MCdonald's...? Walmart....? When did they start forcing people to...

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: theyknowwhoyouare

What you believe, and what your narrow experience has been, are not relevant to the facts which affect the entire employment market as a whole.

Also, someone who can afford to move from one state to another, or even from one town to another, is probably earning quite enough thank you. People who have no work, cannot afford moving vans, deposits on mortgages on new dwellings, or deposits on rent.

Your expectations are ridiculous therefore.

The reality is, that if there is not sufficient work in a town, city, or state, to employ everyone who would like to work and earn, then a) it is not POSSIBLE for the worst affected to improve their circumstances, unless they are very fortunate indeed, and b) it is not for any one person, or any minority of people who ARE able to improve their circumstances, to bitch and whine about the rest. If you pulled your head from without the space betwixt your buttocks for a moment, you might realise that far from getting ahead by sweat alone (which has not been possible in the developed world since well before the 1930s), you are getting on with it because you have been lucky.

That's right. For all the sweat which beads your brow, and all the tension headaches you get from just barely balancing your accounts every once in a while, the only thing that defines you apart from anyone else who has not had it easy, is luck. You have had some of late, and others have not.

Please do not think for a moment that because your outcomes have been better than your peers, that you stand above them. You do not. You are not in a position to dispense judgement upon them, and NO one is in a position to support an employers right to offer anything less than a living wage, because that position is utterly indefensible.

What you might also want to remember, is that the currency in the US, the dollar, is created by drawing cheques on an account which has no funds in it, is based solely on debt. So, remember, in getting the better job, and "earning" more "money" (read : lies) you are actually a bigger part of the problem in your country, and indeed the developed world, than all the shop floor level Walmart employees in the USA. It's not the people living hand over fist on bugger all, who are allowing the vast fraud which is the dollar to continue. Hell, if it was just those guys, the entire thing would collapse eventually, and despite the horror one might be filled at the idea, that would be better than continuing the virtual slavery that exists in the US as a result of the continuing saga of the banks and the government robbing your citizens blind.

I worked 63 hrs a week at 7/hr to do so and didn't spend my money on things I didn't need. My brother has been working at that same place for five years. Hasn't done anything to change his situation because he would rather spend his money on weed.

It's all about choice and desire.

a reply to: theyknowwhoyouare

Unlike most replies I agree with what you have to say. I wouldn't go as far as calling someone lazy but your message is fair. If people don't like it then change things.

If someone accepts a job at "x" amount of dollars they should do the work. Nobody forced them to take the job if they can find a better job then knock yourself out.

originally posted by: theyknowwhoyouare

I was homeless for 6 months when I was 20. I got out of that situation, those that are still there to this day don't do anything to change that.

Such an arrogant assumption! How could one possibly know that everyone who is homeless chooses to be?!

Hasn't done anything to change his situation because he would rather spend his money on weed.

Perhaps this topic should have addressed the poor decisions your brother has made instead of sweeping grandiose statements about workers as a whole.

It's all about choice and desire.

and opportunity.


J

a reply to: TrueBrit

Well stated.

Now ... for me (as a personal favor, Please) ... rotate your perspective 180 degrees and tell me your viewpoint from that angle.

a reply to: theyknowwhoyouare

That is you and your brother.

As a sample of a population, that is utterly useless information, which is derived from your personal narrative, not from a broad understanding of the socioeconomic situation in your nation, or indeed the rest of the world.

Again, no one person can make a generalisation about an entire demographic of workers, without basically starting their argument based on a flawed premise, that being, that any one person has seen enough of a country like the USA, worked in enough states, seen enough hardship, walked in enough shoes to know one TENTH of what they would need to know, in order to make a judgement on their fellow man, without using specifics.

Why can't you be honest, and say that individuals you have met who have been down on their luck, have also made poor choices, rather than suggesting that making poor choices is the only thing which divides success and failure? It might surprise you to know, that there are people in your nation who work hard, earn next to nothing, and are trying to support both elderly relatives, and young children, and are doing so without the aid of hard drugs. It is none the less the case.

Between the still too high cost of medical care and coverage, and the fact that child care costs are vast and ridiculous , one could have a half decent job and still not be able to actually get along. What you have to remember is that there is a difference between mere survival, and actually being allowed by circumstances beyond ones control, to actually have a life.

