US DEA doing drug busts I the UK!

originally posted by: Justwatchingyou
a reply to: crazyewok

Careful...I have seen two threads now deleted for carrying anti-us sentiment..it could also result in you being banned from posting. There are members on this site that do not understand that ATS is a global community and feel this site solely belongs to the US visitotrs that post here. Just a word of caution. You are right however in stating that the United States for all it's great attributes is starting to display with more ferocity the uglier ones.

Comment below me - case in point.

Seeing as most the Americans here are just as disgusted I would not call it anti American, just Anti UK and USA government.

a reply to: Kryties

really? prove that statement if you're gonna spout things like it's truth. if someone is hurting people in my country i don't care if they're american, british or chinese, that alone gives us the "right" and so do extradition treaties. now even if our people protested such a thing in a foreign nation that law within said nation will still be respected.

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: Justwatchingyou
a reply to: crazyewok

Careful...I have seen two threads now deleted for carrying anti-us sentiment..it could also result in you being banned from posting. There are members on this site that do not understand that ATS is a global community and feel this site solely belongs to the US visitotrs that post here. Just a word of caution. You are right however in stating that the United States for all it's great attributes is starting to display with more ferocity the uglier ones.

Comment below me - case in point.

Seeing as most the Americans here are just as disgusted I would not call it anti American, just Anti UK and USA government.

Thank you for saying that, it was a hell of a lot nicer then what I would have replied.

originally posted by: namehere
a reply to: Kryties

really? prove that statement if you're gonna spout things like it's truth. if someone is hurting people in my country i don't care if they're american, british or chinese, that alone gives us the "right" and so do extradition treaties. now even if our people protested such a thing in a foreign nation that law within said nation will still be respected.

Actually no. The US has not extradited anyone for actions that are Crimes in the UK that are legal in the USA

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: Justwatchingyou
a reply to: crazyewok

Careful...I have seen two threads now deleted for carrying anti-us sentiment..it could also result in you being banned from posting. There are members on this site that do not understand that ATS is a global community and feel this site solely belongs to the US visitotrs that post here. Just a word of caution. You are right however in stating that the United States for all it's great attributes is starting to display with more ferocity the uglier ones.

Comment below me - case in point.

Seeing as most the Americans here are just as disgusted I would not call it anti American, just Anti UK and USA government.

I'm aware of that and wasn't a stab at you. Just that I have seen posts of that nature deleted. Take it however you want. Was for your defense not against. Have a good one.

originally posted by: crazyewok
...
It is completely legal for UK citizen to buy and sell Red Phosphorus and Iodine, import and export it.
Under UK law the couple are innconet, hence no charges against them.

Sure its illegal in the USA, but they were not selling while in the USA!

...

In my opinion is a material is illegal then it should be stopped on the border and either sent back or destroyed. It the not the responsibility of the seller to adhere to foreign import rules, that the buyer on that country soil responsibility.


If they had been selling while on US soil I would have had no issue with the extradition. Same as I have had no issue withe extradition and executions of UK citizens that have committed crimes actually on US soil.

Yes and no.

The article notes that the offence is "unlawful importation". It doesn't matter if what they are doing is legal in the UK. They agreed to export to the US, which includes agreeing to be subject to their jurisdiction in relation to the process of importing goods. If they had only exported to other EU countries, for instance, the US would not have any grounds for pursuing them.

They granted the US the right to prosecute them when they began exporting to the US. To borrow a phrase from the vernacular, they willingly "invited the Man into their lives".

While I disagree with the largely one-sided extradition system between the two countries (in this particular area of law, the US really takes the piss over and over again) in this instance it isn't baseless or inappropriate.

originally posted by: thesaneone

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: Justwatchingyou
a reply to: crazyewok

Careful...I have seen two threads now deleted for carrying anti-us sentiment..it could also result in you being banned from posting. There are members on this site that do not understand that ATS is a global community and feel this site solely belongs to the US visitotrs that post here. Just a word of caution. You are right however in stating that the United States for all it's great attributes is starting to display with more ferocity the uglier ones.

Comment below me - case in point.

Seeing as most the Americans here are just as disgusted I would not call it anti American, just Anti UK and USA government.

