Which Christ? The Son of Lucifer who died for your sins, or The Son of God who came to teach?

Sorry don't mean to derail the thread.

I think Lucifer is trying to fool and is fooling us. He is old and smart and slick like a the best salesman we can think of. He can make war sound like peace. He can make killing a human easier than controlling him. He has manipulated the past so that we know not where we come from or makes us doubt at least. He just is the original seed of malice and forbidden knowledge and he knows that we will think we did all this stuff cuz we are a bit smart but in reality he told us how to do it all. He know are weakness' and is using them like a champ against us. Kind of like what Mcdonald does with luring your children to throw a fit so you can give them 15 bucks.

HOWEVER, what is important is what THE FATHER SAID. Propagate His words, give attention to the light of the Father not Lucifer the light but the light of the LORD OF HEAVENS, the creator of all including Lucifer. No?

a reply to: bitsforbytes

Matthew 11:27
All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.

There is One Teacher/Instructor - The Christ/The Messiah (Matthew 23:10) and there is One God / One Father who is in Heaven (Matthew 23:9).

Prophets spoke, but no one really understood God clearly, which is why Jesus made it clear:

Matthew 22:40
So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

Matthew 5:44-45
But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

The Law is Compassion (treating others as you would like to be treated).


The main deception Christians fail for is that Forgiveness is a free gift from God and if you believe that Jesus died for everyone's sins then you are already forgiven and going to heaven, but we are taught that this is false, that you must Forgive in order to be Forgiven (Matthew 6:14-15).

As for other religions (not all, obviously), the main deception is believing that God is not 100% Good but that there is some destructiveness in him, some darkness. We are told that it is Satan and Sin that destroys and that it is not God that created death, but the resistance of Love (God is Love - 1 John 4:8) which is usually called "sin".

Its not about that. Its a code for crucifying the ego. And attaining Higher Mind But if one did come in, the one who wrote in the sand with his finger when they were trying to murder the woman caught in adultery, ie telling them that they do not set the rules that he follows his own heart and discernment, and then said, let he who is without sin, cast the first stone, let me tell you, if he really was murdered symbolically he literally freed us all.

Do you want to know why?

They believe in KARMA, law of consequence, with every little thing a huge IOU, and a soul trap forever.

But karma, as hard as it is for those who have gone through hardships, doesnt mean that.

It means, as a reminder to the soul, like de je vu is a marker, a way of saying, look, see the pattern, you have been here before. Look, you did that 3 times now, and you got the same outcome, so please, look to heal the past, and make ammends. Learn the lessons therein and let this go.

Now, when you get in the way of another and cast a finger at them, you are committing a sin. Ie you can't judge them, you can protect yourself from criminals, yes. But your job is to understand and intercede for others that they may wake up and start to do the work they came to do and overcome their weaknesses and progress.

Love/God/Goodness/Good Family/Family/Higher Self and your very oversoul, is not interested in any form of punishment, Life is punishment, we're built in pain machines, and the perfect knowledge life review on the other side is also a punishment in a sense, for if we haven't tried to overcome ourselves and reach out to those in need, when we feel it from their perspectives shame is going to fill us.

However, the only purpose of the school is to learn the lesson. So a repentant heart is a big thing.

Thus, if there was a physical Christ, because Christ is the word within, the connection between you and Creator/Family and hence is either your Higher Self, or Higher Self's Higher Self, perhaps up the line. Branches on the vine, all connected.

But if there was a physical teacher, and they murdered him, though he was a good man who had achieved higher mind, then they destroyed their very concepts of karma and the mind trip they trap other minds in.

Because its a mind trap, spirit/mind/consciousness can get stuck and take the long way home when they buy into false dogma.

So he threw that false dogma out didn't he?

They killed a good and innocent man, impossible if karma were true. Their rule of law and karma is over and his death upon the cross, which was not a sacrifice from his perspective or Goodness/God's, maybe from their dark hat one since they like to ritually sacrifice everyone and nature too, but.....their mismanagement and lies and soul traps are over. All contracts, like Isaiah in chapter 28 said, Null and Void.

