Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and the Scandal of Medical Ignorance

a reply to: C-JEAN

Thanks for your post. I had my fillings changed as well. I think the paleo diet I am starting will rule out everything else you mention. I did try stevia as a sugar replacement but I didn't like the taste.

a reply to: earthblaze

If you look under the NAC detox link you will notice that the two essential minerals they listed were Selenium and molybdenum. The vitamin you take has 75 mcg of molybdenum in an active form. My vitamins have sodium molybdate, which works better than the gluconate for me to give me strength. I found a metabolic breakdown of that form but I've been splitting and hauling wood and my brain isn't up to par right now. Selenium is needed for the thyroid along with iodine.

I question the amount of D3 you are getting, it may be a little too much. Too much will cause calcification of soft tissue....but you also need extra calcium for that to occur. The sun is crucial for D3 to work properly anyway, taking less and going outside in the sun would be better even if it is for twenty minutes. I know someone who overloaded on D3, she was a nutritionist and she found out the hard way what moderation means. The vitamin you have has the K2 vitamin instead of K1, so that may lower problems with the D3 you are taking. K2 and D3 are companions in this.

I have NAC pills, but I don't use them much. I like to get NAC from foods. Overeasy eggs is a good source, fried in butter of course, but too much is not good either. It should be built up slowly in the body over a long period to help to regenerate cells.

Now, if you are low in salt, that can be a problem. A deficiency can increase insulin production by fifty percent while lowering excretion of the excess sugar metabolites by ninety percent I seem to remember. This means insulin resistance can result. Also low salt can cause brain swelling leading to inflammation. That was a government study. We need to get adequate salt. NAC does need salt to work with to detox also. The problem is we do not get enough chloride, good sources of chloride are fish and egg whites. also many veggies, but we need sodium to process the veggies, it is in our saliva. Eating lots of veggies can cause nitrates to elevate also, this means molybdenum is necessary. I hash all this around in my head all the time, trying to figure out why there are so many discrepancies in the multitudes of articles I read. I guess others just jump at things and the side effects of overconsumption later steer them away from things.



Magnesium might be the deficiency here. It moderates the calcium channels. I occassionally take a magnesium pill, like once a week. I also make sure to consume more foods with magnesium. I take epsom salts and put it on a washcloth when I shower, a little goes a long way. Some soaps contain magnesium, that is a good plus. But they use stearate nowadays, that does not have the same benefit. I noticed I just need a quarter cup of epsom salts and it works as good as a whole cup in the bath, the skin absorbs it. Magnesium baths too often can lower heart rate too far and also cause lowering of blood pressure. Too much magnesium is not good either. I would take a bath in it no more than once a week, you can take one once a day for a week initially to help restore the bodies reserves. After the deficiency is over, you need to consume the rda. You need to bring up the magnesium levels so you can get magnesium properly out of food. Once the body is back to normal, then you will need it just occasionally.

Don't overdo it, it is hard because you feel so much better, but then you start to feel like crap if you overload on magnesium or any of the minerals. overdose and deficiency symptoms are almost identical. When you boost magnesium, the body starts repairing and it depletes other minerals and vitamins. Keep taking the vitamin/mineral pill to make sure a deficiency doesn't occur. Magnesium is absorbed well from the skin. It also helps to keep blood from clotting unnecessarily. Also, the magnesium gives you energy by actually balancing the calcium, if there is not enough magnesium compared to calcium, then muscles are tense all the time. You may not be able to actually utilize the calcium also, that seems about what they are trying to correct. Certain foods in the diet can upset this.

Pay attention to how your body reacts. I don't know your diet, but if you are avoiding all glutamates, and can't make them because of a missing enzyme, this can cause a weak body also. Glutamates are necessary for certain functions in the body, including something to do with calcium Ion channels. Too much glutamate can lead to insulin resistance also but too little can cause problems too. I prefer my glutamates from meats, they seem to work better in my body. I don't like plant based glutamates. Kikkoman soy sauce has microbe based glutamates which is all right, but it still has goiterogen action which can cause problems with some people. I don't like the taste of the hydrolyzed soy protein soy sauces. I don't eat carraggenan either.

