John Kerry on religion: "Not the Way I Think Most People Want to Live"

Just another liberal asshat. Ignore his psychotic ramblings - that's what I do.

Liberals don't think people want to live a certain way, yet they want to FORCE them to live a certain way. Do you think they want THAT?

The core tenet of all religions is essentially "work to improve yourself and don't be a giant dbag to the people around you."

The core tenet of skull-and-bones frankenstein John Kerry is "hey let's go bomb some more brown people to make me another few million."

Remind me again which one seems more problematic.

originally posted by: seagull
a reply to: solomons path

Ah, I see what you were saying... ...and my little brain is having an issue relating to it. It's been a very long day...sorry.

May I clear up a seeming misconception on your part? I'm not what any Christian would consider a Christian. At best I'd be considered a heretic, if not an outright heathen...

I hear you . . . I'm not really attacking "Christians" per se, as much as the thought that "billions of believers" is evidence for Kerry's position being wrong. That said, personally, I think the fact that it came out of Kerry's mouth is more evidence that he is wrong than what he actually said . . . And, I'm an atheist.

And, you are also right about how other Christians view you (or others) . . . outside of a belief in Jesus as savior . . . most of the thousand sects of Christianity don't even agree on what to worship and how. Heck, I say, if you are happy, healthy, and show compassion being a "heretic" . . . Be a heretic!

I'm kinda wondering when the U.S. Secretary of State finds the time between Ukraine, Syria, the Israeli/Palestinian Peace Process and of course, running the entire State Department from the top.......to opine on how others choose or choose not to pursue religious faith?

It makes me really worry about what he isn't getting done, while spending time on something entirely outside his duties.

It's a wild time, with roles just blurred all over for who does and does NOT do what.

Historically, our oligarchies have almost always employed control and division through perception of reality. If this perception can be controlled and manipulated, then you can use it. With religion, it is (ab)used in the sense that "practice what you preach" is rarely even a topic of conversation.

Religion is a multi-faceted thing, in my opinion. I dont view it as whether or not it involves deities, but more of it being a state sponsored view of reality. Such a thing has been the backbone of control and manipulation for centuries. Because of this, I dont feel it is as imperative to focus on whether or not what he says is "true," but more on the idea that political systems seem to be trending away from religion.

Some might say this is a good thing, in principle, but it might be important to consider what control mechanism is going to take its place. I think it should be made clear in the next couple of decades, at most.

originally posted by: adjensen

While I'd like to see the US Catholic Bishops say enough is enough and excommunicate the guy,

Even as a Christian myself I would wear a excommunication from the catholic church with pride!

originally posted by: Serdgiam
but it might be important to consider what control mechanism is going to take its place. I think it should be made clear in the next couple of decades, at most.

The cult of anthropogenic climate change seems to be the leading candidate. They invented a God which exists entirely on faith, lacks any evidence to demonstrate it actually exists outside the minds of profiteering sacks of crap like AlGore, and they have embraced the ideology of "trial of disbelievers by fire" to squelch dissention.

Ironic though it is, the primary embracers of the cult of global warming also seem to be the primary rejectors of true religion.

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
The cult of anthropogenic climate change seems to be the leading candidate. They invented a God which exists entirely on faith, lacks any evidence to demonstrate it actually exists outside the minds of profiteering sacks of crap like AlGore, and they have embraced the ideology of "trial of disbelievers by fire" to squelch dissention.

I think that might be a part of it. One of my suspects is the duality of science/pseudo-science. A lot can get lost in that mix, and I would definitely include anthropogenic climate change in it. I think its important to look at policy changes that surround ideologies, and there are definitely strong links here.

I expect there will be a stronger push to monetize our "individual environmental impact."

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
I *think* he was trying to say most people don't want someone else telling them what to believe and what to practice and simply want to chose their own paths, which is an accurate statement and the primary tenent of religious freedom.

That's the message I got. I heard him say that most people want to live their lives the way they choose instead of being told how to behave and what to believe. Does religion tell us how to behave and what to believe? Yes. Does the majority of religious people try to force the rest of us to behave the way they think we should and believe the way they think we should? Yes. The religious call it "witnessing" and say it's for our own good, because "they care", but it's just a form of control.

I don't get the outrage.

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic
Does the majority of religious people try to force the rest of us to behave the way they think we should and believe the way they think we should? Yes. The religious call it "witnessing" and say it's for our own good, because "they care", but it's just a form of control.

I disagree with you on that. Witnessing is nothing more than prostyletizing or giving your testimony and it certainly has nothing to do with forcing others to do anything. It's words, either verbal or in the form of a tract, nothing more.

In all honesty, yes... some religious folks do get wrapped up in trying to force people to behave a certain way, but damned if they have any sort of monopoly on that crap. The unreligious, especially the millitant partisan unreligious, are way, way worse. Few religious people embrace the idea of the thought police... we don't have religious folk calling for imprisonment for blasphemy, and I've certainly not seen any wide spread calls for flogging someone who disagrees with a religious opinion. (at least not in the USA)

However, let's use the obvious ridiculousness of Global Warming to display the flip side.
People calling for imprisonment of dissenters? CHECK
People calling for mandatory "re-education" efforts on those who dissent? CHECK
People calling for theft of possessions and destruction of self for dissenters? CHECK

Let's look at the equally ridiculous "everything is racism" boogeyman some Americans are so gosh darn skeered of.
People losing their possessions and positions over behind-closed-doors "Thought Crime"? CHECK (Donald Sterling)
People being publically lambasted over not behaving and thinking in the way they are ordered to do? CHECK
People losing it all over not a slur, not an act of violence, but over just a simple stray away from what they have been told they should be doing or saying? CHECK

Unless we're prepared to call the Global Warming cult a religion or unless we're prepared to identify the racism attack brigade as a church, your fears seem to be misplaced by focusing on the least-practitioning of the violations you're worried about, BH.

