Prove Evolution Is False - Even Without the Bible

On and on and on...the arguments for and against are endless. Prove evolution theory is wrong? Prove it is right. Prove creation theory is false? Prove it is true.

No-one can do any of these things. But everyone wants to. What a huge difference it would make if someone could settle the issue once and for all. There is so much at stake here yet the actual truth continues to hide from us. Evolution is the logic way of explaining life yet logic can only go so far before the waters become murky and slippery. With creationism it is logic that trips everyone up. Talk about maddening.

So this is what life is - neither this nor that yet we are convinced it must be one or the other. Why would God do this to us? Why does he play with us like he is the cat and we are the mice? This is presuming there is a God and the evolutionists insist there isn't except they can't prove it. Those who say there is a God, a Creator, do so because they 'know' there is more to life than the logic of the evolutionists but that's all they do know, and that's not enough.

The issue will never be cut and dry. Only God can settle the matter and its because he doesn't that the evolutionists have become so adamant that they are right. Meanwhile the creationists suffer the humility of not being able to put forward convincing arguments in their favour, at least not of the kind that the evolutionists will listen to.

Personally I have given up. I will die as we all will, and if I discover then that the creationists are right well and good. Until then as long as I breathe I will dismiss anything the evolutionists say because, really, if they do happen to be right and there is no creator then who cares what they think or say? Nothing will matter. Life will have been a pointless exercise. The wonder, the beauty, the magnificence will have been for nothing. So, you evolutionists out there, just stay away from me, okay? And I will stay clear of you.

I believe we have ourselves a troll (OP) here guys.
If not though, there's still no real point wasting energy on them since they're clearly to dense/ set in their mindset to listen to reason.

originally posted by: RedEyes619
I believe we have ourselves a troll (OP) here guys.

If not though, there's still no real point wasting energy on them since they're clearly to dense/ set in their mindset to listen to reason.

If you are refering to me you are being a fool. I'm simply passing comment. If you can't take it stay home.

a reply to: Shema

Nothing will matter. Life will have been a pointless exercise. The wonder, the beauty, the magnificence will have been for nothing

If you seriously feel you have to invoke a fictional creator to give life wonder, beauty and magnificence then I feel very sorry for you. Those qualities are all around us in the here and now, but the religious mind ignores them in favour of some fictional "better place" to come after death. Very sad.

Why not concentrate on enjoying the life you have rather than treating it as an appetiser for a main event that likely doesn't exist?

PS RedEyes was calling the OP a troll, not you.

originally posted by: Antigod

originally posted by: ElohimJD

originally posted by: Rob48

How is it a "scam"? Who gains from this great scam? Religion is a scam, because it seeks to gain followers and relieve those followers of their money. Science simply tries to explain things. It doesn't want your cash; it doesn't want you to build temples and worship idols and donate to the cause.

Who gains from this great scam?
- Scientists, Government, Individuals beings (physical or spiritual) who do not want others to worship the God of the Bible.

Evolution seeks to gain followers and relieve those followers of the potential to establish a true and growing relationship with Almighty God, by choosing to believe "what seems right to me" (traditions of men), in rebellion to the truth given by God (commandments of God).

Science simply tries to explain things... only using physical observations, devices, measurements, calculations; if something true exists outside of the physical state/realm, science omits that explanation; because it cannot be recreated in a physical lab.

It doesn't want your cash/donations?
- NSF!

It doesn't want you to build places of worship dedicated to it?
- Universities

BTW, God commands no idol ever to be placed before (above) God and his Word, for any religion to do so is to act in sin, however Science does place their evolutionary theory, which is an idol (object of focus; created in the minds of men) before God and his Word spiritually.

God Bless,

Thus rants someone who doesn't know a thing about science.

We study facts. Science is facts, and logical interpretations of facts. It's not science's fault the facts are contradicting your religion. Your religion was made up by bronze age priests, science is the study of what actually is. Scientists study facts (AKA science) because they want to understand how the universe functions, and how to make life better. They really don't give a crap about religion except when religious people start screaming blue murder because the observed facts contradict something some bronze age peasant made up.