Try eating a piece of salt cod, don't rinse it. See if it helps. This was something my father told me, I have been researching it for a while. Just a little bit and observe how if makes you feel. I cannot narrow down why it works for me, It is a very nutritious food and extremely bioactive. It is raw and cured, meaning it retains a lot of different chemistry that falls apart when heated. About an ounce should do it, ask for a sample at an Italian deli, they have Baccala there usually.

The cross over from low salt to proper levels can be a little dangerous as the salt causes the cells to excrete their toxins in the body quickly. The cells use potassium and can be swollen. the excess water entering the intercellular medium can cause a temporary elevation of blood pressure. I went through that, now I can eat a higher level of salt, but I pee out all my salt excess and it does go too low now. I have to eat the rda every day or it takes my energy away. Weakness is a symptom of low salt.

a reply to: Mountainmeg

Hi thanks for the links. I suffer with depression but have been symptom free for 2 years. I recently changed from seroxat to tryptizol in the hope that it would help the CSF. It has definitely regulated my sleep as I now get 6-8 hours uninterrupted as opposed to 2-3 hour cat naps throughout the day. The change has had no effect on fatigue or neuropathic pain unfortunately.

Just wanted to chime in..a basic health bounce on a rebounder helps detox your lymph system which is crucial for maintaining the immune system.

www.extremehealthradio.com...


ETA:

www.wellnessbounce.com...

The health bounce is a gentle bounce that is performed for the health benefits outlined in the Rebounding category. This bounce is done by placing your feet about shoulder width apart and lightly shrugging your shoulders and / or lifting your heels to get yourself bouncing. Your feet stay on the mat with this bounce as the gentle up and down motion efficiently flushes your lymphatic system; in fact after 2 minutes of health bouncing your lymphatic system is completely flushed. This flushing process moves toxins and waste products out of the body. The gentle bounce acts as a pump for your lymphatic system. Due to the fact that lymph is flowing and waste is leaving, the body has a need for more white blood cells. The 2 minute health bounce can increase the white blood cell count by as much as 3 times due the need to replace the dead white blood cells that were flushed through the lymphatic system. Ideally, one would do the health bounce 4-5 times a day with at least one hour between bounces. If you are looking to help the body heal, then health bouncing every hour can be very effective due to the increased white blood cell count. The health bounce is also utilized as a warm up and cool down bounce for rebounding or weight training workouts and sports.<

Have you been tested for small fiber polyneuropathy.

Also have you been tested for the autoimmune disease sarcoidosis. This is seen in medical personal at rates 7 times higher then the general public. and may be asymptomatic except for symptoms like fibromyalgia or chronic fatigue syndrome.
www.inspire.com...
by the way i am a EMT

What does your lab tests show for C-reactive protein. this will show inflammation and posable autoimmune disorder.

Not all autoimmune diseases show on the main autoimmune screening blood tests. this test is only for the common autoimmune disorders
i came back neg on the autoimmune Antinuclear Antibody test and Autoimmunity Screening Panel 6 (ENA 6)
yet a few weeks later during a biopsy they found castleman's disease and later sarcoidosis both autoimmune disorders.

the only reason the doctors say this is all in you head and not a real disorder is they dis not test enough to find the real cause.

this is seen in poeple DXed with fibromyalgia.
no doctors ever test for small fiber polyneuropathy yet the symptoms are almost the same.
www.painresearchforum.org...

originally posted by: kosmicjack
Just wanted to chime in..a basic health bounce on a rebounder helps detox your lymph system which is crucial for maintaining the immune system.

www.extremehealthradio.com...

