ANOTHER university stops students from handing out Constitution

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
Wait, are you suggesting that people shouldn't voice their dissatisfactions and just accept the status quo? Because that is COMPLETELY against the American way.

No, I'm saying that this web site has a similar policy, so if someone is really that against this type of thing, they would probably want to avoid this site.

Depends on what kind of solicitation you are pushing. The very idea of a forum is a place where people can solicit their ideas and opinions. So in this regard, solicitation is perfectly acceptable here. The solicitation the T&C of this site is referring to is advertising a product or service. The solicitation the article in the OP is talking about is the former kind of solicitation.

This is pretty interesting:

Administrators further clarified their level of respect for students’ free speech rights, making comments like, “This isn’t really the ’60s anymore,” and “people can’t really protest like that anymore,” according to the Foundation for Individual Rights in Education.

So it was okay for the hippies to be loud and have free speech and all that in the 1960s, but now that thes same communist dirtbags run things, they don't want anyone having a dissenting voice?

Gotcha.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Yes, but there are other limits placed on speech.

I also understand that a college campus is not the same as a private forum and all that, but they do have the right to implement their own policies.

I'm not sure of the legality of it, but I have seen it said that just because a space is used by a public institution doesn't mean that it is a public area.

or!!!!!!!!!.....trash and litter is the concern. sometimes the simplest answer is the correct one.

a reply to: daskakik

But see because of this policy, the college has effectively stifled the students' right to protest. How can a group of activists get in the face of people they are trying to educate if you place limits on the way, how, and place they can protest? The article mentions free speech zones (which are mentioned to be at the edge of the campus and are frequently flooded), who is going to go there to listen to people protest in their free time? Most people will just avoid those places. These limits are reducing the impact that protest can have.

Bill of Rights

Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

The first isn't just about prohibiting free speech, it is also about limiting it. And this is clearly limiting our free speech.

For more fun reading, here is the 9th amendment:

Amendment IX

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

You know, the administrators who implemented and enforced this draconian policy would have known these things if they had read the material the students were handing out.

originally posted by: jimmyx
or!!!!!!!!!.....trash and litter is the concern. sometimes the simplest answer is the correct one.

Don't be silly. If that was the reason for implementing these stupid rules, the administrators would have said as much. Instead, they said this:

“It’s not about your rights in this case, it’s about the University policy that you can’t approach people,” said Ellen Kusano, director of Student Affairs, according to the complaint.

Which as I just pointed out in my previous post is a violation of the 9th amendment.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

My point was that it happens here and members just accept it and those that didn't have found the door.

But, those administrators are not congress making any law and are instead putting into effect policies that govern a private area.

a reply to: daskakik

It's a public university not a private one. Protest at universities is one of the key ways that we achieve change in this country. The administrators are obviously aware of this, since they acknowledged that this isn't the 60's anymore. And I cannot stress this enough, it is a public university, paid with public tax money. Therefore these administrators are there at the expense of the taxpayer. They fall under the same rules as congress as far as making rules like this.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
..Bill of Rights

excerpt - Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. - end excerpt

...

I am with you in general terms.
As a "public institution", with specific focus on - 'funded by tax dollars & regulated by federal, state or other such laws', it does not seem right or fitting that said institution can implement policies that run cross-grain to the fundamental law/s of the land.

On the other hand - I am wondering what kind of leeway they might count on with the language highlighted in Yellow, above.

a reply to: WanDash

That comes down to legal precedent set by the Supreme Court in similar cases.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

They fall under the same rules as congress as far as making rules like this.

Like I said, I have read otherwise.

Honestly, I don't know if this is true or not but, personally, I can see why it wouldn't apply.

originally posted by: daskakik
a reply to: Krazysh0t

They fall under the same rules as congress as far as making rules like this.

Like I said, I have read otherwise.

Honestly, I don't know if this is true or not but, personally, I can see why it wouldn't apply.

You read wrong:

Colleges and Universities

As state entities, public institutions must conform to constitutional provisions that prohibit the state from discriminating and from denying constitutional rights. Thus, much of the law of public institutions stems from constitutional amendments such as the following:

-the Free Speech Clause of the First Amendment, which guarantees that the government will not interfere with Freedom of Speech

-the Free Exercise Clause of the First Amendment, which ensures that the government will not interfere with or outlaw religious expression

-the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment, which prohibits the government from endorsing or establishing a state religion

-the equal protection clause of the Fourteenth Amendment, which guarantees that a state will enforce its laws equally with respect to all persons, with certain exceptions

-the due process clause of the Fourteenth Amendment, which requires the state to provide certain procedural safeguards before depriving an individual of a liberty or property interest. State-run institutions also are subject to state and often federal law.

originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: Krazysh0t



the idea of freedom is abhorrent to some people.



The Constitution exemplifies the very thing that many are against.

Individuality.

Self determination.



These people are cowards that would rather rest in the bosom of government security than embrace the responsibility