So basically it's facts you can observe, vs religion.

yeah, scientists discover what was already there.

created by God.
"let there be light"

our solar system is less than a blink of an eye old in the cosmic time scale.
humans probably don't even register as a fleeting thought, scientifically on that scale.

yet some numbnut less than 60 yo thinks he has it all figured out? seriously?
or you could say, a 300 year old movement, still don't make a difference.

can't even make a living cell, even with all the supporting environments. sheesh!

but lightning can strike a pond and start life and here we are. really? prove it, it's science. piece of cake, right?

can chaos really organize itself?
is that logical? doesn't it go the other way?

and e-coli, did it change into a bunny rabbit? a fish? an omeba? no, it's still an e-coli.

jokers.

"time of the gaps" just insert plenty of time when you have no answers, instead of God.

so evolution means 1 baby something has something different out of a whole species and takes over he whole species?

then after the whole species is taken over (how that works, i don't know) then they start again until here we are?

evolutionists say that one animal changes into another, do they do that all together or are there both used to be's and new ones living at the same time?

i just don't see any hard evidence for evolution, the way the neo-darwinists claim.
i guess most christians would fall more to intelligent design rather than creationism.

this might have been posted before.

originally posted by: Rob48

If you seriously feel you have to invoke a fictional creator to give life wonder, beauty and magnificence then I feel very sorry for you. Those qualities are all around us in the here and now, but the religious mind ignores them in favour of some fictional "better place" to come after death. Very sad.

Why not concentrate on enjoying the life you have rather than treating it as an appetiser for a main event that likely doesn't exist?

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Yes but that's the thing isn't it, how can you believe that all this wonder, beauty, magnificence comes about through your process of evolution? The religious mind does not ignore them, on the contrary it is their reason to believe in a creator. My question to you is how can you believe it all simply happens without any creative input? Or are you only half an evolutionist?

I don't have to concentrate on enjoying life which I take it is what you have to do. We creationists have our cake and eat it too, didn't you know?

edit on 29-5-2014 by Shema because: (no reason given)

edit on 29-5-2014 by Shema because: error

originally posted by: tsingtao
yeah, scientists discover what was already there.

created by God.
"let there be light"

our solar system is less than a blink of an eye old in the cosmic time scale.
humans probably don't even register as a fleeting thought, scientifically on that scale.

You're still talking about origins of life and the universe. Evolution, as a science, isn't about the origins of life or the universe. It's about how they change over time. That's all. If you want to discuss the Origin of Life, you won't find the answers for it within Evolutionary Theory.

yet some numbnut less than 60 yo thinks he has it all figured out? seriously?
or you could say, a 300 year old movement, still don't make a difference.

Yet you have no problem putting your trust in some other numbnuts who thought they figured it all out over 2000 years ago??? How does that make sense???

can't even make a living cell, even with all the supporting environments. sheesh!

but lightning can strike a pond and start life and here we are. really? prove it, it's science. piece of cake, right?

Again talking about origins.

can chaos really organize itself?
is that logical? doesn't it go the other way?

Actually it can in some cases. Check out more on chaos theory. Chaos may only be chaos until you view it a certain way, then the patterns start to appear. Like weather or other natural systems. Sometimes it just takes time and a different perspective before the patterns are found, making it seem like chaos.

and e-coli, did it change into a bunny rabbit? a fish? an omeba? no, it's still an e-coli.

jokers.

"time of the gaps" just insert plenty of time when you have no answers, instead of God.

Inserting "God" into the gaps as we know makes for a lousy and incorrect answer too. Proven countless times in history.

so evolution means 1 baby something has something different out of a whole species and takes over he whole species?

then after the whole species is taken over (how that works, i don't know) then they start again until here we are?

evolutionists say that one animal changes into another, do they do that all together or are there both used to be's and new ones living at the same time?

Really?? Is that what "Evolutionists" say??? Maybe that is because the term "evolutionist" is commonly used as an anti-science label by proponents of creationism and intelligent design. That could be the reason you attribute such statements to the actual Theory of Evolution in the first place, which would be incorrect.

i just don't see any hard evidence for evolution, the way the neo-darwinists claim.
i guess most christians would fall more to intelligent design rather than creationism.

this might have been posted before.

Maybe you should try getting some information from real evolutionary scientists then instead of "Neo-Darwinists", whatever the hell they are?!?!?

Really?? Is that what "Evolutionists" say???

a reply to: mOjOm


Creationists don't grasp that the correct term for someone who has observed the facts (not opinions) don't support creationism is actually 'scientist'.

originally posted by: manna2

originally posted by: Antigod

originally posted by: ElohimJD

originally posted by: Rob48

How is it a "scam"? Who gains from this great scam? Religion is a scam, because it seeks to gain followers and relieve those followers of their money. Science simply tries to explain things. It doesn't want your cash; it doesn't want you to build temples and worship idols and donate to the cause.