OMG, lol

originally posted by: Stormdancer777
a reply to: an0nThinker

I was this high energy athletic person until it hit me, it started with the fatigue, heart palpitations, vertigo, panic attacks, now I have Fibromyalgia and joint pain, and the brain fog is excruciating, the older I get with this on top of age is a nightmare.

I can see the possibility of the brain inflammation

Ditto.

I'm feeling a lot better now though I still have the joint pains on occasion or I've just gotten so used to them that they are the new "norm" for my body and are just kept in the background.

I attribute my improvement to an endocrinologist (did I spell that right?) and a rheumatologist. The rheum found that I had high inflammation markers and extremely low vitamin D and that my blood showed that I had been fighting the Epstein-Barr virus. I was put on mega doses of D (prescription form) and she wanted me to go on Plaqinil for Lupus SLE. I turned down the for life plaqinil and just took the D.

Several weeks later I went in to an endocrinologist feeling somewhat better and she wanted me to have several more mega doses of D and her tests showed I was low in Folic Acid also. I told her that I was now gluten free and that my stomach had improved a lot. She said the low levels were probably due to malabsorption from years of eating gluten which in many cases is related to auto immune which my tests showed I have.

So please, get all the tests, even the far out there ones. Check the D, Bs, viruses and consider going gluten free.

My best to you,

STM

I have zero thyroid hormone produced and diagnosed as chronic fatigue and was on a disability until I kind of walked off it for a while to see if I could inspire my kids to get going on a business with me instead.

But, this is my theory about what causes it. I found out others with thyroid conditions were commonly born in 1963, that I had written to, and that was the last year the US government/military could legally do atmospheric PU tests, with their nuclear, so in that year they detonated over 200 tests before they wouldn't be allowed to.

So, thyroid in danger, atomic.

Yet even so, had a slightly faster than average, the high end of the normal scale, and was healhty and vibrant and filled with energy and life.

Until my children were born between 1989 and 2001, in which case, they were using depleted uranium weapons and despite my father having a very healthy farmers market and despite eating very well, stir fries, fruit, organic milk and dairy, farm fresh eggs, my thyroid went to non existent. Then the chronic fatigue. Now the liver disease, gout and arthritis, and having to have major surgery for a collapsed system needing mesh inside.

And I believe all of these things are inter related and caused by their nuclear poisons, their all out war against citizens.

In turn most of my children's bad health and their speech therapy/apraxia and 2 needing occupational therapists, also from this.

Chronic fatigue and gradually worsening conditions, is hard to live with. Many offer supplements to take which only work a bit, and excercise is good, not overdoing it, but gentle excercise that gets your metabolism going, such as stepping on the spot to music for 20 minutes, doing a few minutes at a time and taking breaks, and 10 minutes, with breaks on an excercise bike. But then you get sick for several weeks and you have to start all over again.

I don't do outings well. I have to shop for everyone including my shut in mother, and a trip to the big town leaves me with flu like symptoms for days.

Avoid stairs.

Get sunshine alot.

Keep peaceful.

If more than one appointment is happening in a day, need to recover from it for days. If its several days in a row like that, it makes me sick.

I move in slow mode, everything is in slow mode.

But I really can relate to this thread.

a reply to: seentoomuch

OH, that makes a lot of sense.

a reply to: Unity_99

I so glad you added that, because I was wondering, what might have been happening in that area during the 50s and 60s,

also people our age seem to not be doing so well over all.

originally posted by: kosmicjack
Just wanted to chime in..a basic health bounce on a rebounder helps detox your lymph system which is crucial for maintaining the immune system.

www.extremehealthradio.com...

actually kosmic, that should help, I just don't know if my knees back feet hips could handle it

originally posted by: jrod
There can be many causes of CFS, this I am certain.

Depression can cause it to, I know from first hand experience.

