Could this be the beginning of the end for Europe?

originally posted by: ColCurious
a reply to: Korg Trinity

I know very well about our economic strenght and the true underlying reasons for it.

My comment relates to your accusation that "Germany likes the Euro...", which is not true.
Many Germans actually oppose the €uro and would love to return to the D-Mark, because for the German PEOPLE everything pretty much doubled in price since we lost our own currency.

I guess you forgot that there is a difference between the PEOPLE of a country and their Government?
What would you say if we blamed you personally for the crimes your GCHQ comitted as accomplices with the NSA?
Your accusation that Germans want to to control Europe and thus your precious Island is just ridiculous.

Look at you, beating your chest as a proud Brit!... but GERMAN nationalism is wrong of course.

Laughable.

This is not about whether the people like the euro or not... It's about the overall economy... you need to really learn and read more about what is going on...

Though as I can see here it looks like your government is taking it's people to the cleaners!!!

Korg.

a reply to: TrueBrit

Thank you again for another well written post.

I agree that racist remarks have no place in any serious party, and I was not aware that UKIP had not explicitly rejected and distanced themselves from racist rhetorik (a link with an example would be greatly appreciated).
It's a shame, really. I always enjoyed Nigel Farage's speeches in the so-called euopean parliament.

I am very disappointed myself that there is no moderate conservative option to vote against the EU-centralists and their policies right now. (I hope this doesn't make me a "right wing nutter")
It is also their fault that so many people in Europe voted far-right this election... what you said is true: the people feel disenfranchised.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: ColCurious

The trouble is however, that precisely because the media machine has churned away all the evidence of the smaller voices, only the loudest, and by far the most dangerous and sociopathic voices are being heard on the issues, and those include the voices of UKIP and the BNP. The BNP particularly ARE a party founded on, and by, racists. They are not a merely Eurosceptic party, but a party whose AGMs have been chock full of racist rants, which, no matter who brings it to the attention of the population, renders them utterly unfit to lead a sack race, let alone a nation comprising of a percentage of the human one.

UKIP are by far the most moderate of the two, but that is like comparing a person who will shoot you dead for a pound coin, with one who would require several tens of thousands to do the job. Neither is one with whom you would offer to share a cab home. The main difference between these parties, is that Nigel Farage, the party leader, has more charisma, and as an organisation, UKIP does an awful lot better of a job, at appearing like a legitimate party. This is despite having had various members get caught out in unguarded moments saying terrible things about all and sundry.

Sorry but you cannot compare the BNP to UKIP.

They are as different as Chalk and Cheese!

The BNP are indeed a fascist party that is absolutely racist.

UKIP has nothing to do with Race or religion or any other kind of prejudice.... UKIP is about the everyday people of Britain, it is about what's good for the country... it's about preventing our tax paid services buckling under the pressure of uncontrolled migration. It is about giving power back to the people to vote for a government that actually governs the country not only in part.

Where exactly is the racism in that???

Korg.

originally posted by: ColCurious
a reply to: Korg Trinity


Look at you, beating your chest as a proud Brit!... but GERMAN nationalism is wrong of course.

Laughable.

The difference is We are not telling you or your government how it should be or how your people should live your lives.... Germany (EU) however is attempting to overthrow the British Economy and erode our Sovereignty.

My Advice... Germany should look at the history books to see what kind of response that brings out in the British People!

Korg.

originally posted by: Korg Trinity
This is not about whether the people like the euro or not... It's about the overall economy... you need to really learn and read more about what is going on...

No, you need to work on your manners.
You know nothing about me, what I read, or my knowledge about the "overall economy".

You're welcome to read through my posts on ATS about the EU or Germany, but what do I know... I'm ze evil German nationalist, coming for your Island...

Col and Korg...?

You guys need your heads banging together or what?

Stop bitching with each other and have a little tolerance...

One of the reasons that other countries stereotypically like to have a bang at Europe is because of the way you two are having a bang at each other...

