Jesus made the law even more difficult.

In a sense he did make it that way. It was done to confuse those who would try to overcome it in the end. It takes the power of the holy spirit to overcome the dellusion and that can only be done with an open sincere heart.

The only thing a person does to become a Christian is to believe they are a Christian.It's a self appointment justified by their belief of having faith in "their" Belief System((their religion).

Yahoshua did not "modify" Judaism he was dismantling it.He was not an observant Jew.He broke many of the Jewish traditions that's why they tried to and eventually killed him.He was not "teaching" nor did he start a new religion nor did the apostles.He did one thing only ..proclaimed(by statement of fact)the coming of the Kingdom of the creator God(it is a realm of existence not a place) and the deliverance of ALL of mankind from the realm of death…and that's it.Everything else is an extrapolation of religion and are just"new" doctrines of men.

There is absolutely Nothing anyone can do to contribute to their salvation and there is NONE that have "been" saved past tense because salvation/deliverance is not an event it's a process.Any attempt to do so is futility and any belief that it is already attained is delusion.

The 2nd main purpose of salvation is the destruction of your religion…..your Belief System… it is the core of what you are being delivered from.The vast majority are not going to be delivered of their religion in this age nor the one to come because they have blasphemed (denied) the creator God by their traditions of men the core belief being the doctrine of the eternal punishment of hell.

Christianity (like Islam and all religions)is merely part of billions of peoples core Belief System.It is only faith in their Belief System …..it is not truth.Having faith in Christianity or Islam or any religion is the antithesis of being saved…it is what billions will be delivered from.That is the purpose of forgiveness which the meaning is "freed from bondage".

Yeah, nahh. This thread is clearly an attack on Christianity and comes from a place of complete, total and utter misunderstanding of basic Christian philosophy.

Jesus didn't make things harder, he made them easier and better. All of those things he has said you have once again taken way out of context. They are all parts of lessons on humility and one is meant to interpret them in the spirit they were presented i.e. Just be kind to one another, don't escalate arguments, go the extra mile for someone etc etc.

originally posted by: FlyersFan
a reply to: AfterInfinity

(Post DELETED) by author with anger. Not to FlyersFan, but to the OP.

I am in agreement with everything FlyersFan has said.

edit on 09-22-2013 by mysterioustranger because: (no reason given)

I noticed that Scorpion abandoned this thread.

He did a hit and run.

Mods, is there a rule about posting something potentially incendiary and then abandoning the thread?

He appears to not have the courage to give a reasonable response to even one poster.

originally posted by: dollukka
Jesus made the law easier

So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets

He basicly asked people to use their common sense, see themselves in a position of others. It was not following old rules blindfolded but more opening their eyes for what is right and what is wrong.

well all thats fine. I'd like to know how you would react if you are slapped. Why is it that all my christian colleagues, at best, are like any other people....they dont go out of their way to do favors or be nice to people. One christian I know mocked me for handing out money to a beggar saying 'dont encourage beggars'. Ive known plenty of Christians all y life, and none of them displayed any moral behaviour out of the ordinary....and were far from turning the cheek.

a reply to: sk0rpi0n

Most Christians do not follow Jesus's Commandments, which is why, after giving his teachings at the Sermon on The Mount (Matthew 5:44-45) he said this, because he knew that there would be people claiming to be Chrisitians who do not follow His Teachings:

Matthew 7:21
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Matthew 7:24-29
Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:

And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine:

For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.

originally posted by: grandmakdw
I noticed that Scorpion abandoned this thread.

He did a hit and run.

Mods, is there a rule about posting something potentially incendiary and then abandoning the thread?

