America's Future Interceptor

Originally posted by COOL HAND

Hmm, might want to get that memory checked:

Check waynos's post.
Thanks waynos for that waynos , i thought i remembered it being in that area.

What are you talking about? If you are going to make these wild claims, at least post some evidence to support it.

Might remember that good old super sonic plane we gave you, remember the one you never got back to us about?

Maybe they were just checking them out? The US soldiers are responsible for the M-16s and I doubt they would let them out of their sight. Othewise they can be made to replace them.

Yeah what if situations huh, look its know that the AK is liked among almost all western countries if not all. So you are saying that EVERY soldier is issued an M16 and must look after it perfectly even if its SF or they are told to take AK's?

No **** sherlock. The US does a better job at securing and maintaining their runways. That is why they do not have to worry about using crappy runways. However, in the unlikely event that they would have to use one they would default to using the OA-10/A-10 or the Harrier. Both are designed to operate from runways in less than ideal condition.

A better job than who? Britain? Go ahead you where about to say it!
So your saying that US pilots ONLY fly US planes? And that american tech is all that US will fly in?

I am assuming that you are referring to the WMD claim that Zero made. Have you found conclusive proof of the lack of weapons? Last time I checked they were still searching for them. Have you already done this for them?

1. The weapon inspectors didnt find them up until they stopped letting them in.
2.The only "weapons" found was a ton of ore, which couldnt be used in weapons.
3. The silence of proof from the US military strengthens it unless ofcourse the US is doing a whole , "we dont know about any weapons" idea to lul the enemy into a false sense of security...i dont think so myself but hey its possible, not likely but possible.

Originally posted by devilwasp
Check waynos's post.
Thanks waynos for that waynos , i thought i remembered it being in that area.

Maybe the fact that they were convinced that the Typhoon could not meet its IOC on time and thus not be delivered on time had something to do with it?

Might remember that good old super sonic plane we gave you, remember the one you never got back to us about?

What are you talking about?

Yeah what if situations huh, look its know that the AK is liked among almost all western countries if not all. So you are saying that EVERY soldier is issued an M16 and must look after it perfectly even if its SF or they are told to take AK's?

Not every soldier is issued one, but those who are have the responsibility for the weapon that goes along with it.

A better job than who? Britain? Go ahead you where about to say it!
So your saying that US pilots ONLY fly US planes? And that american tech is all that US will fly in?

No I wasn't about to say it, do not put words into my mouth.
I never said that US pilots fly only US planes, you did. Ever hear of the Shorts Sherpa?

1. The weapon inspectors didnt find them up until they stopped letting them in.

Did it ever occur to you that he may have moved them before the invasion?

2.The only "weapons" found was a ton of ore, which couldnt be used in weapons.

That is complete crap. Show your sources.

3. The silence of proof from the US military strengthens it unless ofcourse the US is doing a whole , "we dont know about any weapons" idea to lul the enemy into a false sense of security...i dont think so myself but hey its possible, not likely but possible.

What silence from the military. Last time I checked they had not said anything definative.

Originally posted by COOL HAND

Maybe the fact that they were convinced that the Typhoon could not meet its IOC on time and thus not be delivered on time had something to do with it?

So why the message? Just to give them a little nudge?

What are you talking about?

first supersonic plane project we worked on, we gave you a look at our plane and you guys didnt let us look at yours.

Not every soldier is issued one, but those who are have the responsibility for the weapon that goes along with it.
[/qutoe]
Yeah , BUT that doesnt mean they dont want an AK or get issued one.

No I wasn't about to say it, do not put words into my mouth.
I never said that US pilots fly only US planes, you did. Ever hear of the Shorts Sherpa?

Sure sounded like it.
You implied it.
No i have not heard of any american AF pilots.

Did it ever occur to you that he may have moved them before the invasion?

This was after GW1....

That is complete crap. Show your sources.

OH yeah sorry i forgot to mention the one shell of chemical weapons fired in falluga by accident. I will get the thread ASAP for you cool hand.

What silence from the military. Last time I checked they had not said anything definative.

