The Conspiracy To Discredit Christ as a Myth and to change Christianity into "do what thou wilt"

Why are some people who call themselves Christians OK with wars and are mean to others?

They understand the "you are forgiven" part, but they don't understand the "forgive others" part.

The two go together, you must forgive in order to be forgiven. (Matthew 6:15 / Mark 11:26)

If you forgive others, then you will turn the other cheek (Matthew 5:39),
and love your enemies and pray for those who prosecute you (Matthew 5:44),
And when someone ask for your help, you will give it without rejecting them (Matthew 5:42),

And then he said that to do unto others what you would have them do unto you is The Law and The Prophets (Matthew 7:12)

The Golden Rule is a summary of The Sermon on The Mount.
Forgiveness is The Core of The Sermon on The mount.

----

How many times are we supposed to Forgive before we give up?

Not just seven times, but up to seventy times seven times (Matthew 18:21-22)

Even if they do it 7 times in the day returning 7 times saying "I repent", forgive them (Luke 17:4)


The body does not want to forgive. Anger and feelings of Superiority takes over The Body. It is The Spirit that gets people to Forgive others.

Be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to anger; for the anger of man does not produce the righteousness that God desires (James 1:19-20)

The Conspiracy To Discredit Christ as a Myth

Doubt that.

There is nothing much there in need of discrediting. The conspiracy has always been the one by beleivers who (quite fraudulently at times) try to bolster claims his existence.

a reply to: djz3ro Well I didn't get you started but seeing you started please continue .You surly have some sort of proof to back up your assertion .

a reply to: arpgme Christian faith is a process of learning through trials and tribulation .Some of us Christians are either slow learners or just dumb ,take your pick .You ask why or how can we be forgiven when we dont forgive . You must admit that Peter took his time learning .Most of Pauls letters were to correct the believers .If they were believers then they were Christians who were forgiven before they learned how to forgive .

The main stream church is infiltrated by wolves .You can see it and were are warned and told to expect it in the Bible .If you have a wolf that is leading the pack they will .One of the most common things you see in Christianity is members leaving .Not because they lost their faith but because of their faith .God tells us to come out from among them .The Jesuits were created to destroy the protestant churches and they are working on it .

The Conspiracy To Discredit Christ as a Myth and to change Christianity into "do what thou wilt"

I just want to examine the title of this thread.

1) The Conspiracy
Not everything in this world is a conspiracy. Some things are just people being honest about their opinions and themselves. Whether you agree with their position or not isn't the threshold for the definition of a conspiracy, it is just another opinion. Just because ATS is a site that discusses conspiracy theories, doesn't mean everything has to be viewed as a conspiracy. When all you have is a hammer, you can still understand that screwdrivers exist.

2) To Discredit Christ as a Myth
The concept of the "redemptive power of Christ" (or messiah in other belief traditions) is a mythology, by every definition of the word except the very recent adoption of its use as a synonym for the word "untruth". A myth is a word map to the human mind, a description of the basic archetypes that make up the thought patterns that make us human, and in this way is an exposition of 'Truth'. The myth of "the savior" or "messiah" exists in virtually all mythological systems. The physical existence of Jesus is not a myth, it is a legend. Some argue that Jesus was not an historical figure, many (most) believe that Jesus was historical. That the mythology of Christ was superimposed on the legend of Jesus is beyond doubt. (See Joseph Campbell's book "The Hero with a Thousand Faces").

Furthermore, and most importantly, recognizing the Mythology of Christ for what it is DOES NOT DISCREDIT CHRIST , it gives it strength, believability, and joins it irrevocably to belief traditions world wide and through out history. Redemption is a fundamental archetype of the human condition, all humans seek redemption, whatever their belief tradition; knowing the truth of this is much more powerful than mere belief in the redemptive power of one man.

It is actually possible to trace the use of the word 'myth' as a synonym for 'falsehood' to a 'conspiracy' by the Church to discredit the idea that the mythology of Christ preceded the life of Jesus and existed in literally every belief tradition on the planet long before Paul established the Christian church and defined its mythology.

3) and to change Christianity into "do what thou wilt"
I am struggling to figure out what it is you are taking aim at here. Death-bed repentances? Prosperity Theology? Something else? Understanding Christ as a mythology has absolutely nothing to do with being free to "do as thou wilt" any more than riding a bicycle has anything to do with knowing how to fish.

The only threat I see of changing Christianity into "do what thou wilt" is the so-called "Prosperity Theology" preachers. It might not be to strong to call these folks 'heretics', but they are not, as far as I can see, trying to get people to understand Christ as myth, they are trying to twist his words and that of Paul into knots. They are trying to convince people that it is actually quite simple for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle, and it doesn't really matter how much mush to have to create to accomplish it.