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

I don't get the outrage.

That's because you're not a believer and so you don't see and/or care about the way that western culture is undercutting Christianity.

I don't think that Kerry should be out there promoting religion (particularly if this is his view of it,) but I don't think that he should be speaking against it, either. He's the Secretary of State, not the Secretary of Spirituality.

originally posted by: adjensen
That's because you're not a believer and so you don't see and/or care about the way that western culture is undercutting Christianity.

I'm not sure what you mean by "undercutting". Can you elaborate? As far as I can tell, western culture is kind of ignoring religion.

I don't think that Kerry should be out there promoting religion (particularly if this is his view of it,) but I don't think that he should be speaking against it, either.

I don't think he was doing either. He's speaking to the problems in Africa, which are caused by religious extremists forcing their views on others...

a reply to: adjensen

What would you expect from a guy nominated by our "clinging to their guns and their Bibles" POTUS. It's clear what kind of person he is and what kind of person he will favor around himself.

a reply to: solomons path

Why assume that by "believer" the poster meant "Christian"? I didn't.

originally posted by: adjensen
a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

I don't get the outrage.

That's because you're not a believer and so you don't see and/or care about the way that western culture is undercutting Christianity.

I don't think that Kerry should be out there promoting religion (particularly if this is his view of it,) but I don't think that he should be speaking against it, either. He's the Secretary of State, not the Secretary of Spirituality.

What I see from most Christians is their air of moral authority and an attitude of exceptionalism or uniqueness. What I see, especially in America, is that when anything challenges or disagrees with this it is considered an "attack on Christianity", in large part to the inherent persecution complex that Christianity fosters and promotes through their veneration of martyrdom. I see a group that holds, not only, the nation's majority, but globally as well continually talk about all things "non-Christian" being a threat to their freedoms and even humanity at large. Christian's always retreat to the persecution complex when faced with a preceived struggle against those that don't share their beliefs.

See it everyday on FoxNews and hear it, at least, once a day from conservative members of local, state, and federal government.

I see a bunch of insecure "sheep" playing the victim, when other's question the validity of their savior.

What I don't see is any coordinated effort or campaign to "bring down Christianity" outside of the same doubts, questions posed to any other religion (heck, even Christians question and refuse to "obey" other religions). What I also don't see is how Christianity (you know a personal theological ideology) is being "undercut" . . . especially when discussing it's "role" in a secular governmental system. Maybe I missed the daily Christian slaughter news on the ol' idiot box?

But, you are right about one thing . . . Kerry, in his position, shouldn't be making those statements. As the U.S.'s top dog diplomat, he should realize that public comments such as these could damage relations with countries where religion is still a sacred, unquestionable entity.

originally posted by: buster2010
Religion is just another tool to be used to control the masses. It is used to get the people to act in a way a small minority wants them to act while retaining power over them. Religion has been used to hold humanity back long enough and it is time we move beyond it. Just look back in history and you can easily find where religion has held back mankind's progress the dark ages being just one of many examples.

Am I correct to assume that you're talking about Religion as led by man not led by the Lord Jesus?

If so then you're post is about man-made religion not the one that Jesus started - the True Christianity, which will endure forever as it's approved by his God and Father.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: solomons path

Why assume that by "believer" the poster meant "Christian"? I didn't.

Please go back and read my initial post . . . it wasn't actually focused on Christianity . . . Christianity was used as an example at the end of the post, due to their current "lead" in believers. The responses to that post focused on Christianity . . . so, I responded in kind.

Also, the OP clearly put their argument in Christian terms by referencing JudeoChristian mythology and the political issues those believers get off on.

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

I'm not sure what you mean by "undercutting". Can you elaborate? As far as I can tell, western culture is kind of ignoring religion.

The 'Scandalous,' Nonsensical Portrayal of Christian Faith on TV

Christians, Their Media Portrayal & Myth (Atheist Ira Glass, host of NPR's This American Life on the poor portrayal of Christians in the media)

Actress Patricia Heaton Speaks on Media’s Portrayal of ‘Christians As Bad Guys’

And, in the UK:

Christians in the UK face problems in living out their faith and these problems have been mostly caused and exacerbated by social, cultural and legal changes over the past decade.

From the study: Clearing the Ground inquiry: Preliminary report into the freedom of Christians in the UK

a reply to: adjensen

So, some in the media make fun of religion? That has no effect on you or your religion at all. Seems you want people to behave the way you think they should behave... making what John Kerry said spot on.

Why do you care how religion is "portrayed" in the media? Live your life, practice your religion and leave other people alone.

I'm sorry, but when religious people aren't permitted to force their beliefs on others, they claim to be victims of religious oppression. Truth is, you're seeing other people who are TIRED of being pushed around by religions standing up and pushing back, and you don't like it.

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

So, some in the media make fun of religion? That has no effect on you or your religion at all. Seems you want people to behave the way you think they should behave... making what John Kerry said spot on.

You asked how Christianity has been undercut by Western culture, because you said you didn't believe it. Now that I've shown that even non-Christians see it, your response is "who cares?" I can pretty well guarantee that if you substituted "blacks" for "Christians" in how the media portrays a group, every liberal in the country would be out on Hollywood Boulevard protesting.

Again, I don't want Kerry promoting religion. I also don't want the Secretary of State of the United States speaking out against religion, and I don't think that is an unreasonable position, but it seems clear to me that this is part of a continued effort to undermine religion in the west.