Firefighter chases dog and both are missing 411?

a reply to: randyvs


I think we both make a good point,we have to wait and see what the autopsy says and further info released to the public

A sad outcome indeed. Sympathy to his family and friends.
Having watched this from the beginning and noting earlier the lack of comprehensive reporting, I'll still say that this one appears to fit the pattern described in the books. Lots of things left unexplained.

Two reasons why he might have gone up there.

1. To make himself visible to the dog, or to call to the dog, in the hope the dog would see / hear him and come back to him.

2. To get his bearings. If I was lost in a hilly area I can imagine climbing up to a high point to try to work out where I was, or look for the nearest help.

originally posted by: VoidHawk
Two reasons why he might have gone up there.

1. To make himself visible to the dog, or to call to the dog, in the hope the dog would see / hear him and come back to him.

2. To get his bearings. If I was lost in a hilly area I can imagine climbing up to a high point to try to work out where I was, or look for the nearest help.

but why would he hike to 1200 FEET HIGHER with no shoes when his camp is less than a mile from the base of the cliff? i just cannot believe that this guy would continue hiking, looking for his dog with no shoes in the dark for a long enough distance to get lost. he's a trained firefighter. makes absolutely no sense.

a reply to: SonoftheSun

Me too.

My gosh this just doesn't make sense.

I respect other's opinions, but if you are in your right mind you are not going to go 1200 feet up, rather then down.

The only things not included in this case, that are criteria for Paulides' clusters, seems to be weather and berries.

Does any one know if there is a fund set up for his wife and child?

I just want to cry for them.

a reply to: seahawkshos040


he knew this area, he hiked there 5 different occasions...he may have taken after the dog without thinking, but once he got going over that rough terrain in bare feet, he would be feeling it ,running over stuff it would have been painful to his feet, wouldn't that take him out of the moment of running/not thinking mode??

So is this guy still missing? I can't imagine if he was just lost he would not have turned up by now...that leaves injury. I really hope this guy just got turned around and is still walking the wrong way home but I don't have a good feeling as of now.

originally posted by: research100
a reply to: randyvs


I think we both make a good point,we have to wait and see what the autopsy says and further info released to the public

Yes indeed, bit by bit we will know a little more but I think
this will be a bonafied mystery with a lot of suspicions hanging
overhead. Mostly about information with held.

originally posted by: research100
a reply to: seahawkshos040


he knew this area, he hiked there 5 different occasions...he may have taken after the dog without thinking, but once he got going over that rough terrain in bare feet, he would be feeling it ,running over stuff it would have been painful to his feet, wouldn't that take him out of the moment of running/not thinking mode??

i guess but how far away would you let yourself go from camp feeling that pain? if you have ever walked in a rocky forest/creek bed without shoes and socks you know that it hurts INSTANTLY. i cannot fathom a scenario where he was able to get far enough away from shouting distance from camp without shoes. he is professionally trained to keep his cool. who would freak out to the point that they run far enough to get lost without shoes to chase down a dog. it just doesn't make sense. then, if he is in a valley with a creek, there is only one way back to camp. thats it. down the creek. what would make you think a 1200 foot elevation gain is going to solve anything?

Geez you guys really need to stop with this Paulides 411 stuff. Really? All the facts haven't even come out yet. Keep in mind that in the 411 books A LOT of times the bodies are never even found. Keep that in mind. We don't know exactly what time Herdman died. And judging by the pictures they showed on the news reports (I'm in SoCal) the 1200 foot "cliff" was hardly a straight drop off. It was rugged yes, treacherous? Maybe! But it wasn't out of this world to think someone, even possibly in barefeet could have scaled it. And we still don't even know how mangled his body was. When the Sherrif says covered by brush you guys seem to think someone purposely covered him up or something……lol……those are his words……all he means is the guy probably fell or dropped where he was and rolled into the brush and it appeared it was "covering him up". IT probably just means they found his body tangled in some brush not really "covered" in or up by brush. FIgure of words.

