so how is online piracy justified again?

a reply to: MeteoraXV

buying a container of entertainment (be it a disc or a file) is not the same as buying a toothpick or a pair of glasses or whatever. the seller doesn't care what you do with the toothpick or glasses - however, with the sale of entertainment it's a very different very deep and very complex situation.

Lets imagine that 100 years from now some mad scientist invents a device which can replicate any object down to the atomic structure. He then starts replicating and selling the cloned objects at a discounted price to make a huge profit. You can bet your bottom dollar that if he starts cloning patented tooth picks then the company who makes the toothpick is going to be all over him. The point I'm making is that if physical objects could be replicated as easily as digital information, there would be all sorts of rules about cloning your physical products, even if you were cloning them and giving them out for free you'd be attacked by the companies why originally made the item, because you're undercutting their profits. At the end of the day it really all comes down to profit. If I had like a weekly "movie night" where I invited hundreds of people to come watch the latest movies at my house, and I made a big spectacle out of it, I'm betting it wouldn't be long before I had lawyers all over me because a lot of those people probably would have spent money to see those movies had they not watched them at my house.

originally posted by: MeteoraXV
a reply to: Thefarmer
well if you can not afford, then too bad.

Why would I do that when I could borrow it from a friend down the street? Seems completely legal right? What about if I'm lazy so I get him to email me a copy of the movie and then I delete it once I'm done watching it? I was probably never going to watch it again anyway. What about if I download it from someone who has freely uploaded it to the internet and then I delete it once I'm done?

hows justifiable? Or when even...

When something is sold at 70 a pop and sells 32.5 million copies... when they could sell for 35 and still make a HUGE profit. And then come the DLCs...

As long as games sell for 70 a pop, piracy is justifiable considering the ALL the revenue from ALL sides. I'm sorry.

Oh yea and those freakin iphones... 600? Ok... if someone can get one for 100 a unlock it - fine - because they're done for a fraction.

If I try to make something in my home and sell it to you for 1000% more, you'll call me every name on this earth, try to sue me, and probably I'll still have to beat you up because you'll come to my house with a baseball bat... but you wont be doing that to Apple, Rockstar, Zenimax, Microsoft, Pixar, Universal, or any of them will you?

So... Thats my take on piracy. But my take on piracy is also for personal use - I dont profit out of it, so... I'm "Mr White".

a reply to: MeteoraXV

Yes that did sound offensive but oh well

And yes I can afford to go that is not what I'm saying

My point is a hell of a lot of people can't!

a reply to: TrueBrit
cool i'm a bit of a metalhead myself but not so much. yeah metallica has definitely benefited from bootlegging. see this is good material folks, thanks for the story man, now this is something i can agree with, though it only concerns the hypocrisy of metallica in particular (and other artists in a similar situation). i like lars but i also don't like him because he is like a random white person denying that, while maybe not specifically him as an individual, but the european peoples as a whole, benefit in someway from colonialism and imperialism (we get to live on other lands than just europe, we get to be born on many many many other beautiful continents and islands, we get to have "lebensraum", if you will). lars' band and connected entities (the managers, the label, the industry) (in)directly benefited from the guys who bootlegged their early shows, yet i have not heard of him thanking those early bootleggers for that. and yeah if he said that there are legal concerns about bootlegging i would have to agree with that but then again, you bald bastard, you have a big part of your fame (THE biggest metal band that ever was and ever will be) thanks to those bootleggers from the early days. the piracy thing is a different story though, but the thing about lars is mainly about hypocrisy. i also don't condone bootlegging

a reply to: mOjOm
you can share a movie or music as long as no copies are made, even if you then gave out these copies for free (which means no profit). as long as you pass the original disc over to the other person or you invite them over to your home to watch or listen (it depends, i don't know much about hbo but i'm sure they give out all the necessary info) - there's no problem.

a reply to: Mianeye
yeah that doesn't make any sense because there is no law stating that you must wipe out the last hour and a half or so memory from your mind because you viewed a movie.

a reply to: MeteoraXV
Legal and lawful are two wholly different things.
Legal does not always make it right.
Either way it is no matter, the whole world knows lars and Co. are sellouts.
Their reputation is forever tarnished and some things you just can't get back.

