Megalithic Cultures: Were They Influenced by an Advanced and Forgotten Civilization?

originally posted by: sapien82
a reply to: Krazysh0t

and the oceans of the world are the least explored places on earth

wonder why !

Probably due to the difficulty breathing down there, or so I hear.

Harte

a reply to: Harte

yeh that and deadly sea creatures haha

it's mad to think that the modern world was built on our seafaring ability and we mapped the entire surface
but just ignored the depths

The thing is we have the technology to explore most of the areas where we would find things with ease and that is directly off the coasts of modern settled areas . We don't need to be in the Mariana trench to find ancient cultures

DNA lasts longer than carved stones, and so far nobody has been able to identify any sort of reasonable link to a third group of unknown people who interacted with all the advanced cultures around the planet.

Graham Hancock presents evidence of ancient, accurate maps.

www.youtube.com...


But the point that is most convincing here is: the maps had accurate longitude.

If you know the history of sailing, the first modern navy to ever gain that ability was the British Navy. Who then went on to colonize most of the world.

It only became possible once winding clocks were invented. Sun dials are useless for this, and pendulum clocks get messed up by the rocking of the boat. The navy actually put up a huge bounty for anyone who could come up with a way to make a clock that didn't need a pendulum, and lots of people put their minds into inventing for it. The winner went on to make a fortune patenting and selling their invention.

The problem is that, at any given latitude, every part of that line of latitude sees the same stars at some time in the day. So if you don't know what time it is, it is utterly impossible to use the stars to determine which point on that line you are at.



So in antiquity, whoever had invented a way to determine latitude would have dominated the ocean. And their faraway colonies would have made them just as wealthy as Great Britain got to be at the height of its empire.

We would see elements of its culture everywhere. But only elements.

originally posted by: bloodymarvelous
Graham Hancock presents evidence of ancient, accurate maps.

www.youtube.com...


But the point that is most convincing here is: the maps had accurate longitude.

If you know the history of sailing, the first modern navy to ever gain that ability was the British Navy. Who then went on to colonize most of the world.

It only became possible once winding clocks were invented. Sun dials are useless for this, and pendulum clocks get messed up by the rocking of the boat. The navy actually put up a huge bounty for anyone who could come up with a way to make a clock that didn't need a pendulum, and lots of people put their minds into inventing for it. The winner went on to make a fortune patenting and selling their invention.

The problem is that, at any given latitude, every part of that line of latitude sees the same stars at some time in the day. So if you don't know what time it is, it is utterly impossible to use the stars to determine which point on that line you are at.



So in antiquity, whoever had invented a way to determine latitude would have dominated the ocean. And their faraway colonies would have made them just as wealthy as Great Britain got to be at the height of its empire.

We would see elements of its culture everywhere. But only elements.

I'm not willing to watch a Hancock vid. He's lied to me too many times.

There are other ways to make accurate maps without calculating longitude. Read about it here

Harte

Although it is certainly interesting, that article is missing the point. You can accurately map land without a "Chronometer" (accurate clock).

Land has landmarks. You can find a landmark and use surveying techniques to record its location relative to other landmarks. The sea has no landmarks. Once you are out of sight of land, every bit of ocean looks about the same as every other bit.


So mapping the Mediterranean sea is quite possible without a clock. The ocean is entirely enclosed by land (with only the straight of Gibralter connecting it to the Atlantic) The lands that surround it have been extensively mapped.


What Graham Hancock is excited about is the accuracy with which islands, and the shoreline of South America are mapped in Piri Reis map. Unless someone was going on land and surveying the entire coastline, it is hard to see how the longitudes would be correct. Not perfectly correct, of course. But not exactly a wild guess either.

originally posted by: Harte

I'm not willing to watch a Hancock vid. He's lied to me too many times.

There are other ways to make accurate maps without calculating longitude. Read about it here

Harte

Yeah. Most of the OOparts people eventually get overenthusiastic, and let themselves be convinced they have found "proof" of something when they really haven't.

You've got to always be moderate. Never let yourself be caught saying "it is therefore impossible that...." before any sentence. Nothing is really impossible.

While I consider accurate maritime navigation to be quite unlikely for a culture that does not possess accurate clocks, I can't truly be certain that no one has ever found another way. Modern society doesn't know of any other way, however. (Short of using GPS satellites.)

If you watch the video from this other nearby thread:

www.abovetopsecret.com...


You can see that the technology to move large stones doesn't require modern gear. But not only that...

More importantly: you can see that if anyone saw this tech in action, they could easily mimic it. So, if the large blocks were moved using the methods this guy is demonstrating, then pretty much everyone in contact with the culture that started it would have known how to do it also. Short of moving the stones in the dead of night, there is no practical way to keep the methods a secret.

And no self respecting chief or king would be comfortable letting himself be outdone.

It therefore follows that, all of the cultures that built them are likely to have been in contact, however sparse. And the fact nobody remembers points us toward a very ancient culture.

originally posted by: bloodymarvelous



It therefore follows that, all of the cultures that built them are likely to have been in contact, however sparse. And the fact nobody remembers points us toward a very ancient culture.

That certainly does not follow.
You imagine that only one person on Earth could possibly have come up with this method.

Harte

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: theantediluvian

I am in complete agreement. It makes too much sense. I'm really not sure why they don't focus more heavily in areas just off the coast. I understand we have a lot of coastline, but if you start near coastlines that are near already known ancient civilizations then work your way towards other civilizations, you could narrow your areas down.

Who would be paying for it? Most archaeology these days is is connected to the development process. I don't think this government is about to raise taxes to support underwater archaeology.

originally posted by: JohnnyCanuck

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: theantediluvian

I am in complete agreement. It makes too much sense. I'm really not sure why they don't focus more heavily in areas just off the coast. I understand we have a lot of coastline, but if you start near coastlines that are near already known ancient civilizations then work your way towards other civilizations, you could narrow your areas down.

