at as the group they represent, but as soon as it becomes a matter of security, and folks this is about security, then the perspective is completely different. Some of the groups out there want to kill MANY innocent people, even unleashing nukes in civilian areas. I have to ask what is so wrong about monitoring the activities of these groups? I do not want harrassment, or unjustified arrests, that is not what I'm advocating here. I just see it as common sense. If a particular group is responsible for a large percentage of the time for a certain type of crime, then it's almost a duty to scrutinize, isn't it.
I agree that there are some "vigilantes" who take things too far, but insofar as scrutiny by officials, I am for it.

[edit on 2/15/2005 by superdude]

Majic,

I am not sure were you are getting this from, because if you read my post prior to superdude's you would see that my views have changed since then, because of the way the world has becoming especially with Iraq pointing out the effects of segregating certain peoples/beliefs and it seems we are all on the road of destruction. On the other hand if I were looking to be "quoted" from past post's I would of stated that, and would expect that from the peanut gallery not youself.

Just a thought

Nothing Personal -- Literally!

Originally posted by Justmytype
I am not sure were you are getting this from, because if you read my post prior to superdude's you would see that my views have changed since then, because of the way the world has becoming especially with Iraq pointing out the effects of segregating certain peoples/beliefs and it seems we are all on the road of destruction.

My post wasn't directed to you, but if you think it was, there's probably a reason for it.

If you oppose racism in any form, however, there's really nothing for us to disagree about, except maybe a few details here or there.

But even if you were to wholeheartedly support racism in all its forms, that's your right.

I would strenuously disagree with you, but your opinion is yours to choose, and that is a sacred choice.

It seems, however, that this exchange is based on hypotheticals.

And so it goes.


(Edit: If I'm misunderstanding you and you're actually talking about the "newb" thing, I'm just recommending losing that term because Simon doesn't care for it -- nor do most people)

[edit on 2/15/2005 by Majic]

Originally posted by knights5629
I agree with racial profiling. Most of the terrorist acts around the world have had Middle Eastern Men (and now women) commintting the acts. Not just here in the US, but in Russia, Europe, Britian, etc.....

since when has there been a terrorist act in britain committed by anyone other than irish terrorist then?

Profiling is lazy policework so I am against it. Instead of actually investigating a crime lets just randomly round up people that vaguely look like some one that might have something to do with what we want to prevent. Has profiling ever been successful, and I mean really successful not just resulting in a high arrest rate. Has it resulted in a victory in any of our previous flavor of the month wars ( war on Crime war on Drugs etc.)?
What happens when someone fits the profile but is innocent and because the police focus their investigation on him the real perp is allowed to esape?

Heres a scenario for you
Two terrorist groups independantly and unrelatedly plan a devastating attack on DC using your personal favorite WMD. The two groups arent even aware of each others existence have completely different idealogies heck the only thing they have in common is their target DC. They both try to drive to the WhiteHouse to detonate their payload and get stopped at a checkpoint. One van gets waved through while the other one is searched. Why because one terrorist group is made up of stereotypically fundamentalist arabs and the other is a group of white leftist Bluestaters who feel disenfranchised with the reelection of Bush...

The main argument that I hear supporting Profiling is that times have changed and we run the risk of cataclysmic catastrophe if we arent vigilante .
I say this all the reason we need to abandon the flawed concept of profiling we need 100% protection not just protection from the obvious threats. When you cross the street do you just look at the oncoming traffic or both ways? If you just look at oncoming traffic yeah youll be safe from the majority of traffic accidents but boy youll feel dumb when you get wiped out by the one drunk coked up driver who decides its fun to drive against traffic.

The "Newb" thing, If you read the conflict and saw the other post by Skram that was "canned and banned" by the mods you would understand it more clearly. But thanks for being a kiss ass and letting me know about it.


Just My Thoughts

Request For Clarification

Originally posted by Justmytype
But thanks for being a kiss ass and letting me know about it.

Please explain what you mean by this.

And please, make it a good explanation.

Super dude,

I am sure I could come up with an equally imposing list of crimes and atrocities committed by white men, black men, and yellow men. i mean come on, all you proved is that people kill and hurt other people. Not that I disagree with you however, I will have to say that when I am sitting on an airplane I am a selfish son of a bitch, I would rather have the Saudi gentleman held up and interrogated than not as I am a skittish flier at the best of times.
As a philosophy however profiling doesn't even work. I was watching a news program, some Peter Jennings special on airport security and racial profiling and they were interviewing a middle eastern american who gets stopped and ofcourse doesn't like it, and doesn't understand how he even got on an actual suspect list. What scares him mmore was the fact that 2/5 time he doesn't get stopped or questioned at all and HE IS ON A LIST.

Anways, I don't agree with the principle of profiling but as I said it makes me feel more comfortable knowing that it happens in certain situations.

Originally posted by arnold_vosloo

Originally posted by knights5629
I agree with racial profiling. Most of the terrorist acts around the world have had Middle Eastern Men (and now women) commintting the acts. Not just here in the US, but in Russia, Europe, Britian, etc.....

since when has there been a terrorist act in britain committed by anyone other than irish terrorist then?

The single biggest act of terrorism- Lockerbie- committed by North Africans.

There is no such thing as "racial" profiling, that is a liberal new media myth. In "crimminal" profiling "race" is but a single issue among many. If a suspect meets a majority of the profile issues too often is they are of a "protected" race cops are reluctant to act.

Fact ALL the 911 terrorist from the Boston airport had been stopped based on a "profile" but a logan airport lawyer had security let them go because he was afraid of a lawsuite.

PC insanity.

Originally posted by arnold_vosloo

Originally posted by knights5629
I agree with racial profiling. Most of the terrorist acts around the world have had Middle Eastern Men (and now women) commintting the acts. Not just here in the US, but in Russia, Europe, Britian, etc.....

since when has there been a terrorist act in britain committed by anyone other than irish terrorist then?

In any event, we "Irish" (I consider myself to be British living within Northern Ireland) have been "profiled" throughout the troubles, as we were searched, questioned and generally treated differently when, for example, travelling from airports to Belfast (from England), as opposed to someone travelling to Manchester, London etc etc

These are times that require special circumstances. Yes I do think that racial profiling is something that should be enforced. Yes there will be some "innocents" who are inconvenienced. Too Bad. I fall into a group that has been profiled in the past. I'm ok with it. I have nothing to hide, and those that do should not be allowed to use this over the top PC as a means to carry on their illegal activities.
The current threat is a real one, they are trying to KILL us. I read a thread on here where OBL said he wanted to murder 4 million Americans, half of them chlidren. He says outright that he wantes to murder 2 MILLION children.
I vote YES for racial profiling.