Firefighter chases dog and both are missing 411?

a reply to: Ektar

That avatar is all Ektar.

Hey Mates...funny I had been thinking about this case last week.
I still think the fishermen suspicious, Duke acting bizarre & I think
Byars knows A LOT! Wonder if he will ever crack?

I think we're on to something there partner.

a reply to: Tsurugi

Hey mate I like the way you think. Are you located any where near
randyvs so maybe you can go & check out the area with him?

Thanks randyvs on the avatar...love KISS. I'm wearing it in honor of
Gene Simmons since the MSM just brought his name into the news.

Cheers
Ektar

Wow, love the discussion you're having here and would love to join! I've some theories, as do most paying this matter any attention but want to explore anything you all might have including these fisherman. I followed this case for a spell after it happened but left it when his body was found and never made any connection with them... Well done!

I'm intrigued by the fisherman provided by LEO explanations as well and agree with your theories/speculations on them but how do any results come out of this? It's really quite vexing when you start to pay attention isn't it?? We're all too easily dealt with when approaching an agency tasked with question volleying and I know that unity (in rather large numbers) will be required to get anything of substance from these agencies but how do you break the programming to accomplish this??

I've spent a fair amount of time in very remote areas and know things capable of these acts but will refrain from postulating because I want to hear more about these fisherman, beyond what LEO has already put forth. Cheers and thanks for keeping this discussion going!

a reply to: Ektar

Are you located any where near randyvs so maybe you can go & check out the area with him?

I live in Texas. So I'm not close, but I'm not so far away as to make an expedition totally out of the question, either. I do get out to the west coast every now and then.

I'd definitely be willing to do some recon of the area with Randy. He seems like exactly the kind of guy I'd want watching my six in a place like that.

a reply to: randyvs

More thoughts on the fishermen:

It has occurred to me many times as I read through the 411 cases, that whatever is doing this seems to be able to draw people out into isolation, where they can be taken without anyone witnessing it happening. There are cases where the last time the victim was seen, they appeared to be looking intently at something off the trail. Or cases where the missing person seems to have suddenly decided to walk off into the untracked wilderness, shedding articles of clothing and equipment as they go.

It's as though something lures them toward their own capture...similar to the way a fisherman lures a fish to the hook.

originally posted by: WanDash
It would be interesting to know of the first time this particular excuse was used in such cases...
Because - if we're talking about LEO's just hearing of another case where "anonymous fishermen" played vital/critical roles in establishing parameters of a case...and saying - "Hey. That's believable. Think I'm going to put it in my portfolio for such a time as needed" - then - one would think it would have been a fairly significant case -- (else, why the widespread use?).

Good points. I would say the Atadero case was significant--it made national news at the time.

On the other hand, I'm certain the thought of making up some "anonymous witness" statements to bolster the official conclusions on a difficult, high-profile case has occurred at one time or another to most investigators over the course of their careers. Even if they don't actually do it.

If these (Herdman & Atadero) cases are the only instances where 'anonymous fishermen' (specifically) plugged that hole - then - your broader description of 'anonymous witnesses' might hold the truth with a little better grip.

Agreed.

'What' could be out there doing this...on a broad scale?
The octopus... Good points. I, earlier, suggested something along the lines of the alien jungle creature in the movie "Predator".

Yah. It was that suggestion of yours that made me start thinking about the stealth/camo abilities. My reason for posting the octopus video was to illustrate the fact that although the Predator alien is a work of fiction, his abilities and talents are not.

If, though, this (the Herdman case) was the work of a 'single' mystery-creature - the dog (Duke) becomes a greater mystery... (unless it was a large winged creature.

I'm not sure I follow your reasoning here. Can you elaborate? I do think the problem of the dog is important, and I'd like to hear your thoughts on it.

Thanks!

originally posted by: spookysully
Wow, love the discussion you're having here and would love to join!

Please do! The more minds we have nibbling at this, the more likely we are to pierce the veil on this mystery.

I'm intrigued by the fisherman provided by LEO explanations as well and agree with your theories/speculations on them but how do any results come out of this?

I have no idea. All I know is that peoole have to keep prying away at these cases until we do get results.

I've spent a fair amount of time in very remote areas and know things capable of these acts but will refrain from postulating because I want to hear more about these fisherman, beyond what LEO has already put forth.