Who gains from this great scam?
- Scientists, Government, Individuals beings (physical or spiritual) who do not want others to worship the God of the Bible.

Evolution seeks to gain followers and relieve those followers of the potential to establish a true and growing relationship with Almighty God, by choosing to believe "what seems right to me" (traditions of men), in rebellion to the truth given by God (commandments of God).

Science simply tries to explain things... only using physical observations, devices, measurements, calculations; if something true exists outside of the physical state/realm, science omits that explanation; because it cannot be recreated in a physical lab.

It doesn't want your cash/donations?
- NSF!

It doesn't want you to build places of worship dedicated to it?
- Universities

BTW, God commands no idol ever to be placed before (above) God and his Word, for any religion to do so is to act in sin, however Science does place their evolutionary theory, which is an idol (object of focus; created in the minds of men) before God and his Word spiritually.

God Bless,

Thus rants someone who doesn't know a thing about science.

We study facts. Science is facts, and logical interpretations of facts. It's not science's fault the facts are contradicting your religion. Your religion was made up by bronze age priests, science is the study of what actually is. Scientists study facts (AKA science) because they want to understand how the universe functions, and how to make life better. They really don't give a crap about religion except when religious people start screaming blue murder because the observed facts contradict something some bronze age peasant made up.

So basically it's facts you can observe, vs religion.

nice. Thats cool man. You clearly have the most faith of any poster here. . No religious defender of their personal dogma has shown near as much faith as you in your own dogma. You are a true believer in omniscient beings eh? Scientists are holy, holy, holy to you? Are they your source for moral character then, as well?

I'm a scientist. A physical Anthropologist.

I have no faith, if I have personally observed data/facts that directly contradicts the concept of creationism.

And there's the main problem, religious people just don't grasp that science is FACT, which is repeatedly measured, observed again and again by each new generation of scientist. Zero faith involved. It's why any dissent from evolution runs about .003% in polls of relevant phd's. Basically you can't be exposed to so much FACT (particularly stuff you've seen first hand) that contradicts a religious belief which has NO FACTS supporting it and still believe in the belief.

Science is the opposite of dogma, dogma requires unquestioning acceptance, science requires that every student observes and checks outcome and data personally. It's basically what science is. The opposite of dogma. Religious people just call it an opinion/belief/dogma because they don't grasp this, or want to reduce it to a belief which would put it on an even footing with their own belief. Well, evolution isn't a belief, it's an observation of a observed and well studied FACT, documented by DNA and the fossil record, some of which I've had the pleasure of participating in personally.

Get over it.

originally posted by: tsingtao

i just don't see any hard evidence for evolution, the way the neo-darwinists claim.

Do you see any hard evidence for the fairy tale of a Creator? Oh I forgot, evidence isn't needed when it comes to religion, because religion gets a special pass all on its own because JESUS, right?

originally posted by: Antigod

originally posted by: manna2

originally posted by: Antigod

originally posted by: ElohimJD

originally posted by: Rob48

How is it a "scam"? Who gains from this great scam? Religion is a scam, because it seeks to gain followers and relieve those followers of their money. Science simply tries to explain things. It doesn't want your cash; it doesn't want you to build temples and worship idols and donate to the cause.

Who gains from this great scam?
- Scientists, Government, Individuals beings (physical or spiritual) who do not want others to worship the God of the Bible.

Evolution seeks to gain followers and relieve those followers of the potential to establish a true and growing relationship with Almighty God, by choosing to believe "what seems right to me" (traditions of men), in rebellion to the truth given by God (commandments of God).

Science simply tries to explain things... only using physical observations, devices, measurements, calculations; if something true exists outside of the physical state/realm, science omits that explanation; because it cannot be recreated in a physical lab.

It doesn't want your cash/donations?
- NSF!

It doesn't want you to build places of worship dedicated to it?
- Universities

BTW, God commands no idol ever to be placed before (above) God and his Word, for any religion to do so is to act in sin, however Science does place their evolutionary theory, which is an idol (object of focus; created in the minds of men) before God and his Word spiritually.

God Bless,

Thus rants someone who doesn't know a thing about science.

We study facts. Science is facts, and logical interpretations of facts. It's not science's fault the facts are contradicting your religion. Your religion was made up by bronze age priests, science is the study of what actually is. Scientists study facts (AKA science) because they want to understand how the universe functions, and how to make life better. They really don't give a crap about religion except when religious people start screaming blue murder because the observed facts contradict something some bronze age peasant made up.