Thank you for saying that, it was a hell of a lot nicer then what I would have replied.

And what would you have said? you came off as cocky and entitled. What method would you taken to defend your initial post? Let's not try to deflect and distract now.

Oh also you should note that your reply would be to the OP not to me...As you're the one that asked what his issue was not I.
The reference to you as the comment below mine was that ol' "what your problem if we got permission to do it anyway?"..Not my words and not verbatim of yours but the gist of your comment.

a reply to: thesaneone

The problem?

The problem is that we do not elect our representatives to make choices that we would not make. We elect them to make choices that WE would make, on our behalf, and at our behest, and with our permission. The government are public servants, not lords and masters. Essentially, our government in a democratic nation, should be nothing more than a voice box for the people, their right arm, their advocate on the world stage.

Other than that, their job should be relatively simple. It boils down to:

Do as you are told. When the people speak, you act in the way that they would wish, not in the way you think is best.

British people want their nations laws applied to their nations citizens, not the law of the USA, or any other bloody place for that matter. Our legal system is messy enough without inserting the machinations of one of the most uniformly useless criminal justice systems ever devised,which routinely creates as many criminals as it catches, and treats all citizens as suspects at ground level.

We the people of this nation, have never given our government permission to allow law enforcement agents from the US to enforce their laws on our soil. Until we do, they have no business involving themselves with such activity. Since no UK law was broken with regard to the sale of these items, it is utterly beyond wrong for these people to have even been arrested, let alone extradited to the US.

I find this situation utterly repugnant, and it bodes ill for freedom of people all over the world.

In closing, I have no problem with the people of the USA. Most of the folk who live in that great country, that I have conversed with on these boards, and other places on the internet, are truly lovely people with good hearts. But I would rather crap on my nations flag than see US law enforced on British soil.

a reply to: crazyewok
The Americans had Marc Emery extradited from Canada to do time in u.s. prison for selling pot seeds to the u.s., the DEA are here as well..shame on our govts

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: thesaneone

a reply to: crazyewok



Not only was he providing chemicals for meth production he is also a child molester.



Your welcome.

Hey you have guns!



Guns are illegal in the UK!



Should we try and extradite you?

THERE's a bump! I say detain them all until they cheer up; or
the Guardian front page shows a particularly embaarassing
expose' of the DEA's activities. Then release them to State.

Hey, SAS stuck in the hole and photographed for posterity,
with the homespun and wigs/beards on the table-- battle
swag in the trunk? Turnabout's fair play.
And I love how they act when the lights come on.

For the record and strictly to the OP line, I am embarrased
or my shepherds regularly baring their fangs on camera now.
And the kicker to me is the UN or any agency of it: crickets.

Simply having red phosphorus does not immediately make you a drug runner. That might be tough to prove unless they can prove he was delivering it to an actual drug lab. Which If they had that info already then why not raid the lab?? It would be funny they find out the lab is pyrotechnics lab making fireworks. You never know the government and cops like to shoot first and then do detective work afterwards. Oops we shot the wrong guy, oops we raided the wrong house, oops we sprayed 500 bullets to hit an unarmed man and killed 4 neighbors as they slept. I guess H2O makes you a terrorist as well since it's used in everything too.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: thesaneone

We the people of this nation, have never given our government permission to allow law enforcement agents from the US to enforce their laws on our soil. Until we do, they have no business involving themselves with such activity. Since no UK law was broken with regard to the sale of these items, it is utterly beyond wrong for these people to have even been arrested, let alone extradited to the US.

I find this situation utterly repugnant, and it bodes ill for freedom of people all over the world.

The couple involved DID give the US government permission to exercise jurisdiction over them in this matter. That's part of the deal when you export to the US. In fact, that's part of the overheads necessary for an effective cross-border commercial system. These people were operating within international law at this stage, it's no longer a matter of purely national commerce.

While I think the US extradition system oversteps its boundaries and is very unfair in some ways, in this particular instance it is absolutely correct.

a reply to: TrueBrit

The problem in the US is our candidates are selected not elected. All national election work this way. The people get to 'choose' between to pre-selected cheerleaders.

There are over 7 billion people in the world who disagree with the US and her ABC agencies acting as the world police.