Hey, hey....no fair holding back! Due to the fantastical nature of these cases, we've all made some pretty wild speculations over the course of this thread--hell, I've just implied the culprit is a sentient shapeshifting cephalopod ninja posing as a fisherman--if you have some ideas, let's hear them!

Cheers and thanks for keeping this discussion going!

Looking forward to your contributions. Cheers!

a reply to: Tsurugi
Explanation
According to the OS - the entire mystery revolves around Duke.
It, purportedly, began with Duke going rogue... With Herdman taking off after Duke, barefoot & (presumedly) no other gear... And - according to the OS - Byars joined Herdman in pursuit of Duke...and, didn't leave Herdman for a full mile+ along a difficult/treacherous watercourse, before turning back to camp.

In line with the OS - but also considering the officially-ruled-out-possibility of foul play - it appears that Duke was lured, to ultimately lure Herdman.

If that is the case - Byars' halo just took some tarnish, as - it is not likely that some connivingly predatory creature (capable of leaving little to no trace of existence) would attempt to take out two adult males, in their physical prime...

Duke was unscathed and unharmed. The 'predator' did not want the dog.
I do not believe it could have been accomplished by a single 'predator'.
...which is why the piece of the puzzle filled with the fishermen, is troubling.

If Duke was lured - but Herdman was the prey...where was Duke during the victimization?

I grew up mostly in Montana with a very, open set of rules for my explorations and through this, have been granted a wide range of amazing and scary sights and situations in my life. Where I'm from, grizzly bears, wolves and mountain lions were and are very prevalent. Waling for the bus in the morning was always an adventure!! Ha ha! I've had close encounters with many bears, both grizzly and black,a wolf or three and even had trouble with mountain lions before. I've spent a fair amount of time in the Bab Marshal Wilderness and hunted, fished and even did a bit of trapping, which I'm not proud of. After Montana I lived in Oregon for almost 30 years with a stint or 2 in Washington. I know there are creatures living in both the wilds and very close to rural neighborhoods that have probably played a role in at least some of these mysteries.

My point is that I've a fair amount of experience in the out of doors and have actually seen 2 different kinds of creatures that could not only take any human on the planet, armed or not but do it with little to no trouble. I hope I'm among open minds, able to look beyond the average response when I say these creatures are of an unknown to "science" nature.

I'll see how much snickering ensues before I ask for opinions or continue with my theory's, not all of which revolve around these creatures but this is the direction I think this topic needs to go if a conclusion beyond endless speculation is sought.

I hope I've not burned the welcome mat. Many cheers!

a reply to: spookysully

Well you have my attention. Can't gairantee no snickers but they won't be coming from me. I'm convinced of where this needs to go. So if you have any ideas regarding what? Don't be shhy!

a reply to: spookysully

You've got my attention as well. I think most of the people paying attention to the 411 cases acknowledge that the culprit is probably something currently unknown to science. Like Randy said, can't guarantee there will be no snickers, but they won't be coming from me.

originally posted by: randyvs
a reply to: WanDash

...The fishermen are symbolizing something and conveying
a message?

Why do I feel like Batman right now?

If going with my preponderant leanings - yes - to your first question.
Code...to someone.
Wonder who would be sending the message, and, to whom?

Maybe Tsurugi has nailed it, with the octopus... ~An outstanding fisherman, at least.

Maybe Condorman...with this, right in the middle of a condor sanctuary.
(resuming the question, regarding - no circling vultures/condors/buzzards for however long Herdman was dead...).

a reply to: spookysully
Hello, spookysully,
Thanks for stepping in.
If your suggestions are funny enough to elicit a belly-laugh...I will be most grateful.
Otherwise - the mere fact that we are not accepting the official story at face value, places us in the same boat.
So - please - share your insights.

Hey Spooky I'm all ears too, let's hear it.

Wan is the "Spiral" still visible?

Remember Duke was spooked & skiddish after the incident.
I'm glad we're having another look at the fishermen something
Definitely not right with them.

Cheers
Ektar

originally posted by: Ektar
...Wan is the "Spiral" still visible?

Remember Duke was spooked & skiddish after the incident.
I'm glad we're having another look at the fishermen something
Definitely not right with them.