a reply to: ChaoticOrder
1) yet you don't need music/shows to survive. these things are not throwing themselves at you forcing you to watch them. you seek them out. y'know, entitlement mentality...
2) you can want whatever you want but you don't have a say in when something is released. the owners of the product can release a movie ten years after it is premiered if they want to
3) that sucks, best make a list and see if they can be acquired at a later point in time
4) good, that's not a problem yet it doesn't justify illegal downloading
5) i agree and i guess this is the ultimate argument in favor of piracy, at least in terms of morality - humans are greedy and never content and thus there's no stopping them from breaking the law, not just piracy laws - there are millions of wrongdoings of many types being committed

a reply to: ChaoticOrder
it's not clear what constitutes piracy
really
Most people upload their movies and shows to the internet without expecting any compensation, they freely share it with others.
if they hold the copyright to the movies and shows that they are sharing, then there is no problem. youtubers can upload their own homemade amateur clips or professionally made films on the site because they own the copyright. if you upload something that you don't own the copyright to, that is illegal.
if I bought a DVD and then let my neighbors watch it with me, I wouldn't expect them to pay me. But at what point have I shared it with too many people, that is the fundamental question mOjOm is asking. Is it too many if I invite over 100 or 1000 people or does it only become too many when I upload it to the internet?
no because the dvd in question is a single product already bought and paid for by you, which means that the industry has been compensated. you are not making copies of it. with regards to m0j0m's post about inviting people over to watch hbo, i have been informed by SpaDe_ that "the subscription is meant for your personal viewing and it clearly states in your contract that it is not to be broadcast to an audience outside your households occupants". thank you SpaDe_, i learned something again. so i don't know if this particular stipulation applies to your dvd that you invite your neighbours over to watch as well, but you get the point.

uploading material that you do not own the copyright to, to the internet, again, is illegal.

a reply to: MeteoraXV

I read nothing but your OP, well most of it, I got sick, puked, and had to stop.

Lets put it this way.

Your opinion obviously comes from the upper class view point.

Your not one of the folks that cant afford to pay for a $15 ticket a $10 32oz fountain drink and a $15 medium popcorn........lets see here, $40 for about $12 worth of entertainment.....why would anyone ever choose to go around this stupid and idiotic shakedown?

I mean we all have millions in the bank, it isnt like I only have $39 in my bank account and want to see and "enjoy" watching a movie.

Piracy on the net would evaporate over night if the already stupid rich didnt overcharge for crap product.


Point blank, the movies charges at least 3 times what it is worth, maybe even up to^6times at some locations.

I say you have an upper class point of view simply because you assume( PLZ dont make an ASS out of U and ME) everyone has your bank balance to work with.

I assure you, most vehemently , we poor people of the world world would love nothing more than to pay for all we get, we want to work and pay for our goods and services.

We are poor though, we cant pay what you want.

We still want to see your work, we still admire your skills, we all love and enjoy the masterpiece you have made. We just cant afford to pay an outrageous sum, for a mediocre product.

Sorry if this isnt resonating well in beverly hills, but honestly, most folks are broke, and the number like you that actually has money is shrinking every day so those like you can have more you dont need and have absolutely no use for.

Now excuse me, while I go back my my crap paying job, I work over 40 hours a week at least 6 days a week, even today, on fathers day, and make as much for 8 hours as you made in 8 seconds.

a reply to: ChaoticOrder
well of course it all comes down to profit! these movies, videogames, music, comics, tv shows and books don't just come out of nowhere you know. modern humans are inherently lazy, if there was no money there would be no incentive to create. we create mass entertainment because of the desire to express one's creativity and because of profit. these two are both inextricably linked. take away the profit side of entertainment, and the industry would fall apart, a LOT of people would not be motivated to create, and we would have only sh-tty cheap/free amateur crap and maybe a few quality works. not saying that the big entertainment industry is perfect with regards to quality of entertainment but it's better than the other scenario i described. people can forget about their oh so beloved game of thrones if you take away hbo's profit. i don't care if they already have trillions. they sell a product and you want it so you pay for it.
If I had like a weekly "movie night" where I invited hundreds of people to come watch the latest movies at my house, and I made a big spectacle out of it
if you made a big spectacle out of it, then that would turn the otherwise private viewing event, which is lawful, into a public viewing event, which is unlawful.

a reply to: ChaoticOrder
Why would I do that when I could borrow it from a friend down the street?
how can you borrow a cinema viewing of the new x-men movie?
What about if I'm lazy so I get him to email me a copy of the movie and then I delete it once I'm done watching it?
copying is illegal
What about if I download it from someone who has freely uploaded it to the internet and then I delete it once I'm done?
ummm...because that's piracy?

a reply to: MeteoraXV

Exactly!!!