I am glad Mr. Emery's name was brought up. Extradited and imprisoned for selling seeds.

That is today's Land of the Free for you!

a reply to: TrueBrit

Thank you for the kind and happy ending, Brit.. and I also
vehemently decry most all of that rediculous Code that
the US government call law enforced anywhere.
I see in precedent no UN stepping in to call foul, either.

Continued legal fester could cause it to become a little
gory over here-- some of us may be compelled to borrow
a morning star or two if tossed across by friends.
Forget chemicals, they run out. I need ferritic fatness and
tempered to crack helms.

a reply to: crazyewok

A Flag and Star but indeed bad news. I can't fathom this one, and
it's a legal unpegging from soverignty that should have had the UN
making calls to the DEA directly. Instead, crickets.

Following the money, possibly?
Germain to this is the distinct possibility that the US's surreptious
revenue streams are about dried up-- heard this afternoon that
in the middle of August there will be no more silver price
manipulation by the London "fixers".

It's huge, and gold may follow right behind. Add to this the unilateral
unhooking from the once mighty and now toilet-paper grade PetroBuck
by Iran, Russia and China-- and the vortex in the bottom of the loo is
ramping up handsomely.

It's becoming less and less easy for the Shadow Government to estab-
lish and maintain buried revenue streams, and this bust of the two over
there may be an attempt to justify the DEA's existence to more than
the Congress.

originally posted by: michaelmcclen
a reply to: crazyewok


"A British couple could face 20 years in a US jail after being arrested on claims that they supplied a huge amount of chemicals to US."

They did break the law, they imported illegal/controlled substances into the US. As much as I despise the way the US likes to extridite anyone and everyone they can for anything they deem fit. It's up to our spineless politicians to stand up for them. That being said, I know all the risks of working in my industry, why shouldn't they when it reads like they make ALOT more than I do!

No, I don't think they broke the law. The US has IMPORT restrictions on the chemicals meaning that the importer (buyer) is responsible. The shop/couple in the UK are the exporters (sellers). Since they are in the UK exporting chemicals which are legal in the UK, they should be held harmless under US law. This is a US Customs issue that generally deals with restricted items prior to entry at US ports, it should not be a DEA issue as this is not drugs or "finished product."

I buy some of the chemicals which are also used in that "other" process, but I use them in hydrogen electrolysis and "diesel" refining. Ohhh Nooos.

These rabid US agencies should concentrate on cleaning their own house, first.

Cheers - Dave

a reply to: EvillerBob

If its international law they broke then they should be tried and punished in there own country on whose soil they committed the crime.

originally posted by: crazyewok
a reply to: EvillerBob

If its international law they broke then they should be tried and punished in there own country on whose soil they committed the crime.

...no. I'm not sure you quite get the hang of the "international" part of this.

How about this. Angry citizens in the imaginary country, WeHateEveryonistan, put a bomb in some luggage on a flight from their capital to London. This is completely legal under their laws. The plane lands, blows up, lots of people die.

But that's ok, isn't it, because it was legal in their country for them to do it. The UK has no right to want to prosecute the people responsible.

At this point you will come up with lots of reasons why this is completely different to the matter at hand. No, no it isn't. Not in the way that matters. The principle is exactly the same.

But, but, but... the crime was committed on English soil! It's completely different! Again, no it isn't. The crime in the OP was committed when the goods hit US soil. The principle is exactly the same.

a reply to: EvillerBob

And that happened.

USA harbored IRA terrorists who were known to be supporting bombings going on here.

Guess what?

USA refused to extradite them

So why the hell should UK citizens be extradited to the USA.

I say screw US law! I was not born in the USA I was born in the UK. I do dont agree to live under or comply with US law any way shape or form while on UK soil. And if they refused to extradite known IRA terrorist then I say double screw them and hope hundreds of people are doing what the Howes are doing screwing the USA war on drugs over.

originally posted by: crazyewok
a reply to: EvillerBob

And that happened.

USA harbored IRA terrorists who were known to be supporting bombings going on.

Guess what?

USA refused to extradite them

So why the hell should UK citizens be extradited to the USA.

I say screw US law!

Whether or not it's a good thing is an entirely different matter, and one on which I think we entirely agree!