Greatest Conjunction aka Bethlehem Star

originally posted by: undo
p.s. try checking everything backwards from 1 AD, to about 200 BC.

Well, If I only had the data. In order to get a calendrical event there would have to have been recorded events, and you're lucky to get a report of the odd solar eclipse, blood moon or similar. Few people recorded events like the ones in this thread even fewer supplied dates, and none of them used our time format, clock and calendar. For all I know, my assumptions surrounding missing pockets of time may simply be because I am not good enough in this whole thing. It's highly likely. Infact, it is most likely indeed, absolutely

a reply to: Reference post #1
a reply to: Reference post #2

Also, when looking at the below pic, notice how these wise men probably crossed the Jordan River near Jerico, this is clearly a reference to the Book of Joshua and Joshua's entry into the Promised Land fronted by the Ark of the Covenant, laying low city after city, killing king after king?



In Joshuah 10 we meet an interesting character, Adonizedek, King of Jerusalem: from Adonai "Lord" + Tzedek "planet Jupiter". Compare with the Genesis story of Melchizedek, king of Salem (Jerusalem), from From Melek "King" and Tzedeq "Justice/Jupiter". And there is an event where the Sun stops, or were Joshua simply playing games with the Amorites because Jupiter (and perhaps Saturn) were in retrograde? Thus making it look like the distance between Jupiter and the Sun would appear to stand still or make a loop in the sky.

Did Joshua's triumph over the Amorites intimidate Herod, where five kings are left crucified, among them Adonizedek, king of Jerusalem? No wonder then, that Herod got cold feet, he must have been terrified after having listened to the magoi and looked up the Book of Joshua and considering the omen value of it all. Had Joshuah come back from beyond like some demi-god to put an end to his reign for good? And somehow it makes sense that Joseph hid Mary and their child in a cave, as if to gain Herod's confidence or compassion in case they were caught, Herod probably identified himself as the king of Jerusalem in that story, and of course all Roman servants were serving Jupiter (Gr. Zeus, identified as Satan in the Apocalypse) and would easily spot the name of their god of love in Amor-ites.

a reply to: undo

Came to think of it: Perhaps Caesarion was Joseph, and that his name was chosen as if to show the great secret in plain sight? Joseph, the son of Jacob became a prince in Egypt, next to Pharaoh in rank. Now this could be somethiing. MRY in Egyptian means Beloved. And the name of the son of their union: Jeshua, a mystical Joshuah, destined to conquer the mystical Kingdom of God. Makes sense to me.

love your thread.
i had no idea of the intense etymology of melchezidek!
now i need to go research it....again.

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

Tzedek doesn't mean the planet Jupiter, but the planet we have named Jupiter, was called Tzedek which is Righteousness. The word Jupiter is derived from essentially Sky Father (DyeusPater), being "king".

Also I'm not so sure Saqquth=Jupiter. Its confusing because there are different renderings of that Amos passage.
We have Moloch and Chiun, and Saqquth and Rompha. Rompha and Chiun are both names for Saturn. But Saqquth means tabernacle, and tabernacle was a female type (with Moloch being a male). Bet meaning house also woman.

It seems to me that When you look at all of them what you have is two Star gods in a tabernacle. Moloch means king, and would correspond to Jupiter along with Chiun/Saturn. These were represented as the Ark of the Covenant. Each was one of the cherubim. The ark had a special tent called Saqquth in this instance.

The Israelites were worshipping the ark of the covenant IMO.

originally posted by: zardust
a reply to: Utnapisjtim

Tzedek doesn't mean the planet Jupiter, but the planet we have named Jupiter, was called Tzedek which is Righteousness. The word Jupiter is derived from essentially Sky Father (DyeusPater), being "king".

Yes, naturally. I had a round whether I should explain meself further, but I left it as "planet Jupiter" in a generic sense, "the planet we call Jupiter".

Also I'm not so sure Saqquth=Jupiter. Its confusing because there are different renderings of that Amos passage.
We have Moloch and Chiun, and Saqquth and Rompha. Rompha and Chiun are both names for Saturn. But Saqquth means tabernacle, and tabernacle was a female type (with Moloch being a male). Bet meaning house also woman.

It seems to me that When you look at all of them what you have is two Star gods in a tabernacle. Moloch means king, and would correspond to Jupiter along with Chiun/Saturn. These were represented as the Ark of the Covenant. Each was one of the cherubim. The ark had a special tent called Saqquth in this instance.

I went through the same reasoning, and must have mixed up the names and words here, and there are many names here used this way or the other depending on which version you use. I read Moloch as Melek, meaning King, and Saqquth meaning Tabernacle, which essentially was anti-type or a representation of the sky, thus 'King of the Sky' became planet Jupiter in my mind. But you are completely right, I see I wrote saqquth means Jupiter, which it doesn't. It means tabernacle.

The Israelites were worshipping the ark of the covenant IMO.

Yes, and the seven planets were either the seven sons of El, The seven Ba'als or the seven arch angels of Jahveh. Most likely the two cherubim on the Ark of Covenant is a representation of planets Jupiter and Saturn (well obviously not the Roman deities, but the planets so named these days).

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

Just wanted to clarify, I thought thats what you meant, but wasn't sure.

Now I do believe these are the same as the Roman deities which would have come later or were offshoots from previous sky deities.