I think its the chronic fatigue causing the depression because your metabolism slows right down, and it affects the brain functions. So for example, I went from being very good in english, writing in the local paper for my class, having the vice principal telling me he expected a book out of me before I was 40, proofing my dad's papers as he was a teacher and he would rely on my spelling, to having the entire structure area go out, so I have to edit my posts over and over, and drop words, letter go backwards, and then can't fold clothes or sort things without panic setting in.

Chronic fatigue is a physical condition, and causes other things to occur that can lead to biochemical changes, that can lead to depression.

I'm no doctor but try the following things:
- quit smoking or reduce drastically
- exercise every morning (gym, bike etc..)
- Drink Lemon juice (from fresh lemons not brick juice) (vitamin c, potassium, magnesium)
- eat healthy (meaning eat a little bit of everything, non gmo products, don't over eat vegetables: lots of pesticides residues in them)
- Drink water


This formulae has helped my mother greatly (she has a scelerosis since... ages, 64 y.o still working part time, driving etc..), and has helped me recently for my "sexual fatigue" (i'm a man).

I would add magnesium, K2, D, vitamin A, potassium, organic sulfur from health food store, ie msm, C doesnt always work with arthritis and the fatty soluables are important.

Also for metabolism, probiotics, and milk thistle.

I just can't stand swallowing pills every day or taking sour weird concotions. I sail in and out of health supplements.

As much non gmo and fresh fruit and protein as possible.

Sunshine, lots of sunshine in the corner of your eyes.

Get some yellow (not blue) light therapy type lamps or light bulbs, ie, the kind for depression, was told to get this for the very low energy.

Rest and sleep as needed.

For smoking, try esmokes but don't reduce the brain chemistry things too severely because I found that led to major depression, not all can just quit. And when it comes to nicotine versus some kind of strange bad for you big pharma med for depression, I don't know. I think you have to trust your intution and try to go healthy, not the unhealthy way and seek within for some inner healing.

And really envision, say, I'm filled with abundant life, energy, joy, peace, health, and can do everything I need to bring happiness to others and for myself. My body knows how to heal and does so wonderfully!

Keeping positive.

originally posted by: kosmicjack
Just wanted to chime in..a basic health bounce on a rebounder helps detox your lymph system which is crucial for maintaining the immune system.

www.extremehealthradio.com...

Hmmm. I wonder if going to a playground and swinging on a swing will have a similar effect as rebounding. No wonder we get old, we stop doing all the fun stuff we did when we were young.

originally posted by: Nyiah
I've had this blasted syndrome since I was diagnosed as a pre-teen. I've got about 18 years of fighting for a working balance under my belt now, and no balance has yet been found. All the vitamins, all the supplements, all the tweaked dosage levels of them, all the dietary alterations, and all the varied exercise in the world hasn't make a bleeping lick of difference. It all works for the very short-term, and then it's back to square one.

It well could be that the problem is in the engines (mitochondria) rather than the fuel & upkeep (food & exercise) This is one of the most compelling explanations for CFS I've seen yet, even if partially responsible:

Mitochondrial Dysfunction, Post-Exertional Malaise and CFS/ME

Some people are better at burning fats than glucose as a power supplier. It uses different pathways. A little glucose is needed for some functions but ketones can be used for most of the fuel. I actually have known quite a few people in my life that ate high fat, low carb diets and they lived just as long as others and were rarely sick. This system does not work well for many people though, but for some it works fine. If there is a little problem in the kreb's cycle pathways, then this works well. How do you know if it will help? I suppose try. We got away from fats as an energy source through stupid fads, but some people need to eat fats for energy. Meat is half fat, so this actually is related to the paleo diet.

The protein in the paleo diet is essential and I have a high protein need, frequently, whether it be cheese, meat, sandwhich meats, not beans, not good for me. Upsets my system far too much. Burps from liver and metabolism. Not needing that. But seeds and even potatoes have proteins that my body recognizes. Soya milk is supposed to be gmo and bad, but if its around I crave the protein in it. So we have a ninja blender/juicer, and for my birthday this year, next month, plan on buying some non gmo organic soya in sacks and almonds, the raw organic type, to make some of my own milk. That is perfect for me.

