Stanton Friedman's thoughts on interstellar travel

originally posted by: EnPassant
a reply to: Sharted

Friedman is a physicist and thinks in these terms. Strieber said our space program has "lead feet". We need to go beyond simple horse-and-cart technology...

For sure. But in the past 150 years we did produce a lot of technology, far more than the previous 3,000 years. Now the internet is here and everyone has cell phones the invention process will increase dramatically. Of course, bureaucracy is a bit of a wall nowadays, as is money. It would help if we all work as one whole world, yet we have things like the UN (even though America ignores them at will). Yes we have wars, but a majority of those wars are due to money (oil) and/or religion. Take those two variables away and things could change; unlikely since oil is power and governments crave that more than anything else. I imagine an advanced alien race doesn't care about material things and greed. We are a long way off that unfortunately. Democracy is basically an oligarchy for the very rich people in society, and unless that changes soon we are all screwed.

If the UN actually had power we could work as one world and pool our resources to enter the space race. At present even the UK doesn't bother with it, which I think is a bit lame considering they copy America at everything else. Developed countries could contribute a bit more than developing ones and the money would make a big difference. It might even help international relations between warring factions. Unlikely to happen though because people are obsessed with money and power. Megalomania is not the right impression to give any other race.

and the part of the video that gets into cosmic back reaction begins at 24:10 or so. but it is covered in brief in the Q&A when he is questioned on some implications of it.

EDIT: Q&A begins at 29:20

Cavitation. Star in a Jar, pistol shrimp. Cold Fusion, energy release is instant. Reaches the temperature of the sun's corona. Its what stars themselves do.

Its not going to matter though, if Sleeper is right.

www.ufolou.com...

His 2 cents on the craft leaving the solar system and its a very good article. The solar system itself is huge and we're heading that way with ruins and civilizations, we won't be aware of the current ones until we are ready. Not even the leaders will be leaving, because it takes integrity and goodness to be let out of the playpen.

Time goes by with age of a stellar body?

Once one leaves the confines of time within a planet/solar system, time/age slows way down?

originally posted by: Erno86
Any alien starship that has visited our planet in the past or near future --- would have to be capable of faster than light speeds while in the superluminal realm ---

You sure do have a way of making that sound as if it's a fact. What does this even mean?
The word "superliminal" literally means "faster than light"....
Soo....Yeah, a ship that is capable of FTL travel, would indeed, be within the realm of FTL travel. I'm lost at what you're trying to get at here. Could you explain a little further please? Furthermore, how do you know that this is a necessity for every Alien race that may/may not have visited us? I'm just as much for speculation as the next guy, but you're kind of putting unnecessary restraints in places they don't necessarily need to be in my opinion.

originally posted by: parad0x122

originally posted by: Erno86
Any alien starship that has visited our planet in the past or near future --- would have to be capable of faster than light speeds while in the superluminal realm ---

You sure do have a way of making that sound as if it's a fact. What does this even mean?
The word "superliminal" literally means "faster than light"....
Soo....Yeah, a ship that is capable of FTL travel, would indeed, be within the realm of FTL travel. I'm lost at what you're trying to get at here. Could you explain a little further please? Furthermore, how do you know that this is a necessity for every Alien race that may/may not have visited us? I'm just as much for speculation as the next guy, but you're kind of putting unnecessary restraints in places they don't necessarily need to be in my opinion.

From what I can gather they do not travel THROUGH space at all. They travel as spirits on the astral plane/extra dimensions and can, from there, project a physical object or even a physical alien body, from one point in space to another, without it having to travel through the intervening space.

People have seen this happening; ufos disappear or appear out of thin air. In the Friendship case the witnesses said the can make objects disappear and materialize somewhere else.

originally posted by: LogicalRazor
The answer to interstellar travel is not achieving lightspeed (Or faster than lightspeed, for that matter). The faster you travel, the faster you travel towards matter in front of you. Eventually, that matter would be akin to hitting a solid wall. That is not the answer. We would need to "jump" between two points in space by bending space-time or accessing/opening a wormhole.

I agree, the very possibility of bending space in front of you into a wave to surf, or project a gravity well in front of you (carrot on string without the stick, or the string).