Yeah and they have nethier denied nor confirmed it , yet have not even hinted on being close to finding any or even had sniffs at finding them.

Originally posted by COOL HAND

Originally posted by devilwasp
Check waynos's post.
Thanks waynos for that waynos , i thought i remembered it being in that area.

Maybe the fact that they were convinced that the Typhoon could not meet its IOC on time and thus not be delivered on time had something to do with it?

They want the first aircraft by 2007-08, BAE can meet this thanks to the co-operation of the RAF but lets not split hairs, it doesn't change the fact that Bush saw the potential puchase of a fighter by Singapore from British Aerospace as going 'against' America, with all the paranoid menace that implies. Free trade?

Might remember that good old super sonic plane we gave you, remember the one you never got back to us about?

What are you talking about?

The Miles M.52/ Bell X.1 one way "co-operation" springs to my mind but that may not be the one he means


The rest of it is not my sphere so I'll keep out of it.

it was Venezuela that opted for MiG-29's over F-16's if u want to know

Originally posted by devilwasp
So why the message? Just to give them a little nudge?

What message? Where is the proof of this?

first supersonic plane project we worked on, we gave you a look at our plane and you guys didnt let us look at yours.

Again, proof? Are you sensing the pattern yet?

Yeah , BUT that doesnt mean they dont want an AK or get issued one.

The US military does not issue AKs to any of its "normal" forces.

I never said that US pilots fly only US planes, you did. Ever hear of the Shorts Sherpa?

Sure sounded like it.
You implied it.
No i have not heard of any american AF pilots.

No, I did not sound like it. I did not imply it.
The Shorts Sherpa is not a pilot, it is an aircraft. You may want to go look into that before you go any further with this.

Did it ever occur to you that he may have moved them before the invasion?

This was after GW1....

Yes, remember when he was messing with the inspectors while he moved stuff around?

OH yeah sorry i forgot to mention the one shell of chemical weapons fired in falluga by accident. I will get the thread ASAP for you cool hand.

Keep digging, you will find more info.

What silence from the military. Last time I checked they had not said anything definative.

Yeah and they have nethier denied nor confirmed it , yet have not even hinted on being close to finding any or even had sniffs at finding them.

Yet they are continuing to look at this very moment.

Can we get back to the topic now? I am getting sick and tired of every topic here that involves the US degenerating into a pissing contest.

well now u know how it feels, and US equipment isn't being degenerated, look at what people are saying about russian equipment, now thats degenerating and severely understating russian capabilities, while american capabilities are boosted way over the rainbow by almost everyone here, so stop whining and take it like a man, the russians on this forum have to

I see only ONE Russian making noise here, so what's your point? Or are you going to ignore my post once again?

what are you talking about, and i'd like to hear some productive things from u, stop criticizing everyoje else, and look at yourself, i have put up some good arguments, and contrary to many people's belief, i back down sometimes, like that BVR and off-boresight argument

Originally posted by waynos
They want the first aircraft by 2007-08, BAE can meet this thanks to the co-operation of the RAF but lets not split hairs, it doesn't change the fact that Bush saw the potential puchase of a fighter by Singapore from British Aerospace as going 'against' America, with all the paranoid menace that implies. Free trade?

Once again, where is the evidence for this? Surely you can find something to back up the statement.

The Miles M.52/ Bell X.1 one way "co-operation" springs to my mind but that may not be the one he means

God, not this again. Britain provided the design information to us and then we were the ones to marry a rocket engine to the improved design and that was what broke the sound barrier.

Since we paid Britain for the information, in what way were we accountable for sharing our information with you?


Here is a quote from your OWN post about it:

Naturally, Miles Aircraft were furious and vehemently disagreed but the deed was done. High level contact was then made with the US ( in order to revive the project with US backing) at which point it was discovered that Bell were already working on a supersonic programme of their own, exchange visits were quickly organised and the level to which both types were alike astonished both companies and convinced the already confident Bell team that they were on the right lines, taking as evidence the fact that an entirely separate design team working in the same area (an area that was completely unknown) was coming up with the same answers that they were.