He appears to not have the courage to give a reasonable response to even one poster.

haha. I only made this thread last evening. I dont sit around refreshing the page every five seconds. I keep checking on replies, but wait longer to start posting. And not a single point of op has been directly addressed., all I've gotten so far is some vague philosophy revolving around the bible. Ill ask YOU directly....Have you ever been angry wih someone? Then according to Jesus youre guilty of murder. Are you that saintly that you never feel any anger? Or have you found a convenient loop hole around the problem? Or are you not guilty because Jesus anyway ''died'' for your sin of 'murder'...that is is if you ever felt anger/hatred.

@ arpgme......yes Jesus did say there would be consequences for not practicing his commands. So the question is, aren't Christians in a tight spot because they are commanded to turn the cheek and love the enemy or face the consequences.? Or is it that a christian who fails to keep Jesus' commandments gets saved anyway because jesus 'died' for his sins? Then just what was the point of Jesus teaching to turn cheeks and love enemies?

originally posted by: sk0rpi0n
Or is it that a christian who fails to keep Jesus' commandments gets saved anyway because jesus 'died' for his sins? Then just what was the point of Jesus teaching to turn cheeks and love enemies?

In order for God to forgive you, you must forgive others, that is the reason for the 'turn the other cheek' and 'love thy enemies' teaching, nobody is perfect and we all have sinned and we need God to forgive us.

Matthew 6:14-15
For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

It is because they didn't like Jesus' Teachings and they wanted to live in sin that they tried to get rid of Christ by killing him, but The Word of Christ is true and whoever holds on to it will not walk in darkness but have life and will be able to feel the peace of God.

Jesus came so that he could bring Living Water to flow through the Hearts of those who who believe him (John 7:38) and that living Water is God's Holy Spirit (John 7:39) which has the power to clean sins (John 20:22-23).

The Core of Christ's teachings is Forgiveness, but you need to Forgive to be Forgiven.

a reply to: sk0rpi0n

How would i feel if get slapped. Don´t know as i have never been slapped not even as a kid, propably i would just take a slap and thats it..
What is so difficult in idea of using your common sense ? Did you asked your ( friend ? the christian ) why ? Did he explained why ? Why you gave the beggar money instead of giving him food ? at least food would be eaten and not in the pockets of organized crime rings. Did you used your common sense by giving this beggar a money ?

a reply to: sk0rpi0n

haha. I only made this thread last evening. I dont sit around refreshing the page every five seconds. I keep checking on replies, but wait longer to start posting. And not a single point of op has been directly addressed.

You also never answered Flyerfans or my point about your obvious irony whereby you tell one group of people not to comment on your threads if they are not of the same believe but then you go and do the exact thing yourself. Perhaps I will start a thread on your religious believes, because as far as I am concerned there are a lot more concerning things on how some of your fellow believers translate and interpret the teachings of Mohammed than Christians do with Jesus.

originally posted by: sk0rpi0n
One christian I know mocked me for handing out money to a beggar saying 'dont encourage beggars'.

Thats not 'mocking' .. that's common sense in some countries. You don't hand money out in the streets. You donate through charities and religious groups so that it gets used properly and doesn't encourage beggars to hit on pedestrians. India is a good example of where this is necessary. Otherwise, people get swamped and robbed by beggars.

Ive known plenty of Christians all y life, and none of them displayed any moral behaviour out of the ordinary....and were far from turning the cheek.

As a Muslim, YOU are supposed to follow what Jesus says. Do you 'turn the other cheek'? Do you tell the truth all the time? Are you always honest in your speech and dealings? I know for a fact that answer is NO.

originally posted by: sk0rpi0n
. And not a single point of op has been directly addressed.,

That's absurd. Your 'point' was addressed repeatedly. It's just you didn't like the answer because it doesn't match your Islamic view of Jesus.

You make thread after thread all with the same theme - Jesus is a legalistic mess and Christians should see Jesus as Muslims do or else they aren't following Jesus. Every last one of those threads has been adequately addressed by the Christians, but you never accept the responses. This thread - 'Jesus made the law even more difficult' is just one more of your threads of the same theme. So yes, the point has been put forth by you many times ... and it's been shot down many times.