So basically it's facts you can observe, vs religion.

nice. Thats cool man. You clearly have the most faith of any poster here. . No religious defender of their personal dogma has shown near as much faith as you in your own dogma. You are a true believer in omniscient beings eh? Scientists are holy, holy, holy to you? Are they your source for moral character then, as well?

I'm a scientist. A physical Anthropologist.

I have no faith, if I have personally observed data/facts that directly contradicts the concept of creationism.

And there's the main problem, religious people just don't grasp that science is FACT, which is repeatedly measured, observed again and again by each new generation of scientist. Zero faith involved. It's why any dissent from evolution runs about .003% in polls of relevant phd's. Basically you can't be exposed to so much FACT (particularly stuff you've seen first hand) that contradicts a religious belief which has NO FACTS supporting it and still believe in the belief.

Science is the opposite of dogma, dogma requires unquestioning acceptance, science requires that every student observes and checks outcome and data personally. It's basically what science is. The opposite of dogma. Religious people just call it an opinion/belief/dogma because they don't grasp this, or want to reduce it to a belief which would put it on an even footing with their own belief. Well, evolution isn't a belief, it's an observation of a observed and well studied FACT, documented by DNA and the fossil record, some of which I've had the pleasure of participating in personally.

Get over it.

Brilliantly said. I don't understand this persistent Creationist meme that 'science = a different form of faith'. It's untrue and proof that they don't understand what they're talking about.

The scary thing is, and here only to pick ONE example, that I can type "transitional fossils" into Google and spend the next year(s) reading about the 100s or 1000s *real existing* transitional fossils/species.

There is a good article about a fossil found showing undeniable evidence of a species transitioning from the water to land. Just ONE example, out of hundreds, if not thousands.

I do NOT post links since a 5 year old can do that research on their own. If you're too lazy and too ignorant to LOOK AT THE TRUTH, I can't help you.

When a creationists in all seriousness wants to tell us there don't exist transitional animals/fossils...and they also want to deny that men lived BEFORE 4500 years ago, basically denying any archaeological find, cave-men etc....for me this actually MORE than simply "sticking to a faith"...it's an outright lie.

Because if I deny an evident and obvious truth and state the opposite..it's a lie. Nothing more, nothing less.

And I will never, EVER trust a religious group which is knowingly spreading lies to foster an agenda.

a reply to: tsingtao

yeah, scientists discover what was already there.

YES, and religion pretends it doesn't exist.

yet some numbnut less than 60 yo thinks he has it all figured out? seriously? or you could say, a 300 year old movement, still don't make a difference. can't even make a living cell, even with all the supporting environments. sheesh!

And some peasant 4,000 years ago who thought disease was caused by demons understood how the universe works.


Basically you don't study this stuff do you? We are currently a hairs breadth from creating whole bacteria from scratch in a lab, an entire new bacteria was created from scratch genetically, and yeast was coaxed into evolving into a multi-cell clump over the course of weeks.

Not 'less than 60 years' have gone into this . Actually many thousands of lifetimes of research are involved, you have to multiply that one person by thousands of others also researching (self included). As opposed to a bronze age peasant making something up to explain thunder away (your religion).

I can tell you, having seen first hand the remains of ancient humans, and studying the DNA results from them, they are physically and genetically very different to modern people.

but lightning can strike a pond and start life and here we are. really? prove it, it's science. piece of cake, right?

The hilariously ignorant lack of understanding I've some to expect from Creationists.

NO THAT'S NOT HOW WE THINK LIFE STARTED. That's what creationists think we think.

Here's a link to latest research. I don't think it mentions lightning at all.
www.policymic.com...

so evolution means 1 baby something has something different out of a whole species and takes over he whole species?

No, it has very slightly different baby, and a tiny change each generation adds up to massive changes over millions of years. Mutation is an observed fact. Studies of ancient human DNA show we had quite a few genetic differences, so we have an actually comparison from tens of thousands of years ago to modern. Physically and genetically we aren't the same. Observed fact, not theory or opinion.

Like I said, we've observed speciation (where an small group of species (a) ends up as a new species (b). there's a totally new species of mosquito that lives in the London underground that didn't exist before.

There are plenty of transitional fossils that show this happening (the change from fish to amphibian is well recorded). In fact, you can find fish still which have lungs, and limbs for crawling.