Kindest respects

Rodius

originally posted by: ColCurious

originally posted by: Korg Trinity
This is not about whether the people like the euro or not... It's about the overall economy... you need to really learn and read more about what is going on...

No, you need to work on your manners.
You know nothing about me, what I read, or my knowledge about the "overall economy".

You're welcome to read through my posts on ATS about the EU or Germany, but what do I know... I'm ze evil German nationalist, coming for your Island...

I couldn't care less who you are or what background you are from, I judge based upon the conversation we are having and from what I can tell you are totally blinkered to what's really going on.

Let me give you an example of how the British economy is being eroded by the EU.... this is just one instance of a long long list...

Chi ld benefit worth £30million paid by Britain to families across the EU but Cameron admits it is 'impossible' to stop it

UK taxpayer funds payments to 20,400 families with 34,268 children

Almost two-thirds sent to Poland, followed by Ireland, Lithuania and Latvia

David Cameron says no-one he has met thinks the benefits are 'sensible'

But Prime Minister warns that under existing EU rules it cannot be blocked

Money for Nothing and your Chicks for Free????

I could sprout many many examples of how our economy is being dragged down by the EU....

And this from your Government...

Germany tells Cameron he WON'T be able to renegotiate Britain's EU relationship

A LEADING German politician has warned David Cameron he will be unable to renegotiate Britain's relationship with the European Union and accused the Prime Minister of a "desperate attempt to appease Ukip" in pledging to do so.

Just Who the Feck do these people think they are???

We the People of Britain decide on whether we RENEGE or fecking leave the EU or not... not some German Power Crazed Politician!

Korg.

a reply to: Korg Trinity

Perhaps the racism is there in the same way as there is clearly a dislike of the poor and downtrodden on the part of the Tory party? There are racists in UKIP, and plenty of them. The party has buried within its members, thoroughly dark conceptions of the future of Britain, a Britain with less tolerance, and is a party which will open the way for all manner of sickness and ethical failure.

They are a party who are so polar opposite to the EU idea, that they end up right back at segregationist, and that is not an answer to anyones problems.

a reply to: TrueBrit

What I want to know is how I can give you quite a large number of flags for that post. You could have been reading my mind though I couldn't put it so eloquently. I think the labour party aught to have a very serious overhaul from the top to the bottom. First they have got to get rid of Ed Milliband. He may be clever and well informed but he has literally no charisma and no sense of fighting back for the ordinary man in the street. All the lost opportunities he has had to show the people the wrongness what, in the last 3 years, the present government was ripping up their own manifesto and decimating the country. As for the conservatives and the lib dems changing their parties policies, a snowball in hell comes to mind.

a reply to: ColCurious

Here is an example of the sort of people that UKIP has had as members...

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk...

Here is a classic example of a person so outright full of fail, that he conflates an entire demographic, with the actions of a small section of that demographic, several times in one e-mail apparently.

Again, I know that the media machine has its very dodgy ends and means of its own, but having people with this mindset any where near the power in my country makes me come out in a cold sweat, and start sharpening my "light agricultural equipment" more often.

And as for you... you are not a right wing nutter, and neither are most of the people who will be voting UKIP in time to come. The problem is, as we see too often by far, what people THINK a party is about is not the same as what a party ARE about in this day and age, and I see far too many examples of what UKIP is really about, to trust them enough to vote for them, or even to entertain the idea of my nation being lead by them.

People feeling disenfranchised is what always leads to the most division, both socially within a nation, and geo-politically speaking as well. The marker of a good government, is that no one in it ever has a legitimate reason to feel that way, and as it happens, this country has not had a properly good government for a long time by most estimations. My personal view is that until this nation is run by the people, not by the representatives of the people, we will be forced to confront this sort of nonsense again and again.

