Neo-fascists train to fight in Ukraine

a reply to: Vovin

In the pic you see a guy wearing a German uniform, and that red and black flag is neo- Nazi (not anarchist). - See more at: www.abovetopsecret.com...

Actually you should look a bit closer and use that education of yours, because that what you circled is a German flag that has black, red and gold and it has nothing to do with neo-Nazi as that is only an assumption made by you.

Also know that just because you may be from Germany it doesn't make you a neo-Nazi. And you have no proof that the man in your picture is anything other than a Ukraine citizen that has a jacket that has a German flag on it.

Why are you spreading propaganda without proof that backs your claim?

STAFF ALERT!

The personal insults and arguing need to stop right now. Stay on topic and remember that opposing opinions are allowed, but this behavior is not.

Do not reply to this post.

“They lost their lives because they defended men and women, children and the elderly who found themselves in a situation facing a threat to be killed by invaders and sponsored by them subhumans. First, we will commemorate the heroes by wiping out those who killed them and then by cleaning our land from the evil”

Ukraine Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk, in response to the downing of an Ukrainian Il-76 transport plane with 49 fatalities.

Source- Ukraine embassy in USA

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

has nothing to do with neo-Nazi as that is only an assumption made by you.

I have seen quite of some people on the web defending the neo-fascists with the same claims that they arent Neo Nazis for while more then over a year now.

Its getting a bit old.

just because you may be from Germany it doesn't make you a neo-Nazi.

Oh no i am sure all of them are all just ordinary Ukrainians and arent Neo Fascists yet History says otherwise.


Why are you spreading propaganda without proof that backs your claim?

propaganda without proof you say? the user posted an image source in which you hardly tried on debunking by claiming without providing any proof of your own.

On that image is propaganda.

And you have no proof that the man in your picture is anything other than a Ukraine citizen that has a jacket that has a German flag on it.

Other Then an Ukrainian citizen wearing an jacket that has a German flag on it usual says alot more then you claim.

a reply to: Agent_USA_Supporter

I have seen quite of some people on the web defending the neo-fascists with the same claims that they arent Neo Nazis for while more then over a year now.

Its getting a bit old.

And having people group in the government because you think everyone who isn't a Russian sympathizers is either a facist or neo Nazi is getting old to but you continue to do it, why?

It is getting very old also.

Oh no i am sure all of them are all just ordinary Ukrainians and arent Neo Fascists yet History says otherwise.

So now everybody in Ukraine is a facist, because of what happened in WWII, gotcha.

Now let's look at Russia and the neo facist/ neo Nazi movement in that country.

Many Russian neo-Nazis openly admire Adolf Hitler and use the German Nazi swastika as their symbol. Russian neo-Nazis are characterized by racism, antisemitism, homophobia, Islamophobia and extreme xenophobia towards people from Asia.[64] Their ideology centers on defending Russian national identity against what they perceive as a takeover by minority groups such as Jews, Caucasians, homosexuals, Central Asians, Roma people, Poles, and Muslims.

Observers have noted the irony of Russians embracing neo-Nazism, because one of Hitler's ambitions at the start of World War II was to exterminate, expel, or enslave most or all Slavs from central and eastern Europe (i.e., Russians, Ukrainians, Poles etc.).[65] At the end of the Nazi invasion of the Soviet Union, over 25 million Soviet citizens had died.[66] In a 2007 news story, ABC News reported, "In a country that lost more people defeating the Nazis than any other country, there are now an estimated 50,000 to 70,000 neo-Nazis, half of the world's total."[67]

On August 15, 2007, Russian authorities arrested a student for allegedly posting a video on the Internet which appears to show two migrant workers being beheaded in front of a red and black swastika flag.[69] Alexander Verkhovsky, the head of a Moscow-based center that monitors hate crime in Russia, said, "It looks like this is the real thing. The killing is genuine ... There are similar videos from the Chechen war. But this is the first time the killing appears to have been done intentionally."[70] A Russian neo-Nazi group called the Russian National Socialist Party claimed responsibility for the murders.

en.wikipedia.org...

So now that there is a neo Nazi ideology by some citizens in Russia that means everybody must be that way including the government, or is that not a correct observation because that is exactly what your trying to say about Ukraine.

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: Vovin

In the pic you see a guy wearing a German uniform, and that red and black flag is neo- Nazi (not anarchist). - See more at: www.abovetopsecret.com...

Actually you should look a bit closer and use that education of yours, because that what you circled is a German flag that has black, red and gold and it has nothing to do with neo-Nazi as that is only an assumption made by you.