Now as for the pope and their latin, that is creepy. Notwithstanding that there is probably a meaning to that term but I don't want to be dragged kicking and screaming against my childhood programming into something that they know sounds bad to most people. Shame on them if they do have a hidden positive in that term because it is irresponsible to use any term that is against the morality and understanding of the people.

Shame on them.

However, I wish to add, that since the real messages in the bible are inner gnostic. And the first clue is Genesis, 32 30 where Jacob meets up with Creator via his pineal/third eye, and so do we all.....So, within, we seek and discover Spirit and Direction. Then we are shine outer, the love and peace we find within.

But outer, ie, the Church, is all dross, shadow, mirror, hologram, materialism, not spirit and love and inner sanctuary.

So kind of representing the opposite.

However, the intentions of heart and love cover alot of errors, so this isnt against anyone who uses discernment and chooses positive peace and love in the scriptures and good within their church's, because many very good people attend church.

One side will be on Jesus good side the other will not. And the ones who will be goat will still believe in their mind that they where sheep until they are judged. That is what happens to those who wear Religion as a garment/sheep skin.

Matthew 25:31-46 Complete Jewish Bible (CJB) 31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, accompanied by all the angels, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be assembled before him, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates sheep from goats. 33 The ‘sheep’ he will place at his right hand and the ‘goats’ at his left. 34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you whom my Father has blessed, take your inheritance, the Kingdom prepared for you from the founding of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you made me your guest, 36 I needed clothes and you provided them, I was sick and you took care of me, I was in prison and you visited me.’ 37 Then the people who have done what God wants will reply, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and make you our guest, or needing clothes and provide them? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison, and visit you?’ 40 The King will say to them, ‘Yes! I tell you that whenever you did these things for one of the least important of these brothers of mine, you did them for me!’ 41 “Then he will also speak to those on his left, saying, ‘Get away from me, you who are cursed! Go off into the fire prepared for the Adversary and his angels! 42 For I was hungry and you gave me no food, thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 a stranger and you did not welcome me, needing clothes and you did not give them to me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’ 44 Then they too will reply, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry, thirsty, a stranger, needing clothes, sick or in prison, and not take care of you?’ 45 And he will answer them, ‘Yes! I tell you that whenever you refused to do it for the least important of these people, you refused to do it for me!’ 46 They will go off to eternal punishment, but those who have done what God wants will go to eternal life.”

a reply to: LittleByLittle

Yes but that is a code too and we don't want to let anyone down here, so start to roll up your sleeves, its all about overcoming the animalistic, horned beast, saturn, the dark spots in our flesh, the beast, the material world, war, anger, retaliation, judgement, greed, apathy, control over others, murder, extortion, many many negative things we need to work on mirrored in the world.

Help, love, intercede and don't try to rope them into a religious dogma, because its a spiritual message. Even if you do believe in such things as one ark, one way, have compassion and help anyway without judgements.

a reply to: arpgme

I would like to make a few points. 1) The Catholic church is in no way, shape, or form Christianity. It is a false religion, mainly based on Paganism and man made, unbiblical tradition. There is a BIG, and I mean VERY BIG, difference between a Bible believing Christian and a Catholic. 2) The term Lucifer is only found once in the entire Bible, KJV and prior... it is not in any of the modern translations, and there is good reason

Isaiah 14:12 (KJV)

How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

(NIV)

How you have fallen from heaven, morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations!

(ESV)

How you are fallen from heaven, O Day Star, son of Dawn! How you are cut down to the ground, you who laid the nations low!


