Texas GOP endorses ‘treatment’ for homosexuality

a reply to: begoodbees

Um wow.

Never tried to turn this into an argument, and I certainly did not want to bring religious dogma into this thread.

Excuse me while I go play chess with a pigeon.

originally posted by: begoodbees

originally posted by: jrod

originally posted by: begoodbees
Evolution cannot be proven by the scientific method and therefore it is not real science.

Evolution has been proven. This is why there are anti-biotic resistant forms of bacteria today that did not exist 50 years ago, or even in some cases 1 year ago.

Futile it is

What scientific experiment was performed proving that a living cell can form spontaneously form inanimate stuff? The answer is none.

Not science. Variation is everywhere and does not need to be proven.

not only that, but the bacteria are STILL bacteria.

they didn't evolve at all.

they adapted. if they grew wings, i'd be impressed.

people live through plagues/flu without any medicine. big deal.

they are still human.

a reply to: begoodbees

You are awesome dude. My new favorite poster.

Brilliant is what you are. I can't wait to see the amazing knowledge you have brought to these forums.

a reply to: MOMof3

Then why do people choose not to have children? I know several and they stuck to it until old age. Are they mentally ill too?

He meant the reason for pleasure is to procreate, regardless of whether or not they want children.

a reply to: begoodbees

What scientific experiment was performed proving that a living cell can form spontaneously form inanimate stuff? The answer is none.

Abiogenesis has nothing to do with evolution.

originally posted by: tsingtao
not only that, but the bacteria are STILL bacteria.

they didn't evolve at all.

They didn't? Interesting way of viewing what has happened to the original 12 E. coli populations over the course of 60,000 generations. One of the strains evolved to subsist off of an entirely new food source

a particularly important adaptation that occurred in the population called Ara-3: the bacteria evolved the ability to grow on citrate under the oxygen-rich conditions of the experiment. Wild-type E. coli cannot grow on citrate when oxygen is present due to the inability during aerobic metabolism to produce an appropriate transporter protein that can bring citrate into the cell, where it could be metabolized via the citric acid cycle. The consequent lack of growth on citrate under oxic conditions, referred to as a Cit- phenotype, is considered a defining characteristic of the species that has been a valuable means of differentiating E. coli from pathogenic Salmonella.

The mean fitness of each population, as measured against the ancestor strain, increased, rapidly at first, but leveled off after close to 20,000 generations (at which point they grew about 70% faster than the ancestor strain). All populations evolved larger cell volumes and lower maximum population densities, and all became specialized for living on glucose (with declines in fitness relative to the ancestor strain when grown in dissimilar nutrients). Of the 12 populations, four developed defects in their ability to repair DNA, greatly increasing the rate of additional mutations in those strains.

If that's not good evidence for evolution, and that's just one offspring somewhere around 30,000 generations of the original 12, I just don't know what is. Misunderstanding the mechanisms of evolution is not the same as evolution not occurring. Adaptation is a huge part of natural selection which is most certainly one of the mechanisms that drive evolution.

Also, to say its not evolution because its still bacteria is just silly. Humans now and humans 50,000 years ago are both human but there are genetic and anatomical differences because evolution is a slow and on going process.

they adapted. if they grew wings, i'd be impressed.

Me too, but mostly because that isn't how evolution works so we would have to rethink the paradigm if something like that occurred.

people live through plagues/flu without any medicine. big deal.

they are still human.

Right, because evolution just happens over the course of a generation or two...
Just because surviving a pandemic doesn't turn you into one of the X-Men doesn't mean the survivors aren't going to pass those genes that allowed for their genetic fitness, on down to their offspring who will in turn pass those genes on to their offspring and on and on. Sometimes these genes become prevalent in the general population, sometimes the diseases adapt faster than we do. Whether you want to admit it or not, adaptation is an important part of natural selection which IS a mechanism of evolution. The same statement applies to the Lenski experiment. You can't say 'well its not evolution, its just adaptation.' The two are often bosom buddies.

originally posted by: amazing
I'm seeing an issue here and it brings up another I guess...

People are throwing out science for the bible. Evolution is a valid theory, just like the theory of gravity. It's that solid. Man Made Global Warming is a valid theory, just like the theory of gravity. It's that solid. Every medical/psychiatric or psychological society, organization or group states that this treatment is bad and that there is nothing wrong with homosexuality...ergo it's not a mental illness.