The possibility with quantum mechanics and superposition and entanglement, we are more likely to "get places" faster in 100 years from now without accelerating or needing inertia compensation etc. - far more likely.

however what whatever insane effective we are talking about, it might as well be called teleportation, because at light speed if actually speed, or a wormhole jump, practically instant to all observers.

a reply to: EnPassant

Okay...but how do you know that you aren't witnessing a ship emerging through the endpoint of a wormhole, and not exiting the astral plane?

originally posted by: parad0x122

originally posted by: Erno86
Any alien starship that has visited our planet in the past or near future --- would have to be capable of faster than light speeds while in the superluminal realm ---

You sure do have a way of making that sound as if it's a fact. What does this even mean?
The word "superliminal" literally means "faster than light"....
Soo....Yeah, a ship that is capable of FTL travel, would indeed, be within the realm of FTL travel. I'm lost at what you're trying to get at here. Could you explain a little further please? Furthermore, how do you know that this is a necessity for every Alien race that may/may not have visited us? I'm just as much for speculation as the next guy, but you're kind of putting unnecessary restraints in places they don't necessarily need to be in my opinion.

Well...it's based on my own observation of an alien starship, one night in November of 1976, approx. 40 miles west of Washington D.C.. My conclusion is based on simple natural deduction --- including other peoples witnessed observational sightings of other foofighters as well --- compared too some deductions, that just seem more complicated --- IMO --- than interstellar travel should ever be.

When on a power surge at night --- I speculate that in places that lack sufficient starlight, the plasma serves as fuel for the micro-mini black hole propulsion unit ---- the starship cannot be cloaked because it needs the fusion plasma too feed the propulsion unit --- other than the electrically charged plasma --- which can also be used as an offensive and defensive weapon.

Of course...in the wide open spaces between star systems --- the black hole propulsion unit on the starship --- can gravitationally attract starlight photons, expel them with tremendous thrust, increasing speed --- exponentially squared --- easily up to the speed of light barrier and beyond into the superluminal realm.


May I suggest reading Edward J. Ruppelt's book --- which is free online ---- The Report on Unidentified Flying Objects, which mainly consists of sightings very similar too my very own.

originally posted by: stormbringer1701


Its not matter that stops one from accelerating as you reach near light speed. I

I am well aware of this & actually mentioned it briefly. That was just ONE of the issues. While in general, matter is scarce and few and far between if you are accelerating at or faster than light speed, something the size of a bowling ball can ruin your weekend.

But alas, the bigger issue is that even at or slightly faster than light speed, it would still take a great amount of time to explore distant galaxies. I'm still convinced we need to find a way to simply "skip" or jump these distances, rather than travel between them in linear space.

originally posted by: parad0x122
a reply to: EnPassant

Okay...but how do you know that you aren't witnessing a ship emerging through the endpoint of a wormhole, and not exiting the astral plane?

I guess it would be much the same thing? Wormholes are very theoretical but there is much supporting evidence for the astral plane from paranormal studies.

In our human history technology started as a physical thing - steam engines, tools, mechanical devices etc. Then, with the invention of the electric motor and the dynamo there was a quantum leap. There was a marriage between physical matter and electromagnetism. This started a revolution in technology.

Then there was a fusion of the physical and computers. We now have a technology that is based on the physical married to electromagnetism and coupled with computing power.

The aliens have added a fourth element to this. They use psychic power - the power of the mind - in conjunction with the other three.

originally posted by: EnPassant
The aliens have added a fourth element to this. They use psychic power - the power of the mind - in conjunction with the other three.

I don't know about the "alien" part, but I tend to think that the answer is somewhere along these lines. That perception is the process of incorporating yourself into your location, yet there is possibly some way to "be" somewhere by artificially amplifying your perceptions to the point where you create your time and location around you. Travel by amplified imagination, essentially.

originally posted by: EnPassant

Wormholes are very theoretical but there is much supporting evidence for the astral plane from paranormal studies.

There is indirect evidence to support wormholes. The physics and the math support it & their existance would not violate known physics.There is absolutely no evidence of an "astral plane". A term that was coined to describe something that happened only in the imagination of people. There is no scientific basis behind it....at all. There's a difference between "theory" and scientific theory.

originally posted by: EnPassant

The aliens have added a fourth element to this. They use psychic power - the power of the mind - in conjunction with the other three.

