Firefighter chases dog and both are missing 411?

You guys keep pointing out the non-reasonability of him climbing up a cliff barefoot, but fact is people DO irrational things.
We also know he was barefoot and not in the slightest clothed/equipped for outdoor activities, so for me it's not really surprising he attempted to climb a cliff too.

The "non-reasonability" would only apply to someone who KNOWS that climbing up a cliff would be extremely dangerous and that doing it barefoot would be silly, to say it mildly. He would then take a risk and do something "against common sense", knowing that each step he'd take he might slip and fall.

If he on the other hand was over-confident and did not even SEE a danger (because he was not as experienced as some people claim)...then he could well have chosen he wants to climb a cliff barefoot at night, he simply didn't see it as a danger due to ignorance. And THIS is how accidents happen, people do stupid/irrational things and are not aware of what they do is dangerous. Accidents are hardly ever "predicted", no one climbs a mountain KNOWING they will fall....now one goes 150mph on a highway knowing they will crash etc.

a reply to: NoRulesAllowed


After these two became seperated it's like the movie goes silent.
Byars has never said once, that Herdman called to him or anyhthing
like that. How does anyone explain that? At the bottom of a canyon
where sound is easily traveled and heard? And what does it point too?

I have a feeling the reason they seperated is likely the reason for
hermans death. Because you can easily call someone in a canyon over
a large distance. Or Herdman suddenly lost his voice, lost his hearing
and lost his way all at the same time?

originally posted by: randyvs
...Just remember the reason Dean ruled out a fall, is
because of the location of the body, not being near enough to a
cliff face. And I know I keep going after the most mysterious
aspects involved but, if Mike was thrown out away from the cliff face
or even dropped from the air? Then plausible deniability may be
favored by the coroner. Enabling him to simply say a fall, when it's not
even realistically possible. And again when Dean was in the press
conference this would account for his utter bewilderment.

I am assuming Dean gave a reasonably factual assessment in that conference...and that the body was, indeed, found far-enough away from the 'cliff face' to make this difficult to understand.
If Dean was not accounting for the slope of the surroundings, or some other terrain features...then, errors can be made.
In any case, and regardless of certain protests:
A person in their 'right mind' would not have travelled 3/4 mile away and 1,200'+ higher, looking for their dog, in the dark...barefooted...without some mysterious (at this point) impetus continuing to drive them on.
Or - I don't see it happening.

a reply to: WanDash

no one has mentioned this ....but....if herdman just ran off after the dog that night and fell off the cliff,wouldn't Byars have heard a scream, he was there looking for him,,,,,the river runs in a steep canyon......which begs many questions ...did he fall, if so when did he fall....if there is a time gap,where was he ........

so many questions

a reply to: WanDash

People seem to make very strange decisions in this area...back in January of 1969, 10 people, including young teenage boys and a law enforcement officer were killed when trying to escape flood waters.

The strange thing is they all had taken shelter in a warm, secure cabin that contained food and water. According to the one person that escaped the flood, the Sheriff that was rescuing the group insisted that the campers ride out of the canyon in a bulldozer across the flooded creek. If they had waited a few hours they could have escaped easily.

No one could understand why the Sheriff did what he did...

www.outsideonline.com - sorry I couldn't get this to link the normal way.

Also, if you google Sespe 1969 there are many articles about the case.

The article also has a dog named Duke involved - strange.

I don't like this one bit. The Police chief insinuated in the press conference that Mike died the night he went missing...he said they didn't look where body was found because they didn't expect him to climb higher in elevation at night barefooted. Yet the coroner is stating he was only dead a few days (though missing two weeks). So if he had only died a few days before they found him, why was his dog found a week before he was? The dog could follow the scent to where the car used to be parked...therefore he could have followed the scent to his master which would have been stronger.

Why didn't he find his way back to camp if he actually wandered the woods for a week and half? Makes no sense.

a reply to: megabogie

Agree about the dog.

Also what is the deal, dead a few days or dead for two weeks?

Is the problem with the reporters or with the information released by the officials?

Why don't they just say "We don't know yet."?

a reply to: Missmissie173
Speaking of oddities...
Here's an anomaly (I presume) on Google Earth...
34°33'41.34"N 118°56'20.16"W - elevation 2,823', eye altitude 2,966'
The oddity... This 'geographic feature' is apparently 35' or so, in circumference at the base, yet extends upward 200' or so, to a peak.