Cheers
Ektar

The 'spire' is still visible in GE imagery, as of this moment, with the latest imagery-date - December 31, 2014, and visible all the way back to black & white imagery dated June 4, 1994.

Wild-looking avatar, friend.
Makes me want to just rock and roll all night...and (maybe) party every day... Yeah.

a reply to: Ektar

Hey Spooky I'm all ears too, let's hear it.

Is anyone else wondering what's up with Spooky?

The hesitation amid a couple of log ons and ample time?

Maybe his avatar is a clue? Speculative conjecture pertaining to
Spooky's "Creatures of an unkown to science nature".

Thanks everyone for the warm welcome, its refreshing for sure! I would love to talk about these fisherman as I think they're probably some form of agentesque element in place to provide, as aptly described by Tsurugi, a reasonable and mundane addition to the directed or prevailing theory being presented by the MSM. Hey, the direction for what "obviously" happened has already been put in place, these convenient happenstancers were simply at the right place at the right time to... Agree with the official report right?!!

I've seen little to no information on these happenstancers beyond, the random fisherman adding credibility to the official explanation. So, where are we left with them and their corroborating testimonials?

When you're in a situation like this as a parent or close relative, We can only imagine the thoughts going through the mind as minutes turn to hours and days to weeks. Ultimately, the mystery becomes heart wrenching tragedy, different from a death as there is no closure and you're left with nothing but very painful questions and to question search efforts with these discrepancies probably seems ludicrous which, if I was directing such an operation of planted fisherman, this is exactly how I'd want those involved to feel.

That being said, why do I feel like such an outlandish theorist by actually admitting to this theory?? Ha ha, pretty obvious why, no??

Whether or not there can ever be proven a connection is the question and good or bad, anyone even looking in this direction will be ignored or ridiculed by "serious" investigators (as the theme song for TJ Hooker smoothly plays in the background).

I for one enjoy surfing the more abstract parameters such as this and think, more often than not, answers are provided but hard to see through "official" diatribes of easily explained to John and Jane Q Homeowner explanations" that otherwise, ignore the fact that, there is nothing in the official explanation that explains anything! Dead from exposure is the answer and pay no attention to the fact that we found the body on a trail previously searched countless times by seasoned professionals, spastic for the search canines refuse to follow an established trail etc. etc. etc.

I've rambled long and apologize for not really saying anything. The creatures I mentioned are certainly an issue I have with disappearances, officially explained or not but for me to share my experiences would, I fear, derail the thread. If you think otherwise, I'd be unabashed to share them, suffice it to say that I know in my heart that there are creatures more than capable of the deeds done. Many cheers

a reply to: spookysully

IDK Spooky, you can see we're completely stumped. And
by a story that sends everyone who pays attention on
hike in the dark forest.

One last time, you want to tell us what you know? Are you
going to give some direction as to what we might need to
look for if some of us end up hike'n out there? Would you like to
come with us? Cause I'm ready anytime.

If you've seen something, telling us will only expand our knowledge.
The amount of belief it receives, shouldn't hold much value for you
at all.

a reply to: randyvs
I have a 14 hour difference in time with most of you, this is part of the reason for my delay, that and a job and girlfriend that keep me attuned to what she wants me to be doing... Ha ha ha! Sorry!

I had my first experience with something absolutely terrifying and impossible to explain at 14, bow hunting in a tree stand in Nebraska of all places. I saw a massively huge wolf/dog walking through the copse of trees I was hunting in on its back legs. It had just gotten dark and I was waiting for my dad to come pick me up after an unsuccessful hunt. It was very cold and quiet and getting dark when I heard a loud snarl/bark and a very heavy growling and snapping of what sounded like incredibly strong jaws and teeth. I sat, pinned to the tree about 10 to 12' up just watching this thing come towards me. At first all I could see was a huge dark shape making its way through the trees towards me.

It got to within maybe, 10 ft of the tree I was in and it stopped, looked up at me and with a snorting snarl, got immediately quiet! It seemed to asses me, almost instantly and resumed its snarling and snapping as if I was of no concern to it. It turned to its left, my right and that's when I could see it had the back bent dog legs and a huge husky or wolf tail trailing it. I should mention that I was in full camouflage, with deer scent (nasty substance) on me and the old man would put the black chalk or whatever that stuff is on my face to keep the glare down and better hide me.