Just some of the many threads you've posted with the same theme as this thread ... all within the past year ... all about following old testament laws like the Muslims do or else ...

Christianity, Homosexuality, Pig Meat
"No One Can Take My Life From Me' - Was Jesus Really Killed?
"All that they Tell You, Do and Observe" - Jesus Acknowledgement of the Pharisees
Being Christian While Rejecting OT Figures
Mark 4:11-12 - The Myth That Jesus Came to Call All Sinners
I Have Not Come To Call the Righteous, But the Sinners"
Islamification = God's Payback for the Creation of Israel
Rabbi Baruch Efriti: 'Islamification of Europe a Good Thing
Christians, When Was the Last Time You Turned the Other Cheek
Animal Sin Sacrifices are Prophecied to Return, So What Was the Point of Jesus 'Sin Sacrifice'
Christianity and the Law
Did Jesus Increase Your Chances of Going to Hell?

So see .... your 'point' in the OP has been addressed. It's been addressed both in this thread and in all the other threads you've started that call out Christians for supposedly not following what Jesus said about 'the law'. Christianity is not stuck in the year 4500 bc. It's called a NEW Testament for a reason ... it's NEW. Love God and love your neighbor. Give it a try. It's easy and it's common sense. But if you decide you'd rather be all Leviticus ... don't eat bacon and cut your beard a special way otherwise you go to hell .. then go right ahead and follow all that. Your choice.

a reply to: FlyersFan

Maybe the OP is confused as to why a lot of Christians (such as yourself) choose to ignore roughly half of the Christian scriptures?

Isn't the old testament the source of Christianity? Would Christianity exist without the old testament?

At least Muslims (like creationists) are much more consistent with their scriptural beliefs and generally don't pick on a whim what they choose to believe and what not to.....no mater how insane they are.

originally posted by: Prezbo369
a reply to: FlyersFan

Maybe the OP is confused as to why Christians (such as yourself) choose to ignore roughly half of the Christian scriptures?

Isn't the old testament the source of Christianity? Would Christianity exist without the old testament?

At least Muslims (like creationists) are consistent with their scriptural beliefs and don't pick on a whim what they choose to believe and what not to.....

I actually do not agree with your comments whatsoever. There are plenty of Muslims who have taken from their holy book and translated teachings from Mohammed and misconstrued these teachings to their own ends to suit their own belief systems. I can give you plenty of examples of this but this OP is not about Islam, what it actually seems to be and it seems relatively new to me on ATS is some Muslim ATS members are bashing the Christian Faith.

originally posted by: flammadraco

originally posted by: Prezbo369
a reply to: FlyersFan

Maybe the OP is confused as to why Christians (such as yourself) choose to ignore roughly half of the Christian scriptures?

Isn't the old testament the source of Christianity? Would Christianity exist without the old testament?

At least Muslims (like creationists) are consistent with their scriptural beliefs and don't pick on a whim what they choose to believe and what not to.....

I actually do not agree with your comments whatsoever. There are plenty of Muslims who have taken from their holy book and translated teachings from Mohammed and misconstrued these teachings to their own ends to suit their own belief systems. I can give you plenty of examples of this but this OP is not about Islam, what it actually seems to be and it seems relatively new to me on ATS is some Muslim ATS members are bashing the Christian Faith.

I've been trying to sit this debate out, but I can't help myself lol.

I think the videos posted by another member are the poorest example ever of Christian vs Islam theology debates.

The only thing I got from them is that the Christian dude was a fool and cant explain basic doctrine to the same level as a catholic priest and that the immam was a master of comedy that perhaps struck a note with atheists whom laughed at his comments.

The second and third vids were even more laughable, with the second claiming that you can't prove that you had a great great great great great grandparent. Clearly they have not heard of ancestry.com

originally posted by: Prezbo369
Maybe the OP is confused as to why a lot of Christians (such as yourself) choose to ignore roughly half of the Christian scriptures?

