Neo-fascists train to fight in Ukraine

Al Jazeera report on fascists from around Europe (and Russia) flocking to Ukraine to join Kiev's National Guard and fight separatists in east Ukraine.

Seems to be a few members on ATS who continue to deny that Kiev has anything to do with fascists- some even claim that the east Ukraine separatists are fascist Russian agents.

If anyone has anything more to share on this subject, this should be the place to do it.

Not available in America. #ing youtube censorship. OP, props to you for spreading the truth.

originally posted by: lightedhype
Not available in America. #ing youtube censorship. OP, props to you for spreading the truth.

Just one reason why I refuse to go to You Tube any longer. It's Live leak for me baby!

originally posted by: lightedhype
Not available in America. #ing youtube censorship. OP, props to you for spreading the truth.

Weird. I'm Canadian and it works fine.

a reply to: Vovin

Seems to be a few members on ATS who continue to deny that Kiev has anything to do with fascists- some even claim that the east Ukraine separatists are fascist Russian agents. - See more at: www.abovetopsecret.com...

And there seem to be a few that believe Russia is justified in causing this problem in Ukraine.

So would those be Russian agents that are from Ukraine, or are they actual separatists that have a facist ideology?

Because if they are separatists with that ideology then Russia is backing facists also.

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: Vovin

Seems to be a few members on ATS who continue to deny that Kiev has anything to do with fascists- some even claim that the east Ukraine separatists are fascist Russian agents. - See more at: www.abovetopsecret.com...

And there seem to be a few that believe Russia is justified in causing this problem in Ukraine.

So would those be Russian agents that are from Ukraine, or are they actual separatists that have a facist ideology?

Because if they are separatists with that ideology then Russia is backing facists also.

...why would the separatists be of that ideology?

Look man, if you want to be suggesting things then provide proof. I'd be pretty damn surprised if you can because it defies all logic of what is going on there.

a reply to: Vovin

...why would the separatists be of that ideology?

Look man, if you want to be suggesting things then provide proof. I'd be pretty damn surprised if you can because it defies all logic of what is going on there.
edit on 10-6-2014 by Vovin because: (no reason given)
- See more at: www.abovetopsecret.com...

I am asking that because of what you posted...

some even claim that the east Ukraine separatists are fascist Russian agents. - See more at: www.abovetopsecret.com...

Are you going to at least clarify as to what you mean by this statement?

It isn't that hard of a question, and I am not suggesting anything.

a reply to: Vovin

...why would the separatists be of that ideology?

Well you did make the statement, and are you saying there is no way that any separatists can have this ideology and still fight against Ukraine?

It has been interesting to watch the resurgence of fascism, or support for fascist political movements, in Europe over the past few months. Still, it is not terribly surprising,-- as times of economic hardship serve as fertile soil for these kinds of movements.

Your post reminded me immediately of a Vice News Dispatch from Ukraine from a while ago. Right Sector, an "Ultra-Nationalist" (read: Fascist) group intensely involved in the Euromaidan protests were removed from the hotel that had served as their HQ. In this video there was talk that they were being sent to the East to be, I believe, trained, armed, and pitted against the Separatist insurgency. Video:

Does anybody here that uses the term facist have any even what it means? Clearly not. I get it is a bad word in europe so anytime somebody is against they are called a facist but, man is does get old. Are there facists groups that support Ukraine? Sure. Are their facist groups that support Russia? Sure. Facism pushes the supremacy of state. Supporters on both sides in a conflct often begin to fall in to that area. The question is who cares? Communist, monarchists. republicans, socialists, greens and people of every political spectrum support the side they chose to. However to try and paint on side as facist is just stupid.

a reply to: MrSpad

Mr spad. you are absolutely correct. BOTH sides have employed facism. Ukraine bringing in facist troops to fight facist from russian territory and checynyia is just tit fot tat. This does not necessarily make the governments facist though even if they are using said tactics.

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: Vovin

...why would the separatists be of that ideology?

Well you did make the statement, and are you saying there is no way that any separatists can have this ideology and still fight against Ukraine?

First of all, I made the statement because I have encountered members on ATS who claim the coup in Kiev was leftist revolution and the separatists are fascist agents working to destroy the revolution.

Second, you're using choice words in your statement that can be perceived in different ways. But to answer it, yes, there probably are separatists of fascist ideology because so many Ukrainians have either moved or defected to the separatists. Whether or not an individual has fascist ideology doesn't reflect the ideology of the larger movement.

And beyond that why would the fascists be fighting each other? The fascists have an agenda that is much larger in scale than just Ukraine. If you want an example of what Europe is heading towards, look at what the Islamofascists have achieved in the Middle East and North Africa. ISIS has just captured American-made military vehicles/helicopters and around $420 million dollars, not to mention a few major cities in Iraq. At this rate ISIS may have Baghdad in a month. And like the fascist junta in Ukraine, ISIS is a creation that has been fortified by the Americans to fight Assad in Syria.

originally posted by: MrSpad
Does anybody here that uses the term facist have any even what it means? Clearly not. I get it is a bad word in europe so anytime somebody is against they are called a facist but, man is does get old. Are there facists groups that support Ukraine? Sure. Are their facist groups that support Russia? Sure. Facism pushes the supremacy of state. Supporters on both sides in a conflct often begin to fall in to that area. The question is who cares? Communist, monarchists. republicans, socialists, greens and people of every political spectrum support the side they chose to. However to try and paint on side as facist is just stupid.

It's not really a european thing...
The terms fascist and fascism are heavily used by the russian media to support the picture that Russia is doing the right thing in Ukraine ("Hey look citizien, we fight fascism like we did in the 1940ies, we are the good guys *nudge nudge wink wink*). It's just an overly and wrongly used term in a really complicated situation.

a reply to: Vovin

Second, you're using choice words in your statement that can be perceived in different ways. But to answer it, yes, there probably are separatists of fascist ideology because so many Ukrainians have either moved or defected to the separatists. Whether or not an individual has fascist ideology doesn't reflect the ideology of the larger movement. - See more at: www.abovetopsecret.com...

I am not using choice words because it was a straight forward question about something you posted.

I find this very interesting that you say an individuals ideology doesn't reflect the ideology of a larger movement, so then can you explain why you and others keep calling the Ukraine gov't facists because of certain individuals ideology if it doesn't reflect the larger movement?




Or are you saying that doesn't matter in Ukraine, because Russia says their facists.

Youtube censorship? It says the uploader has made it unavailable in your area, or the US in this case. Is it possible that it was not the uploader but Youtube themselves? I am not too sure about that but I suppose it is possible. Here is the deal when it comes to conflicts across the globe...People, especially those who are nearby, go there to fight. Americans were fighting in the Arab Spring conflicts soon after they broke out. Not military affiliated or private security affiliated individuals either. Just regular people.

People come from all around to fight, but usually those in the highest numbers are either those who are nearby or those who have some interest in the conflict. We know such fascist groups exist, and if they are nearby and feel they have something to fight for, they will show up. This is not the first time something like this has occurred, IF that is what is going on. I don't know because I cannot view the video lol.

a reply to: MrSpad

Well said. I wonder why the communists aren't under the same type of scrutiny? They are certainly readily apparent, talking about reinstating the soviet union and waving around soviet flags? Not that I support fascism but I find soviet style communists just as detestable.

Reports of a horde of neo-Nazis causing trouble at the Russian embassy in Kiev. Not very intelligent, considering that the embassy is Russian territory.

In the pic you see a guy wearing a German uniform, and that red and black flag is neo- Nazi (not anarchist).