Check out this page askelm.com

This reference in Josephus is important because he stated that Jewish authorities in his time reckoned the seven lamps of the Menorah as representing the 7 planets 9 and that the 12 loaves on the Table of Shewbread represented the 12 months and the solar year. All these astronomical bodies and signs fall within the circle of the Zodiac. This means that a zodiacal circle must have been embedded in the floor of the Holy Place in front of the Altar of Incense, reaching eastward to the curtain at the entrance to the Holy Place, and touching the Menorah in the south and the Table of Shewbread in the north. 10

a reply to: zardust

I'll check out that page, thanks. If you have some extra time, check out my "Pi=3?" thread www.abovetopsecret.com... It brings up a few things relevant to this one here.

so you're saying the old testament priests of melchelzidek were actually priests of moloch?

a reply to: undo

Tsedeq was the Hebrew word/name for the planet we call Jupiter. It translates Justice or Righteousness, but in every aspect it holds royal characteristics, both in lore and astrology. Melek means king, just like the name Moloch, slightly different vocalisation. But seeing how the king of Jerusalem (and Melchizedek's successor) in the time of Joshua was called Adoni-Tzedek. Adonai isn't a proper name for the LORD, but a generic term used as replacement for the name of the god in question. I guess the same could be said about Melchi-Tzedek. Melchi is closer to Malachy name wise; than Molok, but they all basically mean the same thing. They were astrological deities.

All these names were used interchangeably by the different tribes and clans in the area to describe mostly the same deities, ie. astrological and pantheistic ones. The different traditions had different theologies and liturgies, the difference between Ba'al and Jahveh isn't that big really, they were different traditions trying to fill the same gap. So conquering the Land became a fight in linguistics and doctrine. War is the consequence of politics, and this is all war and politics.

ETA: Then again, Abraham did prepare to sacrifice his son Isaac. Evidence, circumstantial as it may be, that Abraham sought to satisfy his God's demand for child sacrifice. And the god Mlk (Moloch) made such demands to his worshippers. Remember that Abraham was searching, and confronted with all these different deities which were seemingly identical, only separated by different names, titles and doctrines; it must have been quite the challenge....

what bothers me about people who do know as much about the area's linguistics, in that timeframe, is that they really try to downplay or outright ignore sumerian data and many resort to just suggesting everything sumerian is sitchin's work, which is of course, wrong. what's happened is, the information didn't come out of the ground for nearly 6000 years, and when it did, there was so much already written and put into university textbooks, critical works and the like, that would be proven wrong by sumerian stuff, that it's treated like it doesn't exist or is some conspiracy theory novelty.

have you connected the name for jupiter in say, babylon or earlier, to see if there's any additional information to be gleaned? i mean seems to me that refusal to refer to the older works of sumer, is helping to keep the whole thing mired in obscurity.

a reply to: undo

The names of plenty of gods of various pantheons are with us even today in our languages, this doesn't mean we still worship them or venerate them in any way. It's what most people would call nonsense. The dark side of language so to speak. Where these gods and demons thrive in all kinds of evil. Mlk (as in Moloch) is a generic term for "king", and bal (as in Ba'al) is a generic term for "lord" or "husband". The names of the gods often reflect core principles or fundamental roots of the languages people spoke. These terms started off as words discribing different things in life, and then a religion was shaped and these words became the names of these words' personified gods.

Like, if anyone says "The Lamb" today, most Christians would identify this term, general as it may be, as a clear reference to Jesus, identical even. An atheist Chinese would get completely different associations, even when speaking English. And today we still use names for the days in our week according to the Germanic and Roman astrological pantheons. We still use the Roman names for the planets, hey we even name our spaceships after Greek gods and heroes. Doesn't mean we worship them really.

Found another Tzadek, and another subtle reference to the Saturn-Jupiter conjunctions in question. Zadok (in ESV-- same name different spelling) was the first High Priest to serve in the Temple of Solomon, and together with Ahimelech he was "designated by King David to help create the various priestly work groups." (source).

1 Chronicles 24:3 With the help of Zadok of the sons of Eleazar, and Ahimelech of the sons of Ithamar, David organized them according to the appointed duties in their service. 4 Since more chief men were found among the sons of Eleazar than among the sons of Ithamar, they organized them under sixteen heads of fathers’ houses of the sons of Eleazar, and eight of the sons of Ithamar.

Tzadek צדוק, means "Righteous" and is the Hebrew name of the planet we call Jupiter.
Ahimelek אחימלך, meaning "the [divine] king is brother" and is possibly an allusion to the planet we call Saturn.

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

"Just think about how long time it takes a pack of very old and very wise men to walk from Baghdad to Jerusalem."

Have you heard of revelation of Magi . It tells magi came from the land of Sher, which they think is China . link. 12 magi mentioned by name followed a star that only they could see which they had been waiting for centuries.

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

I saw a fascinating show in a planetarium a couple years back that discussed the "Star of Bethlehem" in great detail. The opinion presented was just what the OP is referring to. It explained why the event was of importance to Israel (the constellation) and also how it was possible the "star" was visible to them, then disappeared, and then reappeared again (retrograde). It was a very well thought out explanation.

a reply to: glend

Yes, I heard of the book, but haven't read it. More and more such books will surface from the Vatican archives in the coming years I hope, it's a crime that they remain locked down far away from any scrutiny and research. There are tons and tons of books down there that hasn't been opened or looked at for more than thousand years.

a reply to: jjkenobi

Yes, there has developed quite a consensus on the matter it seems. You cannot escape the fact that these conjunctions represented major astrological importance, and they were obviously observed and predicted and played a central part in biblical mystery. Jerusalem was obviously a centre for Tsadek (the planet we call Jupiter) worship, with the pre-Israeli kings named after the planet. And the planet we call Saturn, is named after the Shabbath (Yom Shabbethai) in Hebrew or the other way around, much like how Saturday is named after Saturn in English. Tsadek (the planet we call Jupiter) gave it's name to Thursday, as in "Yom Tsadek" (source: Studies in Hebrew astronomy and mathematics by Solomon Gandz p. 171).