I recommend this discussion of the Prosperity Theology 'movement':

a reply to: arpgme

Christians seem to love the siege attitude towards Christ and its ridiculous to think that there is some conspiracy today about him. The conspiracy was when the Council decided to make him into the Christ you have today. All you know about christ comes from the writings of those who conspired or were involved in this conspiracy before Nicea in order to get their select place on this earth - eg simply look at the so-called venerated catholic church and its pontiffs today - still there despite all their deplorable behaviour, which if you believe in what Christ is supposed to have taught, you would have left the Catholic church just by looking at its history and the lies it perpetrates e.g. durex with holes and conspiring to conceal - the sexual predators within its ranks throughout the ages. (and its gtreedy tricks to get more money in such as holy relics and seats in heaven etc).

People today are free to think for themselves and not rely on the pulpit. Many people today want to know the actual truth, if its possible to dig deep enough. Do you actually blame them when we are talking about what happens to us after death and do we actually have a soul? These things are important, unless trotting off to church because its 'what we do on a Sunday am' is all the lip service one thinks will get one into the hereafter.

The whole issue of 'do as you want'. is aptly demonstrated by the elite, many of who also sit next to the papacy and church and those who control the wealth, regardless of the fact that were wealth spread, not necessarily as cash, resources exist to supply makind without famine and starvation.

Regarding the pagan gods, you seem remarkably ignorant. If you that the Goddess in her many forms one recognises the broader concept of things like harmony which stretch between two people and between man and the rest of mankind.
All the pantheons represent different characterists of man's character. These characterises when considered represent both the negative side and the positive side of each characteristic. Many christians think they are superior in their attitude towards people yet they are ignorant of the wider ancient beliefs which incorporated so much in the ancient Zodiacs. Today tunnel vision is still represented by the saying 'Oh he/she is on the wrong path' , something I have heard many of the church elders mutter to each other so ofter, regardless of Christ's advice 'Judge Not' etc

Were you more informed of the Wiccan beliefs you would know you only have part of the attitude of many people today, which is "Do as you will provided it harms none" The second part is rather important, don't you think.

So perhaps there is no actual conspiracy as you see it at all, people are far better than perhaps you credit them, you only have to look at the outpourings of kind acts when some catastrophe hits and the help they all gather to raise to send to the afflicted part of the world. I think humanity, and its values is fine, you just need to pick out the power and money focused psychopaths - which is another discussion.

Does bible or other holy books tell that how religions, churches and priests will be working against the spirituality and freedom of humanity, while working for the other guy and for the NWO.

I see how all that is working to "free" humanity and its happening everywhere, ppl leaving religions in masses past few years, atleast in finland its like this. Also i dont know excatly how much its increased in years but theres also alot more exposure of paedophilic priests and other religious leaders, litte while ago i read how group of believers live together in community and it turn out there were about 60 kids who had been used in these devils in sheep clothing own personal sick twisted "needs", i wonder how common this really is around the world, maybe theres these communties everywhere and they "raising" kids like this, raping and mind manipulating them whole youth to their "new world" they paveling the way.

There is info about nazies too, how they liked kids, how they study kids with very sick and brutal ways and not only in ww2 but they get to continue this sh1t over decades, to the 1980 it was practised in romania alone, how bad it was in else where, where they brought these nazies after war. Twin siblings was their favorite subjects whom they tortured really bad. Theres info how catholic pope of that time blessed hitler and nazies for their devil deeds, no wonder really becouse catholic seem to hate these ppl in question over hundreds of years, how they painted them as mytholical predator monsters and now they are got exposed all the time from really bad child molesting rings, how popes defend their paedophilic priests etc.

There are much much more about these theories and facts how they connect and its not just random sh1t happening around the world, i see its very connected everywhere, how this is their way to wage war against humans and God.

originally posted by: arpgme
Trying to mix Truth and Lies is like trying to mix Water and Oil. In Reality, there is only Truth. Lies are only words and ideas in the mind which confuses people but they can always observe Reality to see the truth.

Forgiveness is truly something that will bring Love and Peace ("the will of Heaven being done on Earth").

We are told that Love, Peace, Joy, Kindness, and so on are the Fruits of The Spirit (Galatians 5:22-23)

And if you live (sow) by The Spirit then by The Spirit you will be rewarded (reap) everlasting life.

Even if you don't believe in a Spiritual Everlasting Life, the Spirit will still reward you when you live by it even here on Earth.


Being kind to others and being happy is good for your social and mental health, it reduces stress and is good for your immune system and peace with others will help you live longer as opposed to wars.