Let's think about this…….these two guys take off after a dog either in the dark or close to the sun coming down. Yeah he's barefoot. But maybe he's got very well calloused feet like many on here claim can withstand trouncing around the wilderness. Keep in mind there are a lot of open dirt areas, rocks, boulders to hop on and off of, etc. It's believable maybe the georgraphy might not have been that bad for being barefoot. Who knows. So he goes after the dog and night falls. He's completely lost has no bearings. Instead of being stuck down by the river where he can't get a good idea of where he's at he decides to scale the closest cliff or mountain/hill whatever. Maybe he goes around it in a way where he took the most gradual approach. 3/4 of a mile away from camp really isn't all that far at all. So he gets up on top fo this "cliff" to see where he's at. maybe see if he can see his dog or whatever was going through his mind. Nothing pans out so he starts to descend trips falls, gets bit by a rattlesanke, gets startled by a wild animal.

Hell maybe he was down by the river chasing the dog and came into contact with a cougar and thought the best possible place would be to go uphill.

For Paulides to say nobody ever goes uphill……LOL well how does he know? Taking to higher ground in the wilderness makes sense in many scenarios and situations. Rain with possible flooding, being spooked by something at lower elevations, trying to get a better view of the area etc. Animals do it all the time. Why wouldn't humans have an instinctual nature to seek higher ground? I don't care how rugged wilderness is…….a human being can go places even wild animals can't. Maybe he was thinking about taking shelter for the night up against the cliffside etc. Hell maybe his friend pushed him off and over or down.

I think someone here or someone in the media really needs to post some specific pictures of the exact area where he disappeared. No one in this thread has any clue. We are all going by vague media reports and subject words and descriptions.

But let's entertain the 411 stuff for a minute. Ok so how many disappearances are there in Los Padres forest? How many people have gone missing never to even be found again? How many bigfoot sightings are in the area? How many UFO sightings etc? Any top secret military stuff going on? There are A LOT more questions to be answered before we can put this into the 411 category.

a reply to: RickyD

they found his body today. refer to a pages 19-21 for information

originally posted by: seahawkshos040

but why would he hike to 1200 FEET HIGHER with no shoes when his camp is less than a mile from the base of the cliff?

Because the highest point offers the best view. Assume he's lost his bearings, whats the easiest way to find his camp? Gain enough hight to be able to see it.

originally posted by: seahawkshos040
he's a trained firefighter. makes absolutely no sense.

Makes no difference when lost!

The fact is, he DID climb 300mtrs.
A far more interesting question I think is why he didn't come back down! A hear attack?

a reply to: GreenMtnBoys

they did post pictures at the press conference. it was very steep and rugged.

If I could have any job in the world, it would be to help people/locating the missing.

Wish there was something I could have done 1000 miles away, looking at the photos of his wife/child break my heart.

a reply to: GreenMtnBoys

Geez you guys really need to stop with this Paulides 411 stuff. Really? All the facts haven't even come out yet. Keep in mind that in the 411 books A LOT of times the bodies are never even found. Keep that in mind. We don't know exactly what time Herdman died.

Um hello! Perhaps you didn't notice the heading

a reply to: FistOfFreedom

Wish there was something I could have done 1000 miles away, looking at the photos of his wife/child break my heart.

I'm sure this is the consensus here on ATS. I know I feel the same way.

www.andremount.net...

Check out this website……….these people took some really beautiful pictures of the Sespe area. Man it's gorgeous!!!! Terrain looks pretty rugged but nothing that a skilled outdoorsman couldn't navigate responsibly and safely. And at night with a full moon and good natural night vision you'd be surprised how well you can see the ground too!

Anyways, if you look through all the pictures there are a few ominous ones that show evidence of bums or others possibly hiding out and using an old shack. Even a disconcerting sign that reads Welcome To Sespe….Now Go Home. I think many people would be very surprised to know who actually hangs out and travels through these backcountry areas nowadays. Lost of nefarious people out there in the world, drifters, homeless, stupid teenagers, etc. I wonder just how alone these two guys really were that night.

a reply to: seahawkshos040

I saw a few. One was of a rescuer sitting on the so called "cliff" where the body was found. It was rugged but hardly anything mindblowingly treacherous. I think "rugged" is a very subjective term. Especially for people who've never spent a lot of time in the backcountry. Even a sheriff might think a place is "rugged" when someone who's a regular hiker/backpacker would laugh at the term.

a reply to: randyvs

Even $10 bucks a piece...come on these folks are going to need help.

a reply to: GreenMtnBoys

You're making some good posts, no doubt. I just wanted to
reinforce my stance here from the beginning. I sighted this
early on as fitting the 411 criteria and that's why I decided it
was thread worhty to this venue. So i hope you can see where
I'm coming from.