Stanton Friedman's thoughts on interstellar travel

a reply to: Erno86

Wow that sounds intense! Do you have a link to the Fawn Grove pics? I live in PA, I'd love to go check that place out myself.

That's simply false. Science is not only the study of matter (Did you mean, mass?). In astrophysics for example, there's research dedicated to understanding negative energy and anti-matter. Science is simply a blanket term for a method to seek understanding of the inner workings of anything. This is why there are different fields of science. Hell, light has no mass. We have come to understand photons and waves quite extensively.

If there were any evidence of an astral plane or telepathy, many scientists would be quite fascinated and interested. Unfortunately, there's zero proof of either.

Thats where the problem begins. People like Sheldrake have done extensive research on telepathy only to be labelled as un-scientific by the éxperts´. In reality, the people who haven´t done anything in regards to telepathy, are simply not interested.

So by turning down someone else´s research, they are concluding that telepathy cannot be verified because it doesn´t exist. To them, evidence for telepathy does not exist because there is no such thing as telepathy.

originally posted by: parad0x122
a reply to: Erno86

Wow that sounds intense! Do you have a link to the Fawn Grove pics? I live in PA, I'd love to go check that place out myself.

I still don't know how to link my pictures off my computer yet.

But the Fawn Grove, Pa. UFO landing investigation case, is in the MUFON UFO Journal, Number 1 Sept. 1977 --- or you can read my partial typed investigation of MUFON's case in the Maryland Shooters Forum.

Go to the forum display: Industry Partners to Thunderstick Enterprises, Fawn Grove, Pa. Go to Goldengoose's thread, labled "Christians & Guns", and my [Erno86] posts numbered #7 and #8.

If you're interested...you can check out my picture that I took in the summer of 1972, at Calvert Cliffs, Maryland, of a possible ET alien entity.

It's on YouTube titled: Space Alien Hiding Behind Fossil Rock

originally posted by: radkrish

So by turning down someone else´s research, they are concluding that telepathy cannot be verified because it doesn´t exist. To them, evidence for telepathy does not exist because there is no such thing as telepathy.

The Randi foundation are offering a $1 million prize to anyone who can prove their psychic powers, so far nobody has made it past round one, ever. Nobody has even performed better than one would do by guessing.

From what i've reat so far i'm agreeing that fusion may not be the holy grail for interstellar journeys. In fact, i think it will be one of the favourite systems for interplanetary travelling within the future.

Still i think, that a propulsion system, based on rather classical ways (chemical reaction, solar sail supported by laser beams, things like that) may be some of the first ways, to travel to our nearest star systems. Btw there is a risk to get in contact with "material" from space but even within the cuiper belt (a relatively dense region of all kinds of asteroids, dwarf planets and such) the risk to be hit by something from outside, when passing through, isn't that high as one might expect.

However, for real interstellar travel you'll need something more efficient. I know that warp theory sounds crazy...simply because it is ...but there has been some scientific approach on that matter and about two decades ago some scientist reviewed an older paper, that adressed this issue. Here's the Link but most of you (including myself) might have a problem to understand the whole meaning of it.

Basically it says, that a warp drive could be done but it needs some exotic matter. This part isn't really surprising, since the older theory also stated that. But Van Den Broeck showed, that you won't need an almost infinite amount of it but "only" the amount equivalent to a sun's mass (or two ).

Of course it's highly speculative and where to get this kind of exotic matter no one can tell you but it shows me, that people will find a way...one day.

originally posted by: Tichy\

Basically it says, that a warp drive could be done but it needs some exotic matter. This part isn't really surprising, since the older theory also stated that. But Van Den Broeck showed, that you won't need an almost infinite amount of it but "only" the amount equivalent to a sun's mass (or two

).

Of course it's highly speculative and where to get this kind of exotic matter no one can tell you but it shows me, that people will find a way...one day.

I suspect that if we find such exotic matter it will be spotted by astronomers in some place beyond our solar system. In order to gather it to mine and harness it we will need to get there in non-warp ships.

So all interstellar travel ideas be it conventional propulsion with fission or fusion rockets, light sails, or mag sails should be thoroughly investigated so that we can reach it at that point in the future where warp drive technology only needs the fuel.

originally posted by: JadeStar

originally posted by: Tichy\

Basically it says, that a warp drive could be done but it needs some exotic matter. This part isn't really surprising, since the older theory also stated that. But Van Den Broeck showed, that you won't need an almost infinite amount of it but "only" the amount equivalent to a sun's mass (or two

).

Of course it's highly speculative and where to get this kind of exotic matter no one can tell you but it shows me, that people will find a way...one day.

I suspect that if we find such exotic matter it will be spotted by astronomers in some place beyond our solar system. In order to gather it to mine and harness it we will need to get there in non-warp ships.