Also know that just because you may be from Germany it doesn't make you a neo-Nazi. And you have no proof that the man in your picture is anything other than a Ukraine citizen that has a jacket that has a German flag on it.

Why are you spreading propaganda without proof that backs your claim?

he was referring to red&black flag on the fence, which was a flag of Ukrainian nationalist organisation from world war 2, UPA

en.wikipedia.org...

The group also engaged in the ethnic cleansing and killing of Poles from many towns and villages of western Ukraine.[1][2] The group was the military wing of the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists—Bandera faction (the OUN-B),

you can read about ethnic cleansing they committed against Poles in WW2
www.volhyniamassacre.eu...

Right Sector use the same ideology.

exodus of ethnic Russians, 14/06/14 border checkpoint Izvarino.
Escaping from Junta and their 'United Ukraine' nightmare.

All former communist countries currently favor fascism because its the opposite of Communism. In about 20 years the Pendulum will balance out in the middle. Its the normal path of primitive people to first embrace Communism and Tribalism, then Fascism and Despotism before they advance to more pleasant modes of conduct.

originally posted by: MrSpad
Does anybody here that uses the term facist have any even what it means? Clearly not. I get it is a bad word in europe so anytime somebody is against they are called a facist but, man is does get old. Are there facists groups that support Ukraine? Sure. Are their facist groups that support Russia? Sure. Facism pushes the supremacy of state. Supporters on both sides in a conflct often begin to fall in to that area. The question is who cares? Communist, monarchists. republicans, socialists, greens and people of every political spectrum support the side they chose to. However to try and paint on side as facist is just stupid.

I would disagree. I believe you are engaging in term and historical revisionism.

Fascism is the promotion and apology of the capture of the state by minority / special interests.

It's not even clear what you mean by 'supremacy of the state'. Just a muddled buzz word typical of right wing sophistry.

originally posted by: Skyfloating
All former communist countries currently favor fascism because its the opposite of Communism. In about 20 years the Pendulum will balance out in the middle. Its the normal path of primitive people to first embrace Communism and Tribalism, then Fascism and Despotism before they advance to more pleasant modes of conduct.

We also have a corporate fascism as a phenomena quite well established in US through its destruction of middle class.

a reply to: cosmonova

you can read about ethnic cleansing they committed against Poles in WW2
www.volhyniamassacre.eu...

And it seems that Russia has no problem doing it either...

Circassians, the indigenous peoples of this region were cleansed[2] from their homeland at the end of the Russo-Circassian War by victorious Russia. The expulsion was launched even before the end of the war in 1864 and it continued into the 1870s[citation needed], although it was mostly completed by 1867. The peoples involved were mainly the Circassians (Adyghe in their own language), Ubykhs, Kabarday, Abkhaz, and Abaza.

en.wikipedia.org...

Right Sector use the same ideology.

Well it seems that Russia has some who have the same ideology as Right Sector, so does that mean all of Russia has the same ideology because that is what your saying about Ukraine?

originally posted by: Skyfloating
All former communist countries currently favor fascism because its the opposite of Communism. In about 20 years the Pendulum will balance out in the middle. Its the normal path of primitive people to first embrace Communism and Tribalism, then Fascism and Despotism before they advance to more pleasant modes of conduct.

That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Communism is not tribalism, and fascism and despotism are not the same either. And your theory of the evolution of political change from "tribalistic" communism to fascism as a "more pleasant" way of life is in total contradiction to universally accepted social science in academia.

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h

Right Sector use the same ideology.

Well it seems that Russia has some who have the same ideology as Right Sector, so does that mean all of Russia has the same ideology because that is what your saying about Ukraine?

Prove it.

By the way, did you see my earlier post sourced from an Ukrainian embassy website that quoted the prime minister as saying the rebels in the east are "subhumans" and they will be "wiped out" because they are "evil"?

It seems really suspicious that you're ignoring the point of this thread, which is about THE RISE OF FASCISM IN UKRAINE, by continuously claiming that Russians are fascist instead without providing any evidence.

originally posted by: Vovin

That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Communism is not tribalism, and fascism and despotism are not the same either. And your theory of the evolution of political change from "tribalistic" communism to fascism as a "more pleasant" way of life is in total contradiction to universally accepted social science in academia.

Thats because "social sciences of Academia" are biased toward the far-left.

Secondly, I didnt say fascism is more pleasant. Communism and Fascism are the two sides of the pyramids bottom. Historically speaking, the pendulum goes back and forth, until it goes more center and then upwards.

And regardless of whether you think it "makes sense" or not, if you listen to Ukrainians, Russians, Poles, Georgians, etc. talk you will hear that their newly found fascism is a reaction to their previous communism.

a reply to: Vovin

Prove it.