Why do you guys go against science on everything?

That type will sadly rally against anything that goes against their wish to control other people, hurt other people and hate other people.

It will forever amaze me that so many scream and cry against things that are harmless because they can't understand, applying the rule that everyone else will be judged, while they and their righteous hatred cruelty will be rewarded.

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: begoodbees

What scientific experiment was performed proving that a living cell can form spontaneously form inanimate stuff? The answer is none.

Abiogenesis has nothing to do with evolution.

evolution has to start somewhere, right?

do you think a bunch of crap turning into life is not evolution?

a reply to: tsingtao

do you think a bunch of crap turning into life is not evolution?

Evolution is AFTER "a bunch of crap turning into life" as you say it. They are separate subjects.

Evolution Theory will still work whether or not God created the universe or aliens seeded Earth.

smithjustinb I applaud you for your patience. People have compared homosexuality with being left handed, getting tattoos, etc, and even one guy who said you have a mental illness because you think homosexuality should not be encouraged. Wow the last one is really shocking. The FACT is that homosexuality is a disorder and just because some politicians in the 70's forced a purely political change in the DSM doesn't make it any less of one. Any condition that shaves 20 years off of your life, triples suicides, quadruples drug use, and exponentially increases disease is absolutely a disorder. (for those who wish to pretend these stats are caused by discrimination, the Netherlands had similar results and homosexuality IS almost encouraged there, at the very least it is accepted)

Why do I care? Because I have children and they deserve to know the truth, that homosexuality is EXTREMELY unhealthy mentally, emotionally, and physically. I don't need the bible or any church to tell me that it is disordered. I understand that some people may be born that way but since when does being born with something make it normal or healthy? Comparing homosexuality to the things people have in this thread is truly idiotic since being left handed does not kill you early.

smithjustinb has said absolutely nothing wrong. All he said was more research is needed and, like me, does not approve of forced participation in anything. We believe that it should be researched further to be available for those that want help. I have met a couple ex-gays so I know that the idea of treating it is not that far out there. I, for one, don't really care what consenting adults do. I just find it disturbing that so many gays want to tell everyone where they like to put their penis.

The ONLY thing I have a problem with is everyone telling me I must conform and accept homosexuality as normal. I don't tell gays they should change since it doesn't concern me, just as my lifestyle doesn't concern gays. My boys are taught to love everyone equally and not to judge people so gays need not be concerned about them either.

a reply to: tsingtao

However technically abiogenesis can be considered as a chemical evolution. But it is not a biological evolution.

Big difference there.

a reply to: ccross

I just find it disturbing that so many gays want to tell everyone where they like to put their penis.

I find it disturbing that so many Christians care about what people do in bedrooms.

a reply to: ccross

Whether homosexuality is a disorder or not is beside the point. They can't help being what they are as much as you can't help being whatever it is that you are, so instead of perpetuating hatred why not try being positive instead?

It's not difficult, but the rest of us will understand if you can't manage it - you're not the first person to be irrational and certainly won't be the last.

Seriously, though - being the opposite to negative is actually really healthy for you and it does seem that you are all for being healthy.

a reply to: BasementWarriorKryptonite

I am confused. All I stated were facts about health and homosexuality. I have no hatred whatsoever, ask my gay sister if she thinks I hate her( we get along excellent). I look at it this way. If your neighbor is drinking himself to death are you showing more love by trying to convince him to stop or telling him he is perfect the way he is?

Your insult that I cannot manage to not hate, actually shows your hatred.

a reply to: Deaf Alien

I don't care what people do in their bedrooms. At all. See, you are trying to pretend it is only christians who are guilty of trying to push their views on others. I, for one, do not push my views on others and want others to not push theirs on me. Simple.

a reply to: ccross

I was speaking in general. I know you don't care about what they do in bedrooms but a lot of Christians do.

Lot of Christians DO try to push their views on others. Remember Moral Majority?

originally posted by: peter vlar

originally posted by: tsingtao
not only that, but the bacteria are STILL bacteria.

they didn't evolve at all.