Who would be paying for it? Most archaeology these days is is connected to the development process. I don't think this government is about to raise taxes to support underwater archaeology.

Long time no read JC! Yes underwater archaeology is about 50 times more expensive than a land op., It requires specialists (cannot use cheap student and volunteer labor in most cases) that is why you don't see it happening. Some is and is concentrated (as of a year ago) on known - already found - cities and shipwrecks. Fortunately more underwater drone use, etc.

originally posted by: Harte

originally posted by: bloodymarvelous



It therefore follows that, all of the cultures that built them are likely to have been in contact, however sparse. And the fact nobody remembers points us toward a very ancient culture.

That certainly does not follow.
You imagine that only one person on Earth could possibly have come up with this method.


Harte

Yep, while there was regional trade - which you can tell by utilization of stone tool making sites and some movement of shell and other items like RO it wasn't extensive if you go back that far (AFAWCT).

a reply to: Hanslune

Hanslune! How are you doing friend?
Good to see you stopped by for a visit.

originally posted by: punkinworks10
a reply to: Hanslune

Hanslune! How are you doing friend?
Good to see you stopped by for a visit.

Harte dragged me over here to show me the gross stupidity rampant upon the boards here - lovely madness indeed - not referring to you of course!

originally posted by: LABTECH767
a reply to: Logarock

Scholars often lament the burning of the library of alexandri but what chin did was far worse, he never only destroyed the manuscripts but also the scholars and set about in a cultural purge much like mao's cultural revolution to unify china based around a set of principles.

Nevertheless it was a historical hinge upon which much of world history is based but we truly do not really know the history of china or the seven kingdom's with any clarity before his reign though there are legend's of a former empire and it is possible chin was not the first emperor of all china but simply reunified the seven state's.

And one of his magistrates then executed a mass book burning. Destroying any book that was not purely technical in nature. Considered a necessary part of making the empire last forever.

I wonder what he felt he needed to hide from future generations?

originally posted by: Harte

originally posted by: bloodymarvelous



It therefore follows that, all of the cultures that built them are likely to have been in contact, however sparse. And the fact nobody remembers points us toward a very ancient culture.

That certainly does not follow.
You imagine that only one person on Earth could possibly have come up with this method.

Harte

For thousands of years, historians could only guess how it was done. That indicates that, for thousands of years, nobody managed to reinvent it.

In the dark ages, genius inventors were often regarded as witches and simply killed. Not saying nobody could think of it. But how would they persuade others to help them to actually attempt it? With no proof of concept, it's all just an idea.

So the most sensible explanation is that the technology spread from a single point. It's hard to invent (where "invent" means also create a proof of concept) but easy to imitate.

You would then assert that the Inca were in contact with the Ancient Egyptians? Even though their existence is separated by millennia?
And that is only one example.

Harte

originally posted by: Harte
You would then assert that the Inca were in contact with the Ancient Egyptians? Even though their existence is separated by millennia?
And that is only one example.

Harte

Hey Harte, an aside. Once long ago on Usenet, I used a similar phrase to yours above with the word millennia, and the fine fellow (a believer in a lost global civilization I believe) said he had never heard of a people or civilization called, 'Millennia'. He was probably not a native English speaker thou, but still funny.

originally posted by: Harte

originally posted by: Antigod

originally posted by: Ramcheck
So many amazing coincidences (too many perhaps) and the likeness in all things built by the Egyptians and the Inca. It's an odd one. Because one thing troubles me. The Inca were obviously of East Asian / Indian origin from the main Eastwards migration, they've gone over the Bering Strait at some point and taken the 'Pacific Highway' so to speak. Egyptians however appear to be far from it, if I am correct in assuming we still regard the modern Nubian as the product of those Egyptian workers? Completely different race. Please correct me if I'm wrong, a bit behind at the minute. It just doesn't make sense, and if it HAS to then we have to re-write the migration story.

there's zero evidence of the Inca being of Asian origin. DNA from the locals is entirely native American, and all their crops were local.

Native American DNA is of Asian origin.

They came from there over the Bering land bridge.

Harte

You and I have talked about this before in other threads... that theory has come into question in recent years.

Study: The First Americans Didn't Arrive by the Bering Land Bridge

University of Copenhagen researchers Eske Willerslev, Mikkel Pedersen, and their colleagues found that this harsh route only became viable for human migration 12,600 years ago—when the first plants and animals showed up in the region. Meanwhile, archaeologists have ample evidence that people were living in the Americas long before then.

“We know conclusively that human groups were in the interior before that date—perhaps as early as 15,000 calibrated radiocarbon years before present—so it is highly unlikely that they came south through the corridor,” said Michael O’Brien, an anthropologist and current academic vice president of Texas A&M University–San Antonio, who wasn’t involved in the study. “A more likely scenario is that they came south along the Pacific coast.”

Genetic studies reveal other possible sources of migration. Australo-Melanesian genes have been discovered in Native American blood lines. Seems as though there were several waves of migration to the Americas rather than just one mass migration across the Bering Land Bridge.

a reply to: Blarneystoner

There were multiple migrations from several different populations.
The australo/melanesian traces are only found in s small set of people deep in the amazon.

originally posted by: punkinworks10
a reply to: Blarneystoner

There were multiple migrations from several different populations.
The australo/melanesian traces are only found in s small set of people deep in the amazon.

Right... I was addressing Harte's contention that the "single wave" Bering Land Bridge migration theory is correct. Recent archaeological finds and genetic studies seem to indicate otherwise.