Simple question on Abortion

originally posted by: boymonkey74
My 2nd wife had an abortion without telling me.

I'm sorry to hear that. Really. I"m sure that was painful for you.

originally posted by: Bone75
Which is exactly why abortion should be illegal.

Not going to happen. Like it or not, it's here to stay.


TOPIC - Both the man and the woman are equally responsible for pregnancy.
Either one could use birth control and it wouldn't have happened.
That's the bottom line.

originally posted by: FlyersFan

Not going to happen. Like it or not, it's here to stay.

I disagree. Changes are taking place all over the country, but you won't read about them here unless one of our resident liberals needs to use the story to bash Christians.

Ive come to do the right thing and drop off a box of tissues in this thread. I may return with some chocolates for the inevitable "why cant you agree with me!" tantrums.

You're all welcome!

originally posted by: Bone75

originally posted by: FlyersFan

Not going to happen. Like it or not, it's here to stay.

I disagree. Changes are taking place all over the country, but you won't read about them here unless one of our resident liberals needs to use the story to bash Christians.

Hypothetically, they banned all abortions tomorrow - Do you think women will stop seeking them?

a reply to: SearchLightsInc

Of course they wouldn't. Just as pedophiles don't stop seeking kids to rape.

originally posted by: Bone75
a reply to: SearchLightsInc

Of course they wouldn't. Just as pedophiles don't stop seeking kids to rape.

So what is with the crusade to get it outlawed?

And before you retort "why is pedophilia illegal then?" - Dont play dumb. There's a big difference between an adult molesting a child and a woman making decisions about her own body.

a reply to: SearchLightsInc

Just because there will still be a demand for it doesn't mean our laws should condone it. I could've used any number of laws people break all the time, but we're talking about killing a baby which is worse than raping one in my opinion.

Teen pregnancy would drop. Infidelity would drop, which in return would lower the murder rate and violent crime altogether. Not to mention the divorce rate. Mental illness and psychotropic drug use would decline as well.

originally posted by: Bone75
a reply to: SearchLightsInc

Just because there will still be a demand for it doesn't mean our laws should condone it. I could've used any number of laws people break all the time, but we're talking about killing a baby which is worse than raping one in my opinion.

Teen pregnancy would drop. Infidelity would drop, which in return would lower the murder rate and violent crime altogether. Not to mention the divorce rate. Mental illness and psychotropic drug use would decline as well.

If you're seriously claiming that banning abortions would allow all of the above to happen, I have to say that you're hopelessly deluded. Not going to happen. Ban abortions and all you do is drive it underground.

originally posted by: Bone75
a reply to: SearchLightsInc

Just because there will still be a demand for it doesn't mean our laws should condone it. I could've used any number of laws people break all the time, but we're talking about killing a baby which is worse than raping one in my opinion.

Teen pregnancy would drop. Infidelity would drop, which in return would lower the murder rate and violent crime altogether. Not to mention the divorce rate. Mental illness and psychotropic drug use would decline as well.

All by banning abortion? Im not convinced.

And also the fact that there is clearly a 50/50 split as to whether people think its murder or not is reason enough to keep it legal and safe. I understand that you have your views and im not even going to attempt to change them, i just think banning abortion out right will only make many peoples lives worse. Women's more so.

It does all come down to personal responsibility and we are living in the age were the last choice a woman has is to undergo an abortion. No man should ever be allowed to interfere with that choice.

originally posted by: SearchLightsInc

originally posted by: Bone75
a reply to: SearchLightsInc

Just because there will still be a demand for it doesn't mean our laws should condone it. I could've used any number of laws people break all the time, but we're talking about killing a baby which is worse than raping one in my opinion.

Teen pregnancy would drop. Infidelity would drop, which in return would lower the murder rate and violent crime altogether. Not to mention the divorce rate. Mental illness and psychotropic drug use would decline as well.

All by banning abortion? Im not convinced.

And also the fact that there is clearly a 50/50 split as to whether people think its murder or not is reason enough to keep it legal and safe. I understand that you have your views and im not even going to attempt to change them, i just think banning abortion out right will only make many peoples lives worse. Women's more so.

It does all come down to personal responsibility and we are living in the age were the last choice a woman has is to undergo an abortion. No man should ever be allowed to interfere with that choice.

I have to say that I second that. I don't particularly like abortion, but I have to say that as a man I am unqualified to speak about it due to my gender. It irritates me massively when I see congressional hearings in which the speakers tend to be overwhelmingly male. What the hell would they know about it?

originally posted by: boymonkey74
Real men would accept its the womans choice and not force her to carry your child.