There is an important cultural context that must be understood in this verse, as well as the overall context of this entire passage surrounding this verse. The cultural context is that back then, without the convenience of clocks, the people told time by the positions of the stars at night, and the sun during the day. Early in the morning before sunrise, if you look to the east you will see a very bright star. Actually, that isn't a star... it is the planet Venus, however the people of that time period didn't know that. The people referred to this star as the Day Star, Morning Star, Light bringer, Light Bearer, etc... because they knew that when they saw this star rise over the Eastern horizon that the sun wasn't too far behind. This eventually ended up getting translated into Latin by Jerome in the Latin Vulgate, which was the official Bible of the Catholic Church for centuries, and the Latin word for Day Star/Morning Star is Lucifer. So is Satan's name Lucifer? Probably not, and by the way, neither is Satan... Satan is a title that means "Adversary" or "Accuser". Just like Christ isn't a name... it is also a title which means Anointed One, and is the Greek equivalent to the Hebrew word "Messiah".

3) This passage also has a broader context, and it is speaking to the fall of the King of Babylon, and comparing him to the day star. The underlying theme here is his fall is much like Satan's fall from heaven, because the King of Babylon received his power and authority from Satan.


As far as your commentary on Jesus is concerned... you have taken many things so far out of context that I don't even know where to begin... so I won't.

a reply to: arpgme

Easter 2013 was the first day of my awakening. I watched them sing this song (there is vid of 2013 as well), and I couldn't believe my ears! This opened up the whole "deception" can of worms for me. Big eye opener about the Roman Catholic church (and allllllll its powerful tenacles), and frankly, every organized religion that came from "Mother Church". Personally, I follow "Rabbi Jesus", not idolized "Christ on the Cross" of Roman Catholicism.

I would like to have a Catholic comment? Are there other liturgies that use this title?

Lucifer is not evil, Satan is. Satan is who Lucifer became after the fall. Lucifer is the light bearer, Satan is the bearer of darkness. Those who choose the light become light bearers, those who choose the darkness become an accomplice of Satan.

Lucifer is the good side of humanity, Satan is the evil side.

a reply to: OptimusSubprime

But Catholics believe in the bible don't they? So there really is no difference. They believe in the same book as you, if their interpretation is wrong what makes you so sure that yours is right? Catholicism was the first church, the church that all other denominations branched off from.

Catholicism is the root of all of Christianity, if the root is no good then how are the branches, yours in particular, any better than the root? The fruit is only as good as the tree, the tree is only as good as its roots.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Lucifer represents Pride (he wanted to raise his "throne above the stars of God")

and Satan represents Wrath ("he was a murderer from the beginning")

According to The 7 Deadly Sins there are 7 Demons associated with each, and it lists "Lucifer" as "Pride" and "Satan" as "Wrath" agreeing with this interpretation.

Christ is The Teacher, The Humble One
Lucifer is The Prideful One

so in that sense "Lucifer" is evil since he is the Opposite of Christ who came from Heaven.

I have often wondered this. If the Christ Christians serve is is truly The Christ.

For example one commandment is Do not make Idols or pray to them. What about Crosses or pictures and sculptures of Jesus?
Also think it is funny how they say the mark of the breast will be on the hand or forehead. At the catholic church I had saw A woman with a rosary in her hand and putting holy water on her forehead making a cross.

originally posted by: Unity_99
a reply to: LittleByLittle

Yes but that is a code too and we don't want to let anyone down here, so start to roll up your sleeves, its all about overcoming the animalistic, horned beast, saturn, the dark spots in our flesh, the beast, the material world, war, anger, retaliation, judgement, greed, apathy, control over others, murder, extortion, many many negative things we need to work on mirrored in the world.

Help, love, intercede and don't try to rope them into a religious dogma, because its a spiritual message. Even if you do believe in such things as one ark, one way, have compassion and help anyway without judgements.

Controlling the ego sometimes even demonic beast. . I do have a bit of apathy that things are probably gonna have to become worse before the real change here on earth. But in the end all works out. I am a bit bored here on earth. I wanna go play and meet the other ones.

originally posted by: arpgme
Wouldn't teaching this other Christ, this son of Lucifer be the perfect trick from the devil in order to get you to sin more since you believe it doesn't matter?

The only reason evil thrives is because good people do nothing to stop it.