If you want your country to be full of people who survive, but do not live, who have brain function, but have ceased to think, who have eyes, but are too tired to see with them, then keep your narrow minded rhetoric up. If however, you want to live in a country where people are vibrant, and live harmoniously, who think and vilify all attempts to make them stop, and who never miss the next big scam from the government, because not only are their eyes open, but they can see the writing on the wall, then please, consider that there are positions from which to view these issues, which are no less valid than yours, but simply different than yours, and that the mistakes that you see being made by some working poor, are not made by all, not nearly.

a reply to: theyknowwhoyouare
Back when a person could just decide to not work for a company, now there just aren't that many out there.
Back when we had unions before all of the rabid "union busting", I'll bet many Americans wish they still had strong unions.
Problem is, if US citizens don't work for the slave wage, corporations hire illegal aliens to do the job.
I haven't worked minimum wage since I was 16, I knew to get a trade skill.
There are many problems in this whole debacle, Lack of unions, illegal aliens, business owners rights, corporations are people (WTF??? a corporation is a person and has rights?).

a reply to: Snarl

Snarl, do you mean that you want me to imagine being a poor, hardworking guy, who through no fault of his own had life happen to him and set him back, but am currently on a path that I consider healthy, and potentially productive, while everything seems to be going to crap around me?

Because, that is pretty much my position normally speaking. The difference between myself and the OP is, that although I have a healthy ego, I am more than aware that the only reason I am not living on the street, is because I made a friend in a bar many years ago, who found out where I was living at the time, and told me after knowing me less than forty hours "Dude... You are coming to live on the floor of my crappy room at the back of this bar".

I am where I am today, not just because of my hard work (although there has been well enough of that) but also because of the kindness and empathy of my fellow human beings, the strength of the people I work with and around, and because I know that I am loved and supported. People in the world lack these things, and I think that causes just as much trouble as any of the other things I mentioned during this discussion. I know there are people who fit the stereotypes which people place upon the poor to stigmatise them, but even if I got stinking rich, I would never allow myself to join in.

I guess I just have a problem with attacking a social group at all, let alone one so utterly incapable of defending itself.

a reply to: theyknowwhoyouare

I can boil it down to one major thing. People don't want to move from their comfort zone. You hear all sorts of excuses. "I have family and friends here!" or "I can't afford to move!" or my personal favorite, "But I won't know anybody if I move!"

Life is tough folks. Stay ahead of the ball or be run over by it. And if you are run over by it...it's not societies fault, but your own.

a reply to: buster2010
Yes the world does need ditch diggers. UNION ditch diggers in my humble opinion. And moving is not free. Temporarily re locating for a job pays though.

The rest of my rant isn't toward you buster but... this country has been brainwashed to hate unions. An honest days pay for an honest days work. decent pay plus benefits.

I'm talking skilled trades, building trades. Is 50k a year outrageous nowadays? Am I rich? hell no.
I might say more on this but I get up at 3:15 am and home around 7 pm.

a reply to: TrueBrit

Just a question for ya True.

If the business went belly up and you knew of another job elsewhere, would you move?

I see a lot of people in my city where they won't move to where they're needed and then gripe about it. It's survival man.

a reply to: TrueBrit

Like the OP, I've been at both ends of the spectrum. I've started from the bottom three times in fact. I see where he is hiccuping in making his point with folks who haven't worn his shoes (or mine FTM).

I thought about making this thread myself a couple of times since signing up, but then asked myself, "What would be the point?"

You're one of the bright lights here. I figured I'd ask my question of you (since you showed up) and see if you could articulate a perspective you have yet to experience. I'm not going to live that long, but I'd love to hear what you have to say in 30 years.

originally posted by: theyknowwhoyouare

originally posted by: buster2010

originally posted by: theyknowwhoyouare
...Work for them?


I see a lot of people whining about the wages places like Mcdonald's and Walmart pay. I didn't realize these whiny people were being forced to work for these companies. What are they blackmailing them? Are they threatening to murder their families or something?


Okay so seriously, if you don't like what a company offers as far as salary and benefits, why not just find another job? It sickens me that people take a job they know without a doubt pays in pennies, then whine because they are only earning pennies. It's called entitlement. Go find a real career if you want to go make more money. You knew how much money that company paid from the start. Mcdonalds is cheap for a reason. Partially bc they serve garbage pretend food, and partially they pay their employee's garbage.


So why is this an issue? I personally don't understand how some people think...

You obviously have never lived in a small town. When you have companies like Walmart move in and kill off all the small businesses then there is no place left to work. Also unless moving suddenly became free people can't afford to just pack up and move to a new town. Believe it or not there isn't enough good paying jobs to go around there is truth in the saying the world needs ditch diggers too. These companies make hundreds of millions and in Walmarts case billions in profits it wouldn't hurt them to pay their employees a decent wage. And it's because they don't pay them a decent wage it is costing the taxpayers billions in subsidies for their employees.