Ah yes the prove it card.

Did you know that Russia had a facist party that had a very interesting flag?



en.wikipedia.org...

But now does that mean the whole of Russia has the same ideology of this group...No it doesn't, but for some reason you keep wanting to say the whole of Ukraine gov't have this same ideology that the Right Sector has without any proof showing this to be true.

By the way, did you see my earlier post sourced from an Ukrainian embassy website that quoted the prime minister as saying the rebels in the east are "subhumans" and they will be "wiped out" because they are "evil"?

And the man has the right to speak his opinion, now I see you may have forgotten this little gem from a Russian PM...

Dmitry Rogozin, Russia's deputy prime minister, has posted a tweet saying his next flight over Romania will be in a TU-160 bomber aircraft after he was denied access to the country's airspace.

www.itv.com...

It's okay to threaten another country with a bomber, but when you tell your personal feelings about another it is wrong.

Where was your uproar when that happened?

It's okay if Russia does it but someone else does it and the Russian media is in an uproar...Do you see the irony in that?

originally posted by: Skyfloating

originally posted by: Vovin

That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Communism is not tribalism, and fascism and despotism are not the same either. And your theory of the evolution of political change from "tribalistic" communism to fascism as a "more pleasant" way of life is in total contradiction to universally accepted social science in academia.

Thats because "social sciences of Academia" are biased toward the far-left.

Secondly, I didnt say fascism is more pleasant. Communism and Fascism are the two sides of the pyramids bottom. Historically speaking, the pendulum goes back and forth, until it goes more center and then upwards.

And regardless of whether you think it "makes sense" or not, if you listen to Ukrainians, Russians, Poles, Georgians, etc. talk you will hear that their newly found fascism is a reaction to their previous communism.

Well it doesn't really matter what I say because we clearly have different backgrounds in understanding political theory. You claim that society just goes back and forth along the spectrum of political ideology while I claim, just as academia of the world, that human society has momentum just like everything else in existence and that ideology is an adaptation to socioeconomic realities of spatiotemporal frontiers. History clearly shows this process of progression based on the mode of production.

But I guess it helps to actually know that communism is a socioeconomic doctrine while fascism is a form of social control, and that fascism can be applicable in any socioeconomic doctrine, whilst communism is a socioeconomic doctrine.

The fascism is conventionally referred to as just "fascism" is the fascist stage of capitalism.

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: Vovin

Prove it.

Ah yes the prove it card.

Did you know that Russia had a facist party that had a very interesting flag?

en.wikipedia.org...

But now does that mean the whole of Russia has the same ideology of this group...No it doesn't, but for some reason you keep wanting to say the whole of Ukraine gov't have this same ideology that the Right Sector has without any proof showing this to be true.

By the way, did you see my earlier post sourced from an Ukrainian embassy website that quoted the prime minister as saying the rebels in the east are "subhumans" and they will be "wiped out" because they are "evil"?

And the man has the right to speak his opinion, now I see you may have forgotten this little gem from a Russian PM...

Dmitry Rogozin, Russia's deputy prime minister, has posted a tweet saying his next flight over Romania will be in a TU-160 bomber aircraft after he was denied access to the country's airspace.

www.itv.com...

It's okay to threaten another country with a bomber, but when you tell your personal feelings about another it is wrong.

Where was your uproar when that happened?

It's okay if Russia does it but someone else does it and the Russian media is in an uproar...Do you see the irony in that?

And you managed to prove absolutely nothing. What a surprise! There's a fascist party in Russia, just like in every country in the world! Obviously the Russian government must be fascist because of this fact!

Now, can you please stop derailing this thread? This thread is not about Russia, it's about Ukraine.

a reply to: Vovin

And you managed to prove absolutely nothing. What a surprise! There's a fascist party in Russia, just like in every country in the world! Obviously the Russian government must be fascist because of this fact!

Then why do you constantly say the Ukraine gov't are facist because there are certain citizens who want to follow that ideology?

Do you not see the...well you know the Irony in your post?

So how does discussing facists derail this thread?

That's right you want only those who agree with you to post in this thread. My bad...

a reply to: Vovin

Now, can you please stop derailing this thread? This thread is not about Russia, it's about Ukraine.

I am sorry but isn't the Ukraine crisis being caused by Russia?

And isn't Russia the country that annexed a part of Ukraine?

And isn't it only Russian media that call Ukraine gov't facists?

So Russia should also be discussed in this thread as they are the reason you have this thread.

But your right, Russia has nothing to do with Ukraine and what is happening there.