...and a real woman would accept the fact that she's particpated in the creation of a life and killing it is selfish and immoral.

We seem to have a decided lack of real men and real women in the modern western world.

I usually stay well clear of abortion topics because, frankly, as a proud dad seeing people discuss the killing of a baby in the same manner as they would discuss a woman deciding to get a dramatically shorter hair style makes me puke in my mouth. Forgive me if my heart doesn't exactly break for all the poor chicks who have simply used abortions as a method of birth control. We have laws in the civilized world that clearly state murder is illegal. To get around those laws, the spineless have opted to argue the ridiculous "when does life begin?" in a direct effort to completely dehumanize the life growing inside an unworthy woman's uterus. Meanwhile, here is Responsibility Land, you've got parents who experience utter heartbreak and emotional devestation over miscarriages... try telling those parents that the lost life they mourn over isn't a life at all.

Yeah, there are exceptions to every rule. Medically necessary abortions are a reality and, I have no doubt, any woman who is faced with that choice is emotionally ripped to shreds.

originally posted by: Bone75
a reply to: SearchLightsInc

Just because there will still be a demand for it doesn't mean our laws should condone it. I could've used any number of laws people break all the time, but we're talking about killing a baby which is worse than raping one in my opinion.

Teen pregnancy would drop. Infidelity would drop, which in return would lower the murder rate and violent crime altogether. Not to mention the divorce rate. Mental illness and psychotropic drug use would decline as well.

LOL ...LOL...

Make abortion illegal and in one fell swoop we have a crime free society

You are blaming abortion for :-

# Teen pregnancy

# Murder

# Infidelity

# violent crime

# and the divorce rate ........ unbelievable


A foetus is not a child. And unless you have been raped I don't think

you are qualified to pass a judgement .... ASK A RAPE VICTIM.

originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: boymonkey74
Real men would accept its the womans choice and not force her to carry your child.

...and a real woman would accept the fact that she's particpated in the creation of a life and killing it is selfish and immoral.

We seem to have a decided lack of real men and real women in the modern western world.

I usually stay well clear of abortion topics because, frankly, as a proud dad seeing people discuss the killing of a baby in the same manner as they would discuss a woman deciding to get a dramatically shorter hair style makes me puke in my mouth. Forgive me if my heart doesn't exactly break for all the poor chicks who have simply used abortions as a method of birth control. We have laws in the civilized world that clearly state murder is illegal. To get around those laws, the spineless have opted to argue the ridiculous "when does life begin?" in a direct effort to completely dehumanize the life growing inside an unworthy woman's uterus. Meanwhile, here is Responsibility Land, you've got parents who experience utter heartbreak and emotional devestation over miscarriages... try telling those parents that the lost life they mourn over isn't a life at all.

Yeah, there are exceptions to every rule. Medically necessary abortions are a reality and, I have no doubt, any woman who is faced with that choice is emotionally ripped to shreds.

I am personally offended that you would regard a woman's uterus "unworthy" because she did not want to carry a child to term. It's quite offensive, more so coming from a man who does not have a clue what it like to have a pregnancy scare.

a reply to: SearchLightsInc

I honestly get annoyed at my own sex sometimes...there are things men can not decide because we don't have a clue about it and the biggest one is pregnancy.
Men have no say in it in my opinion it is upto the woman sure fellas can advice and such but it isn't us carrying the baby.

Oh and Bone75 it will always be legal unless the USA becomes a right wing theocracy...Here in the UK you have no chance making it illegal.
Do you know the facts about back street abortions? how many women died? we have to make sure it is safe and regulated for the health of the woman.
I would love to know which clandestine movement you think exists that will ban it lol.
Not a chance.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

I have had a still born son and also a wife whom had an abortion but didn't tell me. I still think it is up to the woman.
Not all women use it as birth control and you are tarring all with the harlot brush..not on.
Women and men can have accidents, the condom may break, the pill may not work.


Okay here is a question for you anti abortion GUYS..
You get together with a lady and you and her have sex using full protection and a couple of weeks later she is pregnant.
She is at Uni doing a degree in Physics or whatever and in her last year.
She wants an abortion and you can't talk her out of it.
What do you think should happen?.

IMO until things drastically change for the better in the Americas both sexes should have a vasectomy(men) / their tubes tied (women) before they hit puberty and then when they are thinking about children they must show a stable family setting and the means/potential means enough to support them until they are adults (Amish and the like excepted but since they aren't on the school, public assistance or property of the state from birth they get a pass)



BTW Abortion was only illegal from about 1850 - 1970 or so and that was because the white people were afraid that the brown people would outnumber them in the future.

