Firefighter chases dog and both are missing 411?

a reply to: megabogie

Not sure if you know it, but he was one of the investigators on the Polly Klaas case.

Some more great information and no I had no clue.
I commend David for not using that to promote his
books. The more I learn of this guy? The more I see
a rational, upstanding truth seeker.

originally posted by: randyvs
a reply to: megabogie


David makes a prediction that is dead on and made my skin crawl.
He is quite a fascinating human being.

BTW just call me by name.

I "predicted" on June 22nd: ""The guy went up a hill chasing the dog...slipped...fell...triggered a ton of sand lose (mini land-slide down the hill).......and was buried by sand and gravel""

Do you think it's extraordinary to "predict" that he might have gone up a hill, given that the steep hills on Google maps were the first thing catching my attention?

Don't get me wrong, I am not wanting to diss D. Paulides there, in fact I am just listening to an interview with him on Afterdark radio..but I can see hikers going up hills/mountains and FALLING (still waiting on official cause of death!) being ONE major cause that those people die in the first place. NOTE: "If you go up a 1200ft hill at night, BAREFOOT in the wilderness you'll likely have a bad time". And it doesn't need rocket science to conclude that, really.

And for the speculation WHY he might have gone up..we covered that already...he might have gotten lost and got up on a hill to see where to go..or simply to look for his dog. ESPECIALLY when someone is over-confident they don't see a danger in climbing a hill. The definition of an accident is that someone is not aware of (or ignores) a danger ahead, this is why such accidents happen in the first place.

a reply to: NoRulesAllowed You do not know that happened but you summize it did. Too many factors involved point to foul play. imo When the docs say he expierenced a fall and had no other trauma then i will start to agree. A more likely scenerio is a fight then a fall. That would give him reason to go up a hill.

a reply to: NoRulesAllowed

Now you're at least making fair summations. I don't have a
problem with that at all. And you're not trying to push down
the parameters that this hole thread, was based on in the first place.
But you have to remember he wasn't down up against a cliff face. He was
found far away from the face enough, that I deem a fall impossible. Also
being found in a thicket? He damn sure didn't walk into?

a reply to: randyvs

Even the sheriff stated that he didn't believe a fall from that cliff was a possibility simply by the location of the body

a reply to: EyesOpenMouthShut

Yes indeed and the parameters of this thread are as solid
only as those set by the man himself. So good luck to anyone
think'n they can, as amatuers, argue against them. No matter
how much anyone wishes these events not to be scary?
Sorry, you can't get around it PERIOD

The sheriffs face was priceless while he was trying to answer some of those hard questions though lol
I almost felt bad for him

a reply to: deadeyedick

Also we have a case here that involved a great number of
trained trackers and dogs. There are obviously no tracks to
blame this on mountain lions, bears, or any other logical explanation.
So when do some of you people not willing to accept the illogical
as more logical, relent?

I would say if not now, then never and that's OK.
I don't blame you one bit for fearing the unknown.
Scary as hell, I know.

a reply to: EyesOpenMouthShut

Yeah, he looked totally lost and guarded in the defense
of his professionalism. It had to be a tough interview for him.
Almost humorous if it weren't for the tragedy.

a reply to: randyvs

3/4 of a mile away...in his BARE feet...how did the tracker dogs not find him??
or at least indicate to the humans to go in that direction????

how far from camp were they when they started the dogs????

originally posted by: research100
a reply to: randyvs 3/4 of a mile away...in his BARE feet...how did the tracker dogs not find him??
or at least indicate to the humans to go in that direction????

how far from camp were they when they started the dogs????

You're asking questions that may never be answered accept
by those who were there. What would be ideal? A list of those who
joined in the search. And possibly some facebook connections to
those not so emotionally involved.

Reply to Starling:

Another thing that bothers me greatly is that Byers supposedly headed off in 'his car' from the parking lot to seek help, after two fishermen conveniently led him back to the trailhead after he got lost. This was on Sunday, 2 days later. So whose car did Duke the dog find his way back to? Herdman's or Byers'? Did the two hikers come in separate cars to take a hike? Not likely! So if not, and there was only one car, but the car was driven off by Byers, did he then park it in the very same place for the dog to find later?

This has been playing in the back of my head too. If the car was Herdman's you might think that he had the keys on his person when he left the campsite, if not did he leave the keys in his backpack and tell Byars that's where they were if needed?

Or if there was only one vehicle did both of them have keys to it...that would make a lot of sense and demonstrate good planning.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Reply to the question about two firemen getting that much time off together:

My Dad was a fireman, and I grew up seeing calendars that had "N, D, V, K or nothing" on every square.

N - nights
D - days
V - vacation
K - kelly days (mutually agreed on shift swap)
nothing - was just a day off

Each fire station had two shifts, either day or night and the same 8 firemen worked together on said shift. This is why there is such a strong bond between these men (women), they often spend more time with each other than their families. If you spelled someone off on a "kelly day", then on those occasions you would be with other squads at different stations.