Sure sounds like one way cooperation to me.


[edit on 8/12/04 by COOL HAND]

Originally posted by Dima
well now u know how it feels, and US equipment isn't being degenerated, look at what people are saying about russian equipment, now thats degenerating and severely understating russian capabilities, while american capabilities are boosted way over the rainbow by almost everyone here, so stop whining and take it like a man, the russians on this forum have to

Well, the easiest way to fix that is to fix the Russian equipment in the first place. Not to have something like the failure to launh a ballistic test missile with your own nation's president present to watch his equipment in "action."

Firstly the statement by Bush re Singapore; I only have this information in printed sources so I cannot post it here, except to quote it verbatim and you could easily think I was making it up (as I reckon you do anyway). I have been trying for the last, what hour or so? to find it on the net but I have been unsuccessful. To you this proves that it is false no doubt, I will have to accept that I know what I know from reliable sources but you will not accept anything you can't follow a link to, that is perfectly understandable so I wont go on about it, C'est la vie.

About the M.52, why the overreaction? You asked what he was on about, I was only hazarding a guess, which turned out to be correct. Don't take it to heart.

There was indeed 'one way co-operation' as after the US visit to Miles the planned reciprocal visit to Bell was barred. I accept that it was academic anyway thanks to the thoughtlessness of the British Govt, yet again, but it is still a fact. If you want proof of this google for 'Miles M.52' or 'Channel 4 Speed Machines' as ther are several online sources.

Also, the Bell wasn't actually an improvement of the Miles design, the M.52 was inherently superior as it could take off and land under its own power as it featured an afterburning jet and retractable undercarriage but Bell did get the all flying tail from Miles, I think I have said myself that that was the major crossover which made the X-1 workable.

I'm not Yank bashing here, its our own fault that we give away our innovations, the same thing happened with the DH.121 and Boeing 727, because we never learn.

I know I've continued off topic but I felt you raised points that I wanted to answer.

Originally posted by COOL HAND


Well, the easiest way to fix that is to fix the Russian equipment in the first place. Not to have something like the failure to launh a ballistic test missile with your own nation's president present to watch his equipment in "action."

well, when your testing brand new systems, their bound to be some bugs, look at the tests of your Patriot for example, flawless, but look what happened in combat, they were shooting down your own planes and in some cases wouldn't work, every machine has this

have u seen in Fahrenheit 911, that soldier with the rocket launcher on his shoulder, he says it doesn't work, every weapon doesn't work sometimes.......except the AK-47(my friend told me of a test that they did, and the test concluded that the AK is more accurate with sand in it than anything else, lol :roll

Maybe they were just checking them out? The US soldiers are responsible for the M-16s and I doubt they would let them out of their sight. Othewise they can be made to replace them.

No, AP states that US military troops were FORCED to use these weapons on the frontline because they didn't have sufficient supplies, I will look for an URL for you to look at...

7.62x39mm rounds are all over Iraq, 5.56x45mm rounds are not, they are fairly scarce sense virtually no Iraqi troops are issued with 556ers...

Here is a bad example what they used their AKs for...

www.news.com.au...^1702%2C00.html

Ask some soldiers who were in combat in Iraq, they will verify my story...

Originally posted by GrOuNd_ZeRo
As for the Kh-31, why would the Russian over-estimate the range on that thing? that would only make them look bad...

What kind of guidance system does it use? maybe that failed instead...

Engineer, you didn't work on this, so you have about as little proof as Dima, the reports don't seem to come from any mainstream sites...

Oh, really Ground Zero..Why don't you tell us all what I did between 1994 and 2002? Because I can tell what you were doing in 1994, you were learning how to use a fu%#'ing color crayon.

I knew about this program FIRST HAND so kiss my a$$. I was also working on the F-22 in 1994, so kiss my a$$ again.

And it wasn't a guidance system failure, or Boeing wouldn't have had to send engineers to RUSSIA to fix the problems with the RANGE. Even now it is only advertised as a 70km missile, and that is at ALTITUDE NOT SEA LEVEL SO STFU and don't F*^&'ing tell me what I was doing in 1994.