They didn't? Interesting way of viewing what has happened to the original 12 E. coli populations over the course of 60,000 generations. One of the strains evolved to subsist off of an entirely new food source

a particularly important adaptation that occurred in the population called Ara-3: the bacteria evolved the ability to grow on citrate under the oxygen-rich conditions of the experiment. Wild-type E. coli cannot grow on citrate when oxygen is present due to the inability during aerobic metabolism to produce an appropriate transporter protein that can bring citrate into the cell, where it could be metabolized via the citric acid cycle. The consequent lack of growth on citrate under oxic conditions, referred to as a Cit- phenotype, is considered a defining characteristic of the species that has been a valuable means of differentiating E. coli from pathogenic Salmonella.

The mean fitness of each population, as measured against the ancestor strain, increased, rapidly at first, but leveled off after close to 20,000 generations (at which point they grew about 70% faster than the ancestor strain). All populations evolved larger cell volumes and lower maximum population densities, and all became specialized for living on glucose (with declines in fitness relative to the ancestor strain when grown in dissimilar nutrients). Of the 12 populations, four developed defects in their ability to repair DNA, greatly increasing the rate of additional mutations in those strains.

If that's not good evidence for evolution, and that's just one offspring somewhere around 30,000 generations of the original 12, I just don't know what is. Misunderstanding the mechanisms of evolution is not the same as evolution not occurring. Adaptation is a huge part of natural selection which is most certainly one of the mechanisms that drive evolution.

Also, to say its not evolution because its still bacteria is just silly. Humans now and humans 50,000 years ago are both human but there are genetic and anatomical differences because evolution is a slow and on going process.

they adapted. if they grew wings, i'd be impressed.

Me too, but mostly because that isn't how evolution works so we would have to rethink the paradigm if something like that occurred.

people live through plagues/flu without any medicine. big deal.

they are still human.

Right, because evolution just happens over the course of a generation or two...
Just because surviving a pandemic doesn't turn you into one of the X-Men doesn't mean the survivors aren't going to pass those genes that allowed for their genetic fitness, on down to their offspring who will in turn pass those genes on to their offspring and on and on. Sometimes these genes become prevalent in the general population, sometimes the diseases adapt faster than we do. Whether you want to admit it or not, adaptation is an important part of natural selection which IS a mechanism of evolution. The same statement applies to the Lenski experiment. You can't say 'well its not evolution, its just adaptation.' The two are often bosom buddies.

did they name the new species of e-coli?

a new scientific name?

Escherichia coli
Bacteria
Escherichia coli is a gram-negative, facultatively anaerobic, rod-shaped bacterium of the genus Escherichia that is commonly found in the lower intestine of warm-blooded organisms. Wikipedia
Scientific name: Escherichia coli
Higher classification: Escherichia
Rank: Species


anyway, back on topic. lol.

as i said before, there ain't no "cure" for homosexuality and forcing someone to undergo treatment is very wrong.


a good friend of mine lived the straight life, wife, house, 2 kids.
he came out of the closet, he just couldn't live like that anymore.

i knew him afterwards, btw.

i do not judge him or anyone i know, gay or not,
even tho i am christian, imagine that.


i'm not sure he would even have wanted treatment even if it worked.

a reply to: BasementWarriorKryptonite

I forgot to touch on the rest of your post. I understand that many cannot or will not change who they are. That is not the argument here. All we are advocating is that research be continued and resources be available for those that want help. Since there are many ex gays we cannot just pretend there is no chance that any gay will benefit from treatment. FORCING people into treatment is absolutely wrong and disgusting, but leaving the door open for those that want to change is what needs to happen. Otherwise your saying that those few gays that do not want to be gay are unimportant.

a reply to: ccross

I agree with you there.

What is important here is if there are such LEGITIMATE treatments available that homosexuals are not to be made to feel inferior. Let them make the decision themselves without anyone's encouragement or anything.

[edit]

Since there are many ex gays we cannot just pretend there is no chance that any gay will benefit from treatment.

That has not been proven. "ex gays" are still gay, regardless.

originally posted by: ccross
a reply to: BasementWarriorKryptonite
If your neighbor is drinking himself to death are you showing more love by trying to convince him to stop or telling him he is perfect the way he is?

Your insult that I cannot manage to not hate, actually shows your hatred.

Comparing addiction to one's sexuality is not going to win any of us over.

If one does not care what people do in their bedrooms then one has no need to post in these types of threads. In my opinion, it is an unhealthy obsession with another's sexuality.

How have I pushed my views on anyone in this thread, or the others?