So all interstellar travel ideas be it conventional propulsion with fission or fusion rockets, light sails, or mag sails should be thoroughly investigated so that we can reach it at that point in the future where warp drive technology only needs the fuel.

Ehehehehe.

Dr. White, at NASA, is using an electric charge as a proxy for exotic matter. He believes that an electric field can create a space warp. If this is possible, it may greatly simplify the problem of creating a warp drive.
He has been using 20 kilovolts in a static field. Electric potentials of up to 32 megavolts have been produced. This seems to offer a great deal of room for further experimentation.
So does the possibility, perceived by Dr. White in his theoretical work, that an oscillating electric field may be a more efficient means of producing a space warp, than a static one. It's intriguing to think that something as well established in scientific knowledge as an oscillating electric field could be the key to a warp drive.

originally posted by: Ross 54
Dr. White, at NASA, is using an electric charge as a proxy for exotic matter. He believes that an electric field can create a space warp. If this is possible, it may greatly simplify the problem of creating a warp drive.
He has been using 20 kilovolts in a static field. Electric potentials of up to 32 megavolts have been produced. This seems to offer a great deal of room for further experimentation.
So does the possibility, perceived by Dr. White in his theoretical work, that an oscillating electric field may be a more efficient means of producing a space warp, than a static one. It's intriguing to think that something as well established in scientific knowledge as an oscillating electric field could be the key to a warp drive.

yeah, oscillating the field actually changes what he calls the permitivity of space. when used WRT to space; permitivity means the resistance of space to deformation from it's normal geometry. in other words it makes space easier to bend.

permitivity here is different from permitivity when talking about capacitance or the ease with which electrical and magnetic fields penetrate various materials.

a reply to: Sharted

For me fusion is not the answer to interstellar travel. Anyone else have thoughts on this?

All we have to dissect are reports of "abducted" persons who claim to have been aboard these craft. One compelling recount is Travis Walton (Fire in the Sky). His idea that the ship was dirty beyond belief and "crewed" by these thin old codgers is a good clue.

Comparing his "eyewitness' testimony to ancient sailing ships that sailed the seas, encrusted with barnacles and sea goo, manned by leathery old salts, gone "ocean" long ago.

How they row, sail or steam or… we haven't a clue.

originally posted by: Tichy
From what i've reat so far i'm agreeing that fusion may not be the holy grail for interstellar journeys. In fact, i think it will be one of the favourite systems for interplanetary travelling within the future.

Still i think, that a propulsion system, based on rather classical ways (chemical reaction, solar sail supported by laser beams, things like that) may be some of the first ways, to travel to our nearest star systems. Btw there is a risk to get in contact with "material" from space but even within the cuiper belt (a relatively dense region of all kinds of asteroids, dwarf planets and such) the risk to be hit by something from outside, when passing through, isn't that high as one might expect.

However, for real interstellar travel you'll need something more efficient. I know that warp theory sounds crazy...simply because it is

...but there has been some scientific approach on that matter and about two decades ago some scientist reviewed an older paper, that adressed this issue. Here's the Link but most of you (including myself) might have a problem to understand the whole meaning of it.

Basically it says, that a warp drive could be done but it needs some exotic matter. This part isn't really surprising, since the older theory also stated that. But Van Den Broeck showed, that you won't need an almost infinite amount of it but "only" the amount equivalent to a sun's mass (or two

).

Of course it's highly speculative and where to get this kind of exotic matter no one can tell you but it shows me, that people will find a way...one day.

Chemical system would require an immense amount of time and a fuel tank bigger than the solar system.

exotic matter is equivelent to exotic energy and we can make some of that. not much mind you. but there are various ways to make tiny amounts of it for tiny amounts of time provided that the amount of regular energy used dwarf it.for example using squeezed light waveforms there are momentary valleys in the wave form's over all energy that are negative energy by a tiny proportion of the over all wave form for a very tiny interval of time.

but i do not think negative energy is necessary at all.

imagine yourself on the surface of the earth. gravity pulls you in the direction of the center of the earth. now... imagine a slightly more massive than earth sized body hovering over you as you stand on the earth. now there is a larger gravitational force pulling you upwards. the vector sum of the two gravitational forces acting on you would result in an apparent anti-gravity force WRT earth gravity.

at a cosmological level the curvature of the region in the reference frame containing you and the earth would be negative. put another way space would be warped in such a way that your gravity is negative or reversed.

what i am saying is positive deformation can be arranged in such a way as to for all practical purposes behave as if it is exotic.

a reply to: JadeStar

Maybe one doesn't even need to visit the "neighbour" to get a sufficient amount of antimatter (antiprotons), that is enough to serve as fuel for spaceships or probes for interplanetary travel.