The idea that you can sin all your life, repent right before dying and be saved in paradise seems all like bull crap to me.
Oh and on top of that, pitch in the idea of an antichrist that can't be stopped and we've got a close to perfect recipe for breeding evil.

I'm pretty sure the god in the bible isn't the universal God and the light after death isn't the way to leave this wretched place. It's all just a big trap system, there's much more out there I'm sure of it.

a reply to: DeadSeraph

hey thanks so much for the link regarding the translations of "lucifer", I gotta work on those latin conjugations! glad you and godlover25 contributed, very informative.

a reply to: theMediator

It was supposed a narrow gate that few would find. The false prophets came and divided and conquered.

Matthew 7 13"Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. 14"For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it. 15"Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. 16"You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they? 17"So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. 18"A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. 19"Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20"So then, you will know them by their fruits. 21"Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. 22"Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' 23"And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'

The bible is exactly as it should be to guide the true ones and divert the untrue ones while the believe they are true.

The story of Christ was a collaboration between the Romans and an apocalyptic group of early Christians. It was carefully sculpted to assist the Romans in spreading a religion that supports a militaristic government where the population makes willing sacrifices for the state. Christianity is like obedience training for militaristic nationalism. The Romans were not stupid and knew exactly what they were doing.

As Joseph Campbell said many times, the real tragedy of our modern era is the repeated mistake of turning what was intended as metaphors into facts we swear to die for.

a reply to: arpgme

You can interpret this how you want, BUT if you read what Christ said He did NOT say to do evil and sin, but all have come SHORT of the glory of God. In Other words yeah you will lie in life you may do bad things, but if you try do and be a good person you will be forgiven.

Man some you can think whatever you want, but again read what Christ said during his time on earth. Give me a break, your OP was just not right, in fact I think it was stupid. Sorry, but I am entitled to my opinion. Anyone can take almost anything and switch it up!

It never ceased to amaze me how a blasphemous statement like Christ son of Lucifer can be made, Christ cast lucifer out and Lucifer the shining one was a false light while Christ was the light shining unto a people living in darkness, he never taunted the jew's but called them to repentance and when they did not heed the word of the meshiach he called the gentiles.
A house divided can not stand
Do not say of yourselves we are children of abraham for I tell you that god can raise up children to abraham from the very stone's of the earth
There have been a number of EVIL and erroneous thread's of late based on false and made up text's and originating in certain groups of a well known sect whom think Lucifer is a good guy and forget he got his arse kicked and cast out of heaven as he hated humanity god's children and in his jealousy tried to steal the very throne of god.
And I point out the error of the neo Luciferians whom confuse the devil with god, HE is not the bright morning star and that was a pagan god LU also associated with the sun, indeed the christ can give the bright morning star to whome he will so Lucifer has no authority over it.

Do you not value your immortal soul and is temporary gratification or being part of a brotherhood which can not save you in any way, has never raised the dead despite a mock coffin ceremony and only serves the vested interests of it's members and not god really worth selling our eternity and betraying god's gift of salvation for.

So many have no faith and are speculating as the lord and his apostles said they would, in his own life they accused him of being empowered by Baal Zebub and he simply replied if satan cast satan out how can satan stand.

originally posted by: kurthall
You can interpret this how you want

This is not my interpretation. I am telling you what the majority believes.

originally posted by: kurthall
BUT if you read what Christ said He did NOT say to do evil and sin, but all have come SHORT of the glory of God. In Other words yeah you will lie in life you may do bad things, but if you try do and be a good person you will be forgiven.

"For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses." -Matthew 6:14-15

originally posted by: kurthall
Man some you can think whatever you want, but again read what Christ said during his time on earth.

I agree Matthew 5 (or Specifically Matthew 5:44-45 is a great summary)

originally posted by: kurthall
Give me a break, your OP was just not right, in fact I think it was stupid. Sorry, but I am entitled to my opinion. Anyone can take almost anything and switch it up!

You don't have to apologize for having your own opinion.