He isn't confused.

Jesus and the Law

Jesus made one statement about the Law that often causes confusion: “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. (NIV, Matthew 5:17–18)

Christians have struggled to understand exactly what Jesus meant. At first reading, this seems to say that all the Old Testament rules and rituals must still be observed. But Jesus and His disciples did not observe many of those rules and rituals, so it could not mean that. It is frequently pointed out that the term "the Law" could have many different meanings at the time of Jesus:1,2

The ceremonial laws including "clean" and "unclean" lists, sacrifices, dietary restrictions, ritual washings, etc.
The civil law regulating social behavior and specifying crimes, punishments and other rules
The moral and ethical laws, such as the Ten Commandments
The Pentateuch (the first 5 books of the Bible)
The scribal law - the 600+ rules formulated by the scribes that everyone was expected to obey
The Scripture as a whole

Jesus did not abolish the moral and ethical laws that had been in effect from the time of Moses. He affirmed and expanded upon those principles, but He said obedience must be from the heart (attitudes and intentions) rather than just technical observance of the letter of the law (Matthew 5:21-22, 27-28, 31-32, 33-34, 38-42, 43-44, etc.).

However, Jesus and His disciples did not observe the strict scribal rules against doing any work on the Sabbath (Matthew 12:1-14, Mark 2:23-28, 3:1-6, Luke 6:1-11, 13:10-17, 14:1-6, John 5:1-18). Neither did they perform the ritual hand washings before eating (Matthew 15:1-2). In contrast to the dietary rules of the Law, Jesus said no food can defile a person; it is bad attitudes and actions that can make a person unholy (Matthew 15:1-20, Mark 7:1-23). Jesus frequently criticized the scribal laws (Matthew 23:23, Mark 7:11-13) and some aspects of the civil law (John 8:3-5, 10-11).

Therefore, Jesus may have been specifically teaching that the moral and ethical laws in the Scripture would endure until the end of time. That would be consistent with His actions and other teachings. Through His teachings and actions, Jesus revealed the true meaning and intent of the Law. It is also pointed out that Jesus, Himself, is the fulfillment of the Law (Matthew 26:28, Mark 10:45, Luke 16:16, John 1:16, Acts 10:28, 13:39, Romans 10:4) The sacrifice of Jesus on the cross ended forever the need for animal sacrifices and other aspects of the ceremonial law.

Jesus PERFECTED the law. So he threw out things like stoning a person to death, and instead installed mercy and forgiveness. He brought COMMON SENSE to the law - something the legalistic people can't seem to understand.

originally posted by: flammadraco

originally posted by: Prezbo369
a reply to: FlyersFan

.....

it seems relatively new to me on ATS is some Muslim ATS members are bashing the Christian Faith.

Asking theological questions or pointing out flaws in doctrine is not the same as bashing a religion. Most christians (the ones regular to the religion forums) however, bash Islam, its people and the prophet in ways that cannot be described as civil discussion. Example, calling Islam violent and backwards because of extremists living in a war torn and impoverished country. Thats like pointing out to the Amish community and declaring all of christianity as backwards and anti-technology. ___________________________________________________ This thread is an example of a doctrinal problem. The question posed is ''did Jesus make the law stricter by upgrading the definition of deadly sins to include normal human emotion and demanding imossibly high moral standards?''. I also asked if believing Jesus died for sins, saves a person who fails to follow Jesus' commands?when i logged in today, i noticed these points have not been directly addressed and instead people are making an issue out of muslims asking questions on theology.

originally posted by: sk0rpi0n
This thread is an example of a doctrinal problem.

There is no doctrinal problem.

The question posed is ''did Jesus make the law stricter by upgrading the definition of deadly sins to include normal human emotion and demanding imossibly high moral standards?''.

And that was answered. NO.

I also asked if believing Jesus died for sins, saves a person who fails to follow Jesus' commands?

And that was answered. YES.

Read the answers.