Anyway - not used to seeing these kinds of anomalies on recent high resolution satellite images.
Then again, the feature is likewise in each of the satellite images back to 2003.

It is in the general vicinity of where they were hiking/camping, and/or where the body was found.

a reply to: Missmissie173

the problem is...if he was only dead for couple of days, 1. you can only survive 3 days without water, 2. he wasn't anywhere near the creek....that gives us 5 maybe 6 days....he was missing for 2 weeks...where was he the first week????????

a reply to: megabogie
I read it to say - that's as good as they could tell, at the time.
As diggingdirt noted - the elements, nature & wildlife can take a swift toll at times, and seem to leave things relatively untouched at others.
Seemed to me that they were announcing the date of death...as the day the body was found...and saying "but he'd been dead at least a few days".
It is, though, a good question...or - one that should have a better answer...
If only CSI (Las Vegas) could have been involved...

a reply to: WanDash

Odd - good term for the area

Sorry, I am not real swifty when it comes to geological measurements, but wouldn't those you quote from google make for a difficult climb without the right gear?

Anyone else think "shapeshifter?"

a reply to: research100

So that...and I thought they used drones and planes and etc...

If he was deceased for that long wouldn't they have seen vultures or hawks? There is a Condor preserve there. Aren't they birds of prey?

originally posted by: research100
a reply to: WanDash
wouldn't Byars have heard a scream, he was there looking for him,,,,,

It's not in the movies where someone falls and then goes "AAAAAAAAAAaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!" all the way 'til they hit the ground...

a reply to: Missmissie173

thanks for posting that, I was going to but forgot about it with the other stuff I was thinking I wondered if they didn't see any circling birds??.....even if they didn't do a walk search in that area, did they send the drones in that area the copters

Here's my theory.
It makes no real sense to go that far up unless he was being chased by someone. While near the top they caught up with him, bashed him over the head and threw him as far as they could so that the fall would be blamed for the head bashing.

originally posted by: Missmissie173
a reply to: WanDash

Odd - good term for the area

Sorry, I am not real swifty when it comes to geological measurements, but wouldn't those you quote from google make for a difficult climb without the right gear?

I was looking for any 200' sheer rock faces in the area...as described by the helicopter pilot.
There's really no way he would have attempted to climb this 'feature'. It is literally, like a spire coming out of the ground.
Plus...to have been found 1,200' above the campsite/creek elevation, he would have been found on the pinnacle...which makes this even more impossible...
But - it is a terrific find, as far as GE anomalies go, being that every satellite photo of the area since 2003 has recorded it.

a reply to: FistOfFreedom

Yep, thought about that a while back.

I am taking Paulides' new book with me this week for 4th of July weekend. The "Devil's in the Details" about the Devil name places related to his research.

Of course, I am going to Posseum Kingdom Lake, to Hell's Gate for the fireworks and you pass Devil's Hollow Road...seriously! I love to push the envelope.

originally posted by: Missmissie173
a reply to: FistOfFreedom
...Yep, thought about that a while back.
...I am taking Paulides' new book with me this week for 4th of July weekend. The "Devil's in the Details" about the Devil name places related to his research.
...Of course, I am going to Posseum Kingdom Lake, to Hell's Gate for the fireworks and you pass Devil's Hollow Road...seriously! I love to push the envelope.

Be sure an drop us a note...from the other side.

originally posted by: research100
a reply to: Missmissie173

the problem is...if he was only dead for couple of days, 1. you can only survive 3 days without water, 2. he wasn't anywhere near the creek....that gives us 5 maybe 6 days....he was missing for 2 weeks...where was he the first week????????

Good point missie:

Given the steep terrain I can understand that larger scavenger animals may not have gotten to his body, but don't they have carrion birds there? If he had died on the 13th or 14th, I would imagine it wouldn't take long for these birds to find the body. Then you would imagine that one of the searchers would think to look for that type of activity.

It sure doesn't take long for crows to descend on a dead squirrel or rabbit even in the middle of a city. There are still so many question marks no matter how you look at this.

The body may well have been obscured by vegetation all along and only became visible when a larger scavenger pulled it out into view, and that is why it was wasn't discovered during earlier flyovers.

The the main question is how did it get to that location to begin with?

Namaste,
YogaGinns

ps: at least my earlier question on how Byars would have had the keys to Herdman's vehicle was answered by one of the maps shown earlier, they each left a car at the beginning and ending points of the hike.