The Spirit is so powerful that its effects can be seen Here, in The Physical World.

I think you meant to say that this is YOUR truth. Not mine, not his over there and not hers down the road. What you believe is your truth and yours alone, so please stop with the whole "since you don't believe what I do, your view on things is wrong" routine. That in and of itself is what is causing a major portion of the populace to have such a disdain for christians nowadays. Remember.....Respect begets Respect

a reply to: arpgme

I don't reject the idea of Christianity as a whole. My problem stems from the fact that there are people out there who consult a book in order to figure out what they should or shouldn't do. People shouldn't need the threat of going to hell in order to be a good person with a sense of morality. I mean, in my opinion there is something fundamentally wrong if you can't figure out how to be a decent human being on your own. I'm not saying that it's wrong to have faith, quite the opposite actually. But faith should come from the heart, not from fear. I find something lacking in any religion that preaches to fear a creator while in the same breath professing his unconditional love. If my creator loves me unconditionally, why do I need to fear that he will smite me if I make a mistake?

Jesus was introduced into the bible to highjack the glory from Yahweh.

Who do you think people are expecting to return? Yahweh or Jesus? I also don't like paul. Hes comparable to Mohammed.
Seeing how both of them butchered the scriptures, and in turn made them the *soloman* with otherwise otherworldy powers. Painting a myrad of myths, concurning a Virgin birth when all of that is Demonic nonsense.
To be impregnated by an *angel*? The very same *angels* in the new testament are running around creating hybrids and doing full scale abductions world wide. When you pray to this Jesus fellow you are directly praying to beings NON ASSOCIATED with YAHWEH. The old testament is very dark with many scenarios were Yahweh appears as a black cloud.
This does not Occure in the new testament and in fact is slandered many many many times. Just reading the book gives me an eyesore with all the light mythology and references to paul throughout that half of the book. Quite honestly im not happy about it all and it kinda pisses me off. Jesus is afrubalub and even if he was real. Hes a Pleiadian Cult leader. Nothing more. Direct contact with the Old ones who are linked with Yahweh results in horrorfying experiences full of doom. Just even Their presence causes panic and the subsiquent fear and grovelling in humans.
Not even if people fully understand what they are seeing, benevolent or molevolent. They grovel, Calling to dead family members and deities in hopes of banishing something that wouldn't of killed you anyways.

Because if you read the old testament ( All of it) and compare it with the new testament * Not the outcome of Ancient scrolls and texts such as the versions written in the old testament, Origins are the Dead sea scrolls* The new testament is a washup up Greek mythology within the roman rule because Solar deities were worshiped around this time.

And ever since those recent events * 10 years really isn't that long of a time, time passes by very quickly and it seems as if in our childhood the emergance of advanced technology and electricity was just yesterday* Everyone just assumes that the sides have been decided who's who, Evil and good.


People die for your sins all the time, But nothing is holding you from Heaven.
You all have a big misconception about heaven.

Do not confuse the Underworld with the realm of the living. Only the dead dwell in the underworld, The living do not.
There is no seperation, No 2 door split in the underworld. There is only the one door, and that door is Death.
You may return to the realm of the living, But you will not be in heaven. Nor is Heaven in Death.

Heaven is to be created on Earth, This is very specific, Even for our buddy Paul Mohammed who likes to think hes the center of the universe. Pretty much jumps all over the place between it being a *divine* realm and it being a physically in the realm of the living. Eitherway, Jesus can exist or not. I don't really care.

Even if he does, There's nothing him or his firefly feathered lizards can do to stop the Old Ones from fullfilling the destiny of this soon to be colony. And our ambitions will be changed to accomidate space travel, and war.
There will be no slave race because that is counterproductive to the ultimate goal. The ultimate goal is to convert humans into Energy beings, since this is the only way such an organism can reproduce. That's my plan anyways.
You could interprit that plan anyways you wish. Ironically, its similar to what's preplanned in the Old Testament.

We humans orginated from Aliens, And the time will come when humanity will need to be fully introduced and indoctrainated into their ranks. But that cannot occure without a human intermediary to communicate with the humans and via back to the Aliens. Since Humans will freak out, If such myths exist with Yahweh and the highjacked Jesus guy. It's pretty evident that this *second coming* will be some *fanatic* Alien prophet.

That's pretty much the truth of it. And people are clinging to the sunshine painted PG-13 flowery imagery of the visions of St.Paul. When the actual outcome and characters are much more Terrorfying.