Some wives are pressured into having children that they cannot cope with and wind up drowning them in the bathtub when they are old enough to know who is killing them. murderpedia.org... The older son who survived the murder attempt wouldn't even look at his mother during the trial. I know this second hand from someone who still worked with Fernando (I also worked with him but left before the murder)


I would like to know the abortion rate in matriarchal societies? I would venture a guess that it is close to zero as is most unpleasant man made conditions in society.

I know this first hand because I worked with X (family member involved).

In a rational world women would be paid enough to support both them and their children at a rate that would give them a standard of living at or above a single mans. A husband would supplement the income and share in the joys but not be depended upon because by nature they are more likely to leave or die before the mother.

How many successful groups in nature are determined by the male? Lions- okay, Seahorses-Give you that , 95% of others are either equal or matriarchies. Check out a wild horse herd, you think the stallion is doing anything but fighting the other boys off and walking point? No.

originally posted by: Ophiuchus 13
a reply to: James1982

As MEN are the supposed to be able to do all that the WOMEN do? And visa versa?
the females have to carry the seeds physically so they automatically have ruling over their bodies. If males carried the seeds say like seahorses maybe a level of equality can be established as the men would know more how it feels emotionally and internally to carry the new births...

To clarify not saying either decision is acceptable or not for many dynamics can be at play to determine the descision making, just commenting on the OP.

It's absolutely reasonable to give total control of a featus to the mother, because it's inside her body. I'm not against that.

I'm against the hypocrisy that a woman can just decide to abort a baby, but a father can't decide to opt out of birth responsibilities. Biology is what is it is, if something is in your body you should have control over it one way or another.

But once again it's in YOUR body, why do you have the right to force a man to support/raise a child he doesn't want, if you have 100% total control over the situation once conception.

Deciding upon the act of sex (assuming consensual) is a 50/50% choice.

Whether or not a baby lives due to that sex is 100% the womans choice

Then if the baby is born it goes back to 50/50%

If you cannot see the incredible hypocrisy of that I don't know what to say...

It's no different than public risk for private profit, or taxation without representation.

If you want CONTROL you must also accept the RESPONSIBILITY that control carries with it. Once you remove any choice from the father, you accept the full responsibility on yourself.

People talk about how it's OK to abort babies because the mother is too young to properly care for it, or she is too poor, etc. What about fathers that are too young? Too poor? Why don't they enjoy the same opportunity of relieving themselves from that responsibility as well?

If you are a man and you don't want a baby:

Just don't have sex!

If you are a woman and don't want the baby:

Just don't have sex!

Or have an Abortion

Or give it up for adoption.

This is not hard stuff to understand, I suspect the chance to have your cake and eat it too is far too tempting for people to actually care about whether or not their views carry hypocrisy along with them.

originally posted by: eletheia
a reply to: James1982



Taking the second part of your question first, the child is already

in existence so it is necessary and right that he takes his share of the

responsibility?


And in the instance of an abortion the woman is not walking away from

the responsibility of a child ...

She is in fact taking the decision of not to be in the position of

having the responsibility before there is a child ...

Women have Abortions for different reasons. Plenty do so because they simply aren't in a good position to raise a child. I'm not against that at all.

I'm simply against hypocrisy, and this issue is rife with it (on both sides)

originally posted by: beansidhe
a reply to: ignorant_ape

Women have abortions because they carry the baby. Simple biology.

Are you asking me why is the decision their's alone? It shouldn't be, in an ideal world it should be a joint decision.
But in saying that, no man should EVER expect a woman to carry a baby that she feels she cannot. Babies and women are two parts of the same body for 9 months.

The OP made the presumption that's it's 'ok for women to walk away from their responsibility'. My point is that it's 'not ok', it doesn't feel 'ok' and that it's very easy to assume that women who have abortions don't care about the baby they are carrying. Every scenario is different, and complicated.
Therefore making it into a man v woman debate doesn't really cut it.

I'm not making it into a man v woman debate. The laws sit as they do. Once a woman is pregnant a man is totally 100% locked in for at least 18 years. He can do NOTHING legal to avoid this. A woman CAN.

If we are going to make laws controlling how reproduction is dealed with, they need to be fair and balance. There is nothing fair and balanced about having 100% control and 50% responsibility for women, or 0% control and 50% responsibility.

You wanna tell me the world isn't fair? Duh. We aren't talking about the world. We are talking about LAWS. Which we made up, and the whole idea of laws in the first place is to make society a fair place.

I understand your point better forgive me.
I understand and agree in a way but what can we do?
Just make sure you double wrap it if you don't want to pay for a child for 18 years.
Education is the key again as it is with many subjects but that education begins with parents and some just don't care or have warped views on modern life.