Actually I am from Bradford county PA. Doesn't get any smaller than that.

You know what I did? I moved!

Change sucks... Having to suffer through hard times while making those changes sucks.... Having to leave friends and family behind to get where you want to be in life sucks... But if that's what it takes then so be it. If you don't lie your situation then change it.

So you were able to afford to move not everyone has that luxury.

originally posted by: buster2010

originally posted by: theyknowwhoyouare

originally posted by: buster2010

originally posted by: theyknowwhoyouare
...Work for them?


I see a lot of people whining about the wages places like Mcdonald's and Walmart pay. I didn't realize these whiny people were being forced to work for these companies. What are they blackmailing them? Are they threatening to murder their families or something?


Okay so seriously, if you don't like what a company offers as far as salary and benefits, why not just find another job? It sickens me that people take a job they know without a doubt pays in pennies, then whine because they are only earning pennies. It's called entitlement. Go find a real career if you want to go make more money. You knew how much money that company paid from the start. Mcdonalds is cheap for a reason. Partially bc they serve garbage pretend food, and partially they pay their employee's garbage.


So why is this an issue? I personally don't understand how some people think...

You obviously have never lived in a small town. When you have companies like Walmart move in and kill off all the small businesses then there is no place left to work. Also unless moving suddenly became free people can't afford to just pack up and move to a new town. Believe it or not there isn't enough good paying jobs to go around there is truth in the saying the world needs ditch diggers too. These companies make hundreds of millions and in Walmarts case billions in profits it wouldn't hurt them to pay their employees a decent wage. And it's because they don't pay them a decent wage it is costing the taxpayers billions in subsidies for their employees.

Actually I am from Bradford county PA. Doesn't get any smaller than that.

You know what I did? I moved!

Change sucks... Having to suffer through hard times while making those changes sucks.... Having to leave friends and family behind to get where you want to be in life sucks... But if that's what it takes then so be it. If you don't lie your situation then change it.

So you were able to afford to move not everyone has that luxury.

BS There may be an exception now and then, but nearly anyone can move if they set their mind to it. The truth is, you "can't" move by being lazy about it.

For a poor person on minimum wage, they can't afford to move. Some people end up in situations through no real fault of their own. I have had some tough years behind me, but I never for a minute regretted not moving away from family and friends. It is what held me together and gave me the courage to carry on. Being with the people who matter most in your life is quite different than a letter or phone call from far away.

I remember more than once when there were job postings for like 10 or 15 jobs and over 200 people applied. We have tent cities increasing all across the USA. Jobs are getting more scarce and I don't see it improving anytime soon. I feel bad for anyone in the work force these days or trying to be.

Unfortunately, smaller businesses these people might have worked for otherwise, have been closed due to competition from the corporate behemoths.

If they can't work in the closed businesses, they kind of have to work where they can. If Wal-Mart is the only place still hiring...OK, no gun to their heads but what's the other option? Starve?

Important distinction, not trying to derail:

Raising the minimum wage does not help those paid it. Corporations would simply treat it as a pass-through cost. Now products and services cost the difference. Those on minimum wage never catch up.

It only makes sense in bizzaro world where overhead increases but prices remain the same.

Don't like walmart? Don't shop there.
I don't, because I can't stand the white trash hillbillies working there.
Its called a toothbrush!
When walmart pays a "living wage" they will fire the deadweight and find better people.
And when the government forces huge pay increases they will eliminate food stamps right?
Living wages will eliminate the need for anybody with a job to receive any welfare. Snicker,,, haha yeah no

a reply to: Night Star

And there you go Night. People are raised differently. I grew up a military brat and moved constantly, so the nomad is in my blood. Most however are leery of moving away from friends and family.

My family is very close (for about four days together anyways ) and we do stay in contact weekly if not daily. We all understand that we all have our own lives now and that is the reason we do stay in contact. Same goes with my friends.

As a matter of fact, my best bud's wife is now in the hospital giving birth. That will change the way me and my bud will interact now that he and the Mrs. have a newborn on their hands. I know "That's life."

I'm actually saving to move for the exact opposite of my earlier post. I'm moving from where the jobs are, to help family, where there are few jobs. But I can afford it now after retiring as long as I plan accordingly. But after the folks pass away, I'll probably move back here to Ohio. But my sister is beyond exhausted and needs the help. Not monetarily, but physical help. So I gotta do what I gotta do. Ya know what I mean?

Just because that's the only job someone could find, many places aren't hiring and people dot have the skills. They're still entitled to a living wage and breaks.

a reply to: MiguelTheMagician



Would you consider social security a living wage?