You either side with the ones who can cast fear into any living creaure, Or you you side with the confusing image of humanlike aliens dwelling with *greys* and can wonder why the 2 are chilling together, When they are the same species that suffered from genetic altering pathogens ( part of the reason why they are here is to reverse the damage that occured thousands of years ago)

Their first plan was to take our regenitive qualities, When that failed and we genetically altered them with bio-weapons (pretty much effected the whole planet wiping out and converting thousands of species) Poof, dinosaurs are dead and so is the Feathered serpent, well aside from it not being fully dead and in less agressive physical state. You can interprit it anyway you want.

But there are some deadly species hanging around our planet, and studying on humans is not a good enough reason to stick around. Undoing a gentic mess and reactivating their first plan is plenty of motivation for them to hang around. Expecially if the disease is slowly destroying their genetic material with each generation, they get stupider and balder, And and toothless. From a dragon to a chicken in one fell swoop.

So if there was any reason to destroy humans, and to halt the preplanned destiny of a space faring colony. Those would be it. Now im not gunna claim this is all 100%. With what i said at the ending there, iv drawn my own conclusions that this is what is occuring from looking at ancient monuments/stone walls with images as well as myths and current lore from abductees.

As for the Old Ones plan, It's already well known and is recorded in the bible. What other need would there be for a *lord of Hosts?* If your connecting any of these dots, it should become clear that the fine line between good and evil is very slim when it comes to planetary-galatic conquest. You're God is a commander of a space born army.
And so, the people of Earth better be prepared for such experiences. Because the whole Jesus crap really throws it all off and isn't helping at all.

Psalm 150:1-6

Praise the Lord! Praise God in his sanctuary; praise him in his mighty heavens! Praise him for his mighty deeds; praise him according to his excellent greatness! Praise him with trumpet sound; praise him with lute and harp! Praise him with tambourine and dance; praise him with strings and pipe! Praise him with sounding cymbals; praise him with loud clashing cymbals!

Psalm 68:4

Sing to God, sing praises to his name; lift up a song to him who rides through the deserts; his name is the Lord; exult before him!

Daniel 3:15

Now if you are ready when you hear the sound of the horn, pipe, lyre, trigon, harp, bagpipe, and every kind of music, to fall down and worship the image that I have made, well and good. But if you do not worship, you shall immediately be cast into a burning fiery furnace. And who is the god who will deliver you out of my hands?”

Isaiah 30:29

You shall have a song as in the night when a holy feast is kept, and gladness of heart, as when one sets out to the sound of the flute to go to the mountain of the Lord, to the Rock of Israel.

Its also very likely that *rock* is a very special monument in Egypt.

originally posted by: BombDefined
I was trying to see how Christians justified military service (i.e. ANZAC day) with the commandment 'Thou Shalt not Kill'.

I'm a Christian. I was in the US Army for five years. There is no contradiction. No where did Jesus say that you can't protect yourself or engage in self defense. If there had been a war and we had been invaded, I would have had no problem blasting the hell out of the invaders and then going and praying my rosary at the end of the day.

This thread is really interesting. Specifically when viewed in the terms of someone who used to be Christian yet now is not (like myself) Its interesting how defensive Christians become when their religion is treated the same way (or even better) that they have treated all other religions throughout the entire history of Christianity, including ones that were extremely similar to their own, not to mention non heterodox christian schools.


Its just really interesting to see the offense taken, the fear produced, and all the fallout from ideologies that refuse to be treated critically , bronze age philosophies which continue to maintain a world of magic and mythos, but not even in a systematic anthropological/mythological way.

a reply to: immoralist

Yes Christians seem to view questioning their beliefs as attacks on them when in reality, questioning the belief and the subsequent search for an answer should strengthen that faith if it was true. Yet instead, we see time and again, Christians adopting the persecution complex when their beliefs are questioned. Maybe if they had more proof than a silly book written by goat herders as their evidence, like the geologic record, ancient artifacts, etc then people would be more apt to believe them. And then as always, I maintain that if the message that Christians spew was so holy and divine then it should speak for itself, the very message should enlighten someone and all would believe EXACTLY the same since it was divine and therefore not open to interpretation. Instead men can interpret this message millions of different ways, some good, some bad and we have the Christianity of today.

I think this thread is very interesting also. To read so many posts from
people that have mostly been around what, forty years tops? And come off as
if they're some kind of an authority on what their go'in on about. Totally
ignoring the obvious, that somewhere in humanity. There is a driving
force against Christ and the wisdom and the truth that is the Bible. Like
some engine of hate, constantly running the idea that it isn't cool to read
the word of God and believe in Christ. I'm glad my Father in Heaven gave
me the sight I have to see beyond all that crap. That so many seem willing
to follow blindly like a peck full of perfect Pinnochios. I mean wake the hell
up will ya?

originally posted by: DexteramLucifer
I think you meant to say that this is YOUR truth. Not mine, not his over there and not hers down the road.