So, yes, it was not unusual for him to have 4 or more days off in a row. Hope that made sense.

Namaste,
YogaGinns

I'm not posting this as a probability or even a possibility.

More over as what it might take to meet the abnormality
we're faced with.

a reply to: EyesOpenMouthShut

I have to agree with you, but the odd thing is it's like they're snatched up instantaneously and the people with them or near them don't see it happen. It's the ultimate in creepy.

a reply to: randyvs
I completely agree Randy, He is simply seeking the truth even though that truth might not be something people would be willing or able to accept. What is great about his approach is that he doesn't say what he thinks it is...he just presents the facts and let's the reader come to their own conclusion.

originally posted by: randyvs
a reply to: deadeyedick



Also we have a case here that involved a great number of

trained trackers and dogs. There are obviously no tracks to

blame this on mountain lions, bears, or any other logical explanation.

So when do some of you people not willing to accept the illogical

as more logical, relent?



I would say if not now, then never and that's OK.

I don't blame you one bit for fearing the unknown.

Scary as hell, I know.

Well i just speak from the minds eye and that could make me crazy by some accounts. I will concede my points when we get answers and then i may have to revaulate the whole minds eye part. Until then what i see is the widow and the friend conspiring. I see the much thought on the footprints. I seen a view of two on top of a cliff and i seen them take a ride in a car together after camp was made. However if you want me to be crazy then i would say the friend is a shapeshifter.lol

a reply to: YogaGinns

Thank you for that explanation. I always thought firemen worked very rigorous schedules and rarely had 2 days off at one time, let alone 4. I appreciate your response.

originally posted by: Missmissie173
a reply to: GreenMtnBoys

Hi Green:

First, Hip Hip Hoorah for all the great back stories and research about the Sespe region. Very interesting about the Chumash Indians and the rock paintings in and around this area.

To me, when you see the art history that Native Americans produced for hundreds of years, it lends credibility to the things we don't understand about this or any remote environment.

Very weird and creepy figures in the rock paintings from the link in your post. Besides the big creatures did you notice a dog in the background (upper left) and the little people have different types of heads or headdresses maybe?

I am thinking this topic deserves a thread in and of itself...

Also, the posts in your Back Packing Light link, have so many similar reports of strange sounds and uneasy feelings in the Sespe area. These people seem like pretty hardcore campers and hikers, so I would suppose they don't get the jim jams just on a whim. Interesting.

I agree the whole fishermen account is strange. I mean I thought this area is WILDERNESS...not Mayberry. Two fishermen are just out throwing a line in and come across a befuddled, disheveled and distressed guy, and are like "...okie dokkie old son, we will take you back to your car and best of luck with all that..." "Lets get back to the fish!"

That is simply fishy (big pun intended)!

Thanks for the additional insights.

I have added this family to my prayer list, and I intend to find out today if anyone has established a fund for them. I have no idea if they need any financial help, but I know that firemen in general don't make the big bucks.

MissMissie

So a few years ago, I think I was 33, I went camping with my wife in southern oregon at Howard Prairie lake, jacksoncountyor.org...

It was late in the year and we were the only people at the campground other than 1 single guy camped behind us.

We had a great time and everything went smooth up until the second night. Me and my wife woke in the night at the same time. Something on the other side of the lake was making this crazy howling noise. It sounded like tarzan and was insanly loud for how far away it was. I realised had had this fear overtake my entire body. It was like a thick fog inside the tent.

I could not beleive or overcome how scared I was. Our two dogs, golden retreiver and basset hound whined with their ears down as if they were scared and jumped in bed with us. My wife had the same scared feeling come over her and she has been an outdoors hunter her entire life.

The noise I heard was the same noise I heard on a youtube video of bigfoot noises while messing around on the computer. I jst laid there gripping my 45 trying to listen. After about 10 minutes a second call came from my side of the lake about 300 yards away from my tent. They called to each other back and forth while we held still.

The fear was absolutely unbeleivable. This noise was like nothing I had ever heard and the vocals were so loud and deep. I had previously worked as a solo deputy in happy camp california for years. I never had any experience like this. My nearest backup was 78 miles away and i had several calls solo in the woods, with dead bodies, etc. I was never fearful in any situation up until this day.

Eventually the calls stopped and the fear left my body instantly. Afterwards I felt so calm I just fell asleep. The next morning I asked the guy camping next to me if he heard it and he had pretty much the same scared experience that we felt. I also never seen our dogs get scared like that before. Normally they want out to get whatever is making the noise.

Again this could be explained by humans making calls with loud speakers to freak people out, but nothing can explain that fear that comes over you.

Since then I have been camping, hiking, etc with nother abnormal happening. No scared feelings, no strange noises.

2:15

a reply to: deadeyedick
im not convinced about conspiring, maybe getting together in the future but not in the malicious way.
As far as the wife being present, where was she when the fisherman became involved? sitting in the car for 2 days? nah.

A shapeshifter, like the fabled skinwalker??