Go back to your airplane drawings.


[edit on 8-12-2004 by engineer]

Originally posted by GrOuNd_ZeRo
Here is a bad example what they used their AKs for...

Do you have a reading comprehension problem??? Where in your article does it say that coalition forces were using AK-47's? They killed insurgents who were armed, after coming under hostile fire.

What do you think they should have done, invited them over for tea?

HOW MANY SOLDIERS DO YOU PERSONALLY KNOW THAT FOUGHT IN IRAQ?

God, another know it all kid, just what we need around here...

Actually, I admit I didn't thoroughly read the article...

But they do use AKs when they are out of ammo, Kerry was right, the troops barely had enough supplies and no armor for their friggin' HMMWV's...

And to anwer your QUESTION...I KNOW MANY SOLDIER WHO THOUGHT IN IRAQ -PERSONALLY-

I am married to an American citizen who has MANY family members in the Army, I was going to join up to fight along their SIDE (but I couldn't since I was in the process of immigration) SO DONT EVEN GO THERE...

I usually don't say that I know all this if I don't have enough evidence to back it up, but I couldn't find the article on the US soldiers using the AK-47's...

I had alot of respect for you Engineer, but right now, you have LOWERED your self...

edit: And I do not ENJOY you calling me a KID...I am 23 years old and I have done MUCH research on weaponry all over the world...

[edit on 8/12/2004 by GrOuNd_ZeRo]

Oh, really Ground Zero..Why don't you tell us all what I did between 1994 and 2002? Because I can tell what you were doing in 1994, you were learning how to use a fu%#'ing color crayon.

Hey , Keep this up and you will be banned...where was I in 1994? to be honest I was in highschool going through the worst moments of my life...

I knew about this program FIRST HAND so kiss my a$$. I was also working on the F-22 in 1994, so kiss my a$$ again.

Then what are you doing on a conspiracy site among people that are on average 16-25? have any proof of what you done? you truly lowered your self to a pittiful level...

And it wasn't a guidance system failure, or Boeing wouldn't have had to send engineers to RUSSIA to fix the problems with the RANGE. Even now it is only advertised as a 70km missile, and that is at ALTITUDE NOT SEA LEVEL SO STFU and don't F*^&'ing tell me what I was doing in 1994.

You surely have a temper, I don't understand why you have to like freak out on me...I have all the right to doubt you...and you really proof you are so much older than me throwing blotted out swear words at me...very mature man...

Go back to your airplane drawings.

HEY I am trying to learn something in aircraft mechanics, I wanted to see if I had a feeling for it or anything, aparently I don't, but who cares, I have a whole life infront of me to try to attain this goal...

I wasn't saying like: OH my plane is uber 1337 and it can kick the F-22 blah blah blah...I was just sharing a design I had and I wondered if it could actually fly...

You are quite arrogant and it's pretty damn annoying...I come up with an argument, you debate, I debate, you flame...that's really great man...

I have never heard you tell anyone you worked on Russian equipment, I don't know WHAT the hell you did, I have only been around for a little while...

You know, you are even more immature than Dima right now...I am trying me hardest not to flame right back...but I will inform a moderator...

Originally posted by GrOuNd_ZeRo
Then what are you doing on a conspiracy site among people that are on average 16-25? ...you truly lowered your self to a pittiful level...

This is the only thing you have said that I agree with.

I have asked the Administrator to remove my account and all my posts on ATS.

Have a nice day

No man, don't leave,

Look, i'm sorry, don't leave just because we disagree, I do respect you, and I probably should have been less protective and more unbiased...

I hate arguments, and I really felt like crap when I finally decided to go to bed, Actually I didn't get any sleep...

I have been stupid my self, I have a big ego...but a small heart...

I hope you can accept my apologies and stick around since your expertice is welcome...

but for me it was so easy to howl with the wolves y'know...

I'm sorry if I had to screw this up...or contribute to it...