Truth is truth. It doesn't belong to anyone.

originally posted by: DexteramLucifer
What you believe is your truth and yours alone

What is believed is called "beliefs". What is actually known is called "truth".

originally posted by: DexteramLucifer
so please stop with the whole "since you don't believe what I do, your view on things is wrong" routine.

This is not about what I "believe" but what Jesus said in The Sermon of The Mount and how the 'do what thou wilt' philosophy and the 'Christ is a copy of pagan gods' theory does not fit with that.

originally posted by: DexteramLucifer
what is causing a major portion of the populace to have such a disdain for christians nowadays. Remember.....Respect begets Respect

Yes, Respect begets respect.

I am with my respectful behavior.

I am not speaking angrily towards anyone, nor am I saying no one else's perspective doesn't matter. All responses here are appreciated. I'm simply showing The Teachings of Christ as given on The Sermon on The Mount and what it is (The Sermon on The Mount) and what it is not ('do what thou wilt' , 'Christ myth).

a reply to: FlyersFan

Yeah, as I said before, defence is accepted if the translation is taken to be 'murder'.

However I question the honouring of people who invaded/attacked other countries (the vast majority of modern western military history), in regard to biblical principles. Joining the armed forces in a Western country pretty much guarantees you'll be the aggressor. Although I would argue that 'turn the other cheek' could well constitute to not defending oneself.

It's incredible sad, and I will grieve for the lost and suffering, but 'Christians' honouring that behaviour is hypocritical.

And the world knows we don't need more violent, hypocritical 'Christians'.

a reply to: BombDefined

And the world knows we don't need more violent, hypocritical 'Christians'.

You very simply can not be a violent person and be a Christian.
You can be violent and claim Christianity. But Christians follow
Christs example closer than that and he barely showed any anger
but once. Hypocritical, well most people are.

a reply to: arpgme


I just wanted to add a couple of things here.

First of all, all of your biblical quotes about forgiveness are from the New Testament and centers around Jesus. This is all very different from the sentiments of the OT god. So to say there is no pagan gods with the forgiveness of your god is a bit of a mixed statement.

Second, "Do what thou wilt" (as used in Thelema, where it was coined), does not mean to go out and do what you want with impunity. It's actually quite the opposite. It means to seek out your true will in life and pursue it, even in spite of your ego's wishes. It's a very noble directive and is almost the complete opposite of hedonism. Think of it as a grown-up version of what we say to kids when we tell them "follow your dreams".

True, the Ayn Rand religion (Anton Satanism) adopted it but they are just as confused by the meaning as Christians are.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: immoralist

Yes Christians seem to view questioning their beliefs as attacks on them when in reality, questioning the belief and the subsequent search for an answer should strengthen that faith if it was true. Yet instead, we see time and again, Christians adopting the persecution complex when their beliefs are questioned. Maybe if they had more proof than a silly book written by goat herders as their evidence, like the geologic record, ancient artifacts, etc then people would be more apt to believe them. And then as always, I maintain that if the message that Christians spew was so holy and divine then it should speak for itself, the very message should enlighten someone and all would believe EXACTLY the same since it was divine and therefore not open to interpretation. Instead men can interpret this message millions of different ways, some good, some bad and we have the Christianity of today.

Its been my experience, here anyway, that most of the criticisms of christianity on doctrinal grounds are weak. They don't even constitute what an honest secular scholar would consider criticism. And that's coming from a person that has taken college level classes in christianity at both christian and liberal secular schools.

For example expecting christianity to be a solid mass of agreement is not even something that the bible teaches but rather teaches about false apostles, folks crafty to use scripture for any number of reasons, false prophets, false Christ's, spiritually deaf people and the list goes on. If you obviously don't understand this then how can you be so disappointed and then in the same breath accuse christians of having a persecution complex? It looks like these accusations of persecution complex are simply compensation tactics on the part of "critics" who are fairly dogmatic themselves.

originally posted by: Cuervo
a reply to: arpgme


I just wanted to add a couple of things here.

First of all, all of your biblical quotes about forgiveness are from the New Testament and centers around Jesus. This is all very different from the sentiments of the OT god. So to say there is no pagan gods with the forgiveness of your god is a bit of a mixed statement.

This idea in one form or another floats around. The truth is the OT God as He is called was quite the forgiver and longsuffering in addition to being an ass kicker. And Jesus Himself even said some things in the same vain the "OT" guy spoke.