Basically, you religious types can pretend that the facts don't support evolution only by genuine ignorance or by willfully lalalal-ing over scientists when they tell you what they've found.

Evolution is a FACT. Go study some biology personally and come back when you have a biology PHD and still say creationism is valid.

Heh...pass...

originally posted by: Antigod

Really?? Is that what "Evolutionists" say???

a reply to: mOjOm

Creationists don't grasp that the correct term for someone who has observed the facts (not opinions) don't support creationism is actually 'scientist'.

Why cant both be right; creationism and Darwinism and throw in some "self determinism' for good measure. I love this world that by some invisible veiled system at work creates 'polarities' within discussion points that are needless exercises of futility. Its either this or that black or white no room for gray consideration. Maybe the virulent arguments create a brand new space for another repass to create itself on its own; that is another better fresher idea POPS onto the horizon slips in, and you are totally unaware of it as are so steeped/mired in being 'correct' you completely missed its birthday.

a reply to: vethumanbeing

I don't see why creationism can't accept evolution..here me out..

If God is all knowing and knows everything and what is to come blah blah you get the picture.
Why couldn't he have just come up with the laws of physics created the big bang and either just let it ride knowing what is to come.

God created it, god came up with evolution as a tool to get us where we are today .
I have had an ale .

originally posted by: boymonkey74
a reply to: vethumanbeing

I don't see why creationism can't accept evolution..here me out..

If God is all knowing and knows everything and what is to come blah blah you get the picture.
Why couldn't he have just come up with the laws of physics created the big bang and either just let it ride knowing what is to come.
God created it, god came up with evolution as a tool to get us where we are today

.
I have had an ale

.

Me either; apparently neither one is right. I agree, I lay all the blame on "our creator" leaving us as latch-key humans wondering when It will come home and pay the household bills (for once). Actually, because God is just an energyform and thought the universe into existence (including us) its attitude is probably this "What; me worry" your lucky I bothered. A good lawyer representing the human would answer; even a dog having just whelped a litter of pups does not abandon them to the elements. Why didn't god give us the blueprint to his "Theory of Everything (this is what its all about)" chapters including physics, the pragmatic problems (corruption) inherent of organized religions, origin of the species? because It has a sense of humor. Ale? Il have a beer with a whiskey shot with you. Here is what I find interesting; if Scientists understood god is just a field of information organizing itself (1s and 0s binary) theyd be better able to grok/grasp the concept.

Life evolved from single cells to something more complex. Thats certainly evolution. However I think we can all concede that not all change can be called evoltution. Maybe some of it was due to other stimuli, like radiation affecting genes.

Darwin's observations in the Galápagos Islands hold major cards in some the theory and mechanism of natural selection. They stand as proof that life adapts to it's surroundings and species mutations allow the success of those that adapt to take advantages of what an environment offers. (However, there was no 'plan' to do so.)

It does not prove anything about the origin of life, which is probably in the same vein, as panspermia is the most likely origin of life on earth, and whatever fell on this planet went through the same process, but on a much larger scale.

originally posted by: charlyv
Darwin's observations in the Galápagos Islands hold major cards in some the theory and mechanism of natural selection. They stand as proof that life adapts to it's surroundings and species mutations allow the success of those that adapt to take advantages of what an environment offers. (However, there was no 'plan' to do so.)
It does not prove anything about the origin of life, which is probably in the same vein, as panspermia is the most likely origin of life on earth, and whatever fell on this planet went through the same process, but on a much larger scale.

Isolated much like Madagascar or Australia (before it became a prison holding tank continent for British convict exiles). This doesn't explain Africa and the unbelievable diversity of specie both predator and preyed upon existing there and finding balance. What if the Earth is the only planet of the nature to hold an experiment that contains/ supposes this: One planet that itself is alive; existing in the 3rd Dimension (we cant find another like this within the solar system and there are none other existing within this galaxy) that is a laboratory petri dish for experimentation; ripe and CONTAINED as in cannot energy wise contaminate the higher dimensions; as they are too high in frequency vibration. Everything goes here, eco systems perfectly balanced are programed to correct themselves (dinosaurs ate themselves out of existence exhausting the flora etc) dynamically perfectly balanced to FAIL or succeed. No plan? not so, this was the grand experiment to see what would happen once the human was introduced to the ecosystem. This place is a living library as all specie in the higher dimensions contributed a life form or forms to this place to see how they would/could progress in this heavy physical environment. How are we doing so far?