Far right by whose standards and from what decade?

a reply to: crayzeed

In all honesty, I think the collapse of the Labour Parties ability to actually claim any connection with working class persons (who, as we all know, are the people who REALLY keep the economy going), is largely to blame for the parlous state of things. The removal of a genuine working persons party from the Westminster Jenga tower, has seriously destabilised the country. I think it may be some time before the full effect of that becomes clear, but at the moment it has driven Labour voters into either obscurity, or for those who really have not been paying attention, the arms of UKIP.

If the Labour party still had some working class people in it, people who remember what it is like to scrimp and save in order to eat, or better yet, people who hold down a proper job (like street sweeping, plumbing, something requiring strong hands and a solid backbone, rather than paper jugglers of various types), while also being politicians, then they would once again be worth voting for.

However, there really has not been a genuine Labour party for as many as twenty years, and it seems that it has taken many people roughly twenty years to figure that out!

The situation is about as mental as it could be, without London becoming Kiev Mk:II

a reply to: Rodinus

You still don't get it. Me, you, all the ordinary men in the street have no control over what value you money is. Let me put it this way . There will never be a one world currency just as there will never be a one world government. Let me tell you what really causes your monetary problems. For a start the laid back, easy lifestyle way of life is integral to the amount of spare money you have to spend so it's all integral. That is the part that is controlled to control the mass of people. Now the greater part of the equation is controlled by the money people ie. banks and traders. They are the one who do not want a one world currency and would seriously love the world to splinter into their respective currencies. The amount of money that they steal (I use the word steal because they produce absolutely no product) by buying Yen, selling Yen buying Dollars, selling Dollars buying Euros (get the idea) runs into billions(add what currency you want) a day . That is what governs the value of your currency therefore your spending power.

a reply to: TrueBrit

Yes, but Labour's been lost in a haze of latte-inspired drivel for years. You'd have to go back to Kinnock's days for a working-class connection.

a reply to: Korg Trinity

I don't know what you want from me.
You won't hear me defending the EU, or our pro-EU politicians, nor will you ever find a single post or statement of me in favour of the EU - quite the opposite.

The topic in the article you linked was reported very differently here... funny it mentions Gunther Kirchbaum though. When Cameron demanded to renegotiate the UK's contracts with the EU, it was Kirchbaum who asked Cameron to give you Brits a referendum on the UK's EU-membership NOW... which is more than we ever got!

originally posted by: crayzeed
a reply to: Rodinus

You still don't get it.

Sorry for being ignorant here... I don't get what?

Kindest respects

Rodinus

a reply to: TrueBrit

I watched Farage on Newsnight with Paxman and he brought up some very good interesting points about the attacks from the media and the other parties...like he said they have not got the means to vet every person who wants to join UKIP...When they find a racist they get them out.

I voted for them in the EU elections just because Farage does stick up for us.(plus no other party want to change anything).
Oh here is the interview.

a reply to: boymonkey74

He sounds very much like Marine Le Pen over here in France.

Now... the thing is, will they put their promises into action and really stick up for the "people"?

Kindest respects

Rodinus

a reply to: Rodinus

I have watched Farage at the EU parliament and I like that he gives them what for...an example here.



I will not vote for them in the general election but isn't it best to have euro sceptics in the EU parliament?

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: Korg Trinity

Perhaps the racism is there in the same way as there is clearly a dislike of the poor and downtrodden on the part of the Tory party? There are racists in UKIP, and plenty of them. The party has buried within its members, thoroughly dark conceptions of the future of Britain, a Britain with less tolerance, and is a party which will open the way for all manner of sickness and ethical failure.

They are a party who are so polar opposite to the EU idea, that they end up right back at segregationist, and that is not an answer to anyones problems.

Let's make no bones about it, Nigel has said on so many occasions that the party does not stand of Racism and anyone whom exhibits racist views cannot be part of the party.

It has nothing to do with race... it has everything to do with protecting Britain from an uncontrolled influx of poor unskilled migrants from the EU!

Here it is straight from the horses mouth as it were..



Korg.