And also, the fats, always use butter, would like to make my own from organic, wish we could purchase fresh cows milk alas we can't. Also, careful on the olive oil because the virgin is often not, its a scam and you have to be careful. Coconut oil.

But I also found it also may have created fatty liver, because I was taking that at the time when my liver was giving the counts up too high in the blood tests so I cut back again on lower fats.

I'm not altogether sure if its just me, I'm the odd one, or if all paths lead to Rome and they're manipulating some of the info because another woman had problems too when she tried the coconut oil.

I was researching NMDA receptors and ran across this article. I was looking for foods that would induce a person to remember more in certain situations. It is a "maybe" article, meaning that they are thinking Amonia in the body could cause an activating of the receptors. But notice that they are talking of magnesium dampening the NMDA receptor. It may make it so you don't remember stuff a little, but most of the stuff we remember is actually not worth remembering. If these receptors are always on, it could cause fatigue. Maybe if you are studying, don't take the magnesium that day.

Here is the article. forums.phoenixrising.me.../anxiety-ammonia-and-the-nmda-receptor.1460/

It is just someone's idea but it also does contain a lot of real knowledge to form the idea. Now if a person has acidosis, Ammonia levels can be high from nitrogen compounds. Lots of foods contain nitrogen compounds, especially green leafy veggies. If too much is consumed I suppose there could be an overload of Nitrogen. Like I said molybdenum breaks down the nitrogens but if the kidneys don't get rid of the excess uric acid, it could cause a problem. I was researching memantine from an article on Science daily. when I found this article. www.sciencedaily.com... Seems like they are thinking of using it as an antidepressant. Strange how they give people with alzheimer disease a medicine that actually blocks memory formation. WTF.....I suppose it makes them more managable if they can't make memories in nursing homes. They also can't tell their family if someone mistreated them either. Oh well, I suppose it isn't important anyway, they can't remember their past well anyway.

Without a doubt, the most interesting thread I have ever just happened across on this site.

Absolutely CHALK FULL of information. I'm still reading links from page one. I will return with my personal story tomorrow (the reason this thread interests me so much).....

Thanks everyone involved for this treasure trove of information regarding the number one ill in my life. A problem that has become progressively worse since my teens. All the while being told by doctors that I am "making it up" and that "nothing is wrong with me" -while I would sit in disbelief (that quickly ended, I began to know what to expect their response to be) at their obvious implied assumptions that I was "lazy"...all the while I held down manual labor jobs like commercial roofing, mid summer, well over a hundred daily. Grinning, bearing...sometimes nearly crawling, even in my early 20s. I am now almost 30 (in a month) and it has only got worse....Like I said, will come back with specifics.

I do NOT want to lose this thread and have done everything to make sure of that. Went overboard with bookmarking, saving it here, posting this, saving the link in "notepad" (yeah, even that...just in case)...I might even write it down, lest my computer decided to freakishly die overnight, right when I needed it to be my MEMORY the most

Thanks again...I will be back after some sleep to read more of this and educate myself further about what can be done to combat and maybe (hopefully) even stifle this problem to the extent that it is no longer a every day thought and worry about when I am going to wake up in such a state and how long that will take before I go back to "normal" (if I even know what such a thing is anymore)

This thread has explained SO much.....makes SO much sense and ties in MANY things I saw as unrelated in the past (though some still might be, I acknowledge that as well...but some are definitely tied into this whole network of problems with a seemingly singular root cause...or at least, set of root causes.)

I am ecstatic.....running across this thread was surely not just happenstance.

a reply to: earthblaze

Thanks for sharing this interesting and important information - and for the equally interesting link! The symptoms seem to cover what I suffer from, but I have not, and most likely never will be, officially diagnosed with it.