If I buy a car, I can legally let a million peeps use it, no probs.

Why if I buy and now own a movie is it a problem if I let a million people see it ? The reason is simple, it is idiotic greed on the part of those that already have way too much.

They are the kind that cant have enough, even if it were trillions of times more than billions of their line could ever use. They have no soul, they arent even people.

They are akin to crackheads. The only difference is one cares about nothing, no kids, not loved ones, not family, they care only about their addiction.

The other is a crack head.

Says a lot about the OP's sorry and untenable position.

Op, are you from universal or tristar?...no wait... it is warner brothers, the most souless entity in the entertainment endustry!!!!


Say I am wrong!!!!

Your words betray you sucker!!!!

a reply to: MeteoraXV

I can justify piracy in these easy steps...

I want it!

I can't afford it!

I know how to get it for nothing!

Why should I go without, it's not like nobody else is doing it too is it, where is my incentive for being a good little girl, staying on the side of copyright.

There will always be the haves and the have nots in this world....sometimes its nice to even up the playingfield a little bit, even if it is a token gesture.

To be honest OP, I don't know why you are even worrying about this, when there so many more productive notions in the world to focus upon, such as Why are we here in the first place?!

a reply to: FraternitasSaturni
When something is sold at 70 a pop and sells 32.5 million copies... when they could sell for 35 and still make a HUGE profit. And then come the DLCs...
well i hate to be so repetitive but again they could sell a video game or a movie or whatever, which are luxury goods and not necessities, for 10 billion gazillion for all i care. the argument that something is too expensive for you to buy never justifies piracy, ever. it is their product, they set the price as they see fit and they are not going to send over a hit man if you don't watch their movie or play their video game. you choose to acquire the product and you do it illegally.
As long as games sell for 70 a pop, piracy is justifiable considering the ALL the revenue from ALL sides. I'm sorry.
entitlement mentality. no one is forcing you to buy new $69,99 video games, you want them yourself. you and only you chose to acquire that product. no one is forcing you to buy them. there are plenty of cheap $4,99 video games in bins in stores everywhere but you want the new and shiny latest games on the market, while you can not afford them.
If I try to make something in my home and sell it to you for 1000% more, you'll call me every name on this earth, try to sue me
alright this is where i stopped reading. how in the hell am i entitled to your product?? how the hell can i sue you because you made something that i want but can't afford?? i can't believe you actually typed this
So... Thats my take on piracy. But my take on piracy is also for personal use - I dont profit out of it
that's news to me. oh wow. so you don't profit when you download all the new movies and video games that you want, for free and get to enjoy them, for free. got it.

Well to put in simply, myself I do not try to justify online piracy. Instead I just call it one of my way's of saying "# You" to the TPTB as they tend to say the same to me dozens of times per day.

You want to steal from me and not represent me in government? These singers only want to put out music for the sole purpose of manipulating children's minds...? I say their work is fair #ing game.

a reply to: Thefarmer
well too bad for them! again, they don't need to watch the latest x-men film because no one is forcing them to! YOU and you alone choose to want to see the damn movie. you need water to survive, not movies. if you have the money to go out and watch a movie, great. if you don't too bad. that doesn't justify illegal downloading. i never really get why people keep using the "i can't afford it so i have to download it"-argument...

I like to go to live shows.

I do not like too spend over $40 a ticket anymore. If the bands are there for the fans, then why do they charge $75-$300 a ticket.

If eveyone would stop spending their hard earned money going to overpriced shows, then the price would come down.

I rarely go to the movies for the same reason.

I am out earning my money through my blood sweat and tears. The industry earns their money through other peoples blood, sweat and tears.

i never really get why people keep using the "i can't afford it so i have to download it"-argument...

Trip to the cinema for 1hr 45 mins (say on average)

1 adult 2 children £6.00 each, probably more now= £18.00 and that's just to walk in the door and take a seat.

A lot of cinemas are against you bringing your own snacks, so for a drink and popcorn it is around £4.

Let's add that to our family of three...£4x3=£12.

So that'll be a grand total of £30 for 1hr 45mins worth of entertainment.....

£30 is more than I have per week to spend on my family's weekly shop....you see now why some people cannot afford to go?!