Ummm wut lol? There is no evidence to support that statement. No credible sources. No peer reviewed research and no detailed mathematical theorem that can be tested. However probable, the existence of an intelligent alien civilization has never been confirmed, much less their technological prowess or their biological or paranormal capabilities. That is pure science fiction.

even .5 light speed would allow us to make two way trips to stars within 6 or so light years. and one way trips would be feasible to about 13 or so light years. at light speed one way trips anywhere would be feasible because at that speed the crew would only experience a few weeks of time even going across the galaxy. logistically they would only need that amount of times food, water, oxygen and TP.


defense against impactors when travelling in real space (as opposed to warps or wormholes) is daunting at relativistic speed. its even hard at orbital speeds. but it is doable. i have seen designs for beamed core antimatter ships that travel at 92 percent light speed that that use the radiator coolant in a molten drop curtain type radiator to turn impactors into coolant for example. plus anything bigger than a dust mote is rare and the spacing between impactors is very very large. most could be electrostatically deflected with a magneto plasma bubble and a laser to charge the particles. and there are mundane shielding schemes like large ice columns, shear thickening fluidic armors, tungsten plates, wiffle shields and so forth.

plus i bet that some warp scheme or some wormhole scheme will eventually be proven valid. but if they don't; we can still get to the local stellar nieghborhood.

originally posted by: LogicalRazor

originally posted by: stormbringer1701


Its not matter that stops one from accelerating as you reach near light speed. I

I am well aware of this & actually mentioned it briefly. That was just ONE of the issues. While in general, matter is scarce and few and far between if you are accelerating at or faster than light speed, something the size of a bowling ball can ruin your weekend.

But alas, the bigger issue is that even at or slightly faster than light speed, it would still take a great amount of time to explore distant galaxies. I'm still convinced we need to find a way to simply "skip" or jump these distances, rather than travel between them in linear space.

'I think, therefore I am'


^^

The solution to every thing is to think.

Literally.

a reply to: EnPassant

I'm sorry, but I feel like I'm just spinning around in circles. None of what you said to support your side of the argument is based on fact. Actually it's the opposite. There are plenty of indirect evidence of the existence of wormholes, off the top of my head the "Cold Spot" comes to mind. You said it yourself, even the idea of the astral plane's existence is only supported by paranormal studies. Not science. Not physics.

I don't like mixing spirituality with logical thought processes. Too much wiggle room.

a reply to: Erno86

Okay...so you're essentially admitting that your initial statement is speculative, even if based off of 3rd party testimony combined with one personal sighting. This I can understand. I still don't agree with the idea of thinking that every alien that may have visited us used the same technology even, but that's a different discussion all together. Thanks for clearing it up! Did you happen to get any pictures of your sighting in the 70's?

a reply to: LogicalRazor

+1 on everything you posted. My thoughts exactly.

Let me add seven years to travel to the nearest start is pennies compared to living on spacecraft permanently for some. Yes, I'm suggesting people or beings that have fusion may live on spacecraft, not on planets. There's an abundance of space out there, but not as many planets, and planets can't (at this point) travel to other stars. SO if the aliens are living on the spacecraft already then it's not surprising they'll travel seven years to another star - it's a walk in the park for them.

Additionally, if He3 turns out to be the ideal source for fusion, they may travel to other stars to harness it if they've exhausted it in their home system. If not, traveling to other stars might instead just be where their spacecraft happens to go. And where it goes matters less than the fact they're living a large portion of their lives on spacecraft.

In our own system, we might mine He3 on the moon and then travel to the gas giants to mine it in their atmospheres. This may not be somethign that actually happens, but it's worth saying I think.

I think it's very plausible anyway to travel to another star in seven years. We may find ways of suspended animation too. Keep in mind people made many months voyages on big boats 100's of years ago. Christopher Columbus, on his third voyage, sailed for 2 months without a port call - he did have a couple ships loaded with supplies. Granted, many explorers stopped at places along their several month voyages, but it's not a stretch for space aliens to go seven years, imho. In fact, we could be amiss by far. Aliens might travel 1000+ year voyages or longer.

Look here:
worldrecordacademy.com - Longest sea voyage - world record set by Reid Stowe...

.........
Stowe docked his 70ft schooner in Manhattan in New York City. It was the first time he had touched land in 1,152 days. He anchored in New Jersey for a few days but didn't get off the boat.

“This is a new human experience,” Reid said on arrival. “For three years I’ve been humble and silent, living very close to God and death.”

Stowe said his trip breaks a record from the 1890s when a Norwegian ship traveled for 1,067 days. Stowe said he didn't get the record verified with Guinness World Records beforehand because he couldn't afford the entrance fee.
..........

Also keep in mind the military can keep ships out on the water for a couple months potentially - I think they do have supply ships though.