Based on the PAMELA experiment, a group of scientists could show, that there's a certain amount of antiprotons, trapped in the magnetosphere of our earth (and are a result of interactions between cosmic rays and the terrestrial atmosphere).

I'm not sure if it really could serve as a potential pool but it sounds promising.

Some even speculate, if there couldn't be huge amounts of antimatter particles trapped within the magnetosphere of Jupiter, since he has the biggest magnetic field within our solar system.

originally posted by: Sharted

originally posted by: radkrish

So by turning down someone else´s research, they are concluding that telepathy cannot be verified because it doesn´t exist. To them, evidence for telepathy does not exist because there is no such thing as telepathy.

The Randi foundation are offering a $1 million prize to anyone who can prove their psychic powers, so far nobody has made it past round one, ever. Nobody has even performed better than one would do by guessing.

During the one minute time between my foofighter sighting/sightings in 1976...I seemed to sense the presence of a highly intelligent alien entity, somewhere in the sky above our heads.

a reply to: Tichy

I thought antimatter cancelled itself out when it hit matter of any sort, at least that's their explanation of the big bang. For all we know dark matter could the be so-called exotic matter, and we can't seem to figure that out either. Not yet anyway.

originally posted by: Tichy

Some even speculate, if there couldn't be huge amounts of antimatter particles trapped within the magnetosphere of Jupiter, since he has the biggest magnetic field within our solar system.

The flux tube is a remarkable place.

originally posted by: Tichy
a reply to: JadeStar

Maybe one doesn't even need to visit the "neighbour" to get a sufficient amount of antimatter (antiprotons), that is enough to serve as fuel for spaceships or probes for interplanetary travel.

Based on the PAMELA experiment, a group of scientists could show, that there's a certain amount of antiprotons, trapped in the magnetosphere of our earth (and are a result of interactions between cosmic rays and the terrestrial atmosphere).

I'm not sure if it really could serve as a potential pool but it sounds promising.

Some even speculate, if there couldn't be huge amounts of antimatter particles trapped within the magnetosphere of Jupiter, since he has the biggest magnetic field within our solar system.

Not only is everything you just said true but there are additional sources of antimatter in the solar system every place that has a magnetic field,the sun, and the heliopause even thunderstorms on earth. Furthermore over the years our ability to manufacture antimatter have improved at a greater than exponential rate. the last news i read was an article that said we could produce about a gram a year with just one machine. antimatter power is growing up fast.

EDIT: there are several space ship designs that can do a mission on less than a gram.

ICAN series:

Antimatter catalyzed nuclear pulse propulsion:

en.wikipedia.org...

140 nanograms to mars in 30 days! Wheeeeeee!



AIM and AIMSTAR series.

orbitalvector.com...

28 micrograms per 10K astronomical Units

a reply to: stormbringer1701

I recall also that there isn't enough chemical fuel in the universe to get us to Alpha Centauri, so that's a bit of a bummer even if we wanted to use it we couldn't. Unsure how accurate that comment was though, I think it was on Through the Wormhole.

originally posted by: Sharted
a reply to: stormbringer1701

I recall also that there isn't enough chemical fuel in the universe to get us to Alpha Centauri, so that's a bit of a bummer even if we wanted to use it we couldn't. Unsure how accurate that comment was though, I think it was on Through the Wormhole.

it's basically true; i'm afraid. ...for the normal periodical table, anyway. but if the bond lengths were shorter they would contain more energy. chemistry with hypothetical exotic atoms (different meaning here than exotic matter or energy that was used earlier) could have the power of atomic bombs.

say if an atom had a proton analog that was tinier than a proton and an electron that orbited closer as a result, the energy would be larger. this stuff could be called non baryonic matter or paramatter or something like that. whatever there have been synthetic atoms made of kaons and muons. these are highly unstable and disintegrate nearly instantly but there could be some similar stuff that is stable. (a neutron is unstable on its own but stable in a nucleus) monopoles are postulated as a possible building block for psuedo matter or whatever you want to name it.

the upshot monopole atoms would be capable of chemistry just like regular matter but because of the bonding energy they would have 2000 times the density as the nuclei would be closer and the electronic bonds would be shorter. they would be impervious to anything but an upper end hard gamma ray and would not melt if you dipped them into the sun. chemical reactions that were exothermal would be 2000 times more powerful than corresponding normal exothermal reactions. nuclear energy would be simularly more powerful than regular uranium and plutonium.

a reply to: stormbringer1701

Thanks for the link(s) .

@Sharted

I thought antimatter cancelled itself out when it hit matter of any sort, at least that's their explanation of the big bang.

Thats true but we're speaking about "trapped" particles. They are trapped within a magnetic field, so that they don't get in contact with "normal" matter from the atmosphere (for example) for a certain amount of time. Of course, after a while they will and then annihilate but i can't say how long this takes on average.