It was dusk and much of the detail was omitted, all I know for certain is that this was in the middle of a very large corn field, in a thick row of trees separating the fields in nowhere Nebraska, 5 miles from a very small town (Shelby) and approximately 2 miles to the closest house. It was obviously a huge 3' thick wolf or dog walking on its back legs, height was around 7 or 8ft maybe?... I know prevailing logic would lean towards miss identification or someone in a huge suit but why would this happen?? It wasn't anyone in a dog costume and the sounds this thing was making still gives me goose bumps and I was raised to know the local fauna and this wasn't on any list I was aware of at the time.

There had been an early snow which allowed me the background needed to see what I saw as this thing angrily walked through the trees. It was massive, much bigger than any wolf or dog you can name and it kept jerking its arms and upper body left and right like it was extremely pissed off?? There isn't much else to this encounter as I have no memory of it after it seemed to assess me and turn. The next thing I can remember is the old man yelling for me to get the hell out of the tree as it was time to get home. I didn't hesitate, I told him exactly what had happened as we walked the 1/2 mile back to the truck. I'm 50 years old now and this happened when I was 14 so memory is what memory is but I've always known that what I saw, shouldn't have been there, doing what it was capable of doing. It was bizarre and scary and I have never understood why I blacked out the time after it turned. Its like I just lost it then and there??

My dad mostly ignored me as I prattled on about it. I remember him looking at me and saying, You know, you're in that stand tomorrow night boy! We didn't build that damn thing for you to be chicken #ting out and not using it! My dad was not the best role model for parenthood and had little to no time for bs like this. He most certainly wasn't behind any joke or prank intended to scare me and we were the only people out and about at this time of night in this secluded area. This was also literally in the middle of nowhere, surrounded by nothing but huge (miles long) cornfields, in Nebraska! There aren't even wolves in Nebraska!! Ha ha..

This encounter has always plagued me more than any of the Sasquatch experiences and I can't explain why. I was actually on a radio show called Dogman Encounters not all that long ago explaining this encounter if anyone wants to listen to it. Episode 41, its on youtube.

My first Sasquatch encounter happened around 2 years later back home in Montana when my cousin and I were camping up near the mountains off Teton pass rd behind Choteau, my hometown. I can ramble on for many lines concerning my Sasquatch encounters as I have always lived where large numbers of sightings take place ongoing. We didn't see it the first time but it was yelling and bashing a tree up on the foothill leading to the rockies about 100yrds above us.

The first Sasquatch I saw was just over 9' tall stooped over and over 3' thick in profile, this was in Oregon in 08'. A literal giant that moved with a grace that can only be described as, bird like. It came down a 14' embankment and crossed a 2 lane forest service rd in a few seconds and hit its head on a branch overhanging the road. My buddy and I saw the branch move and were able to get a very accurate measurement. it was 9' 3" to the branch and this thing was several inches taller and it was slumped forward by a foot or more? We found 19" tracks and when I crested the small embankment it had come down, another one of them was up there and it wasn't too happy about me being there as it began breaking trees that were 7 to 8" to some that were close to 10" and it was doing this as it retreated in the opposite direction.

I understand how grandiose these tales sound and I'll understand anything other than just rude naysayers telling me I'm delusional but I can assure you that I'm of a sound mind and have a history, with my friends of being honest. I've no reason to trick or mislead anyone and stand to gain nothing by this sharing. I am also very comfortable in the great out of doors and have spent much of my life exploring them. Many cheers and I'll do my best to answer any questions anyone might have.

a reply to: spookysully

I have a 14 hour difference in time with most of you, this is part of the reason for my delay, that and a job and girlfriend that keep me attuned to what she wants me to be doing... Ha ha ha! Sorry!

And you're sorry for this? Forgive me if I'm a bit skeptical!
The explanation will do just fine tho.

After the first line of the second paragraph I'm already thanking you.
This is going to be juicy I can tell.

This encounter has always plagued me more than any of the Sasquatch experiences and I can't explain why. I was actually on a radio show called Dogman Encounters not all that long ago explaining this encounter if anyone wants to listen to it. Episode 41, its on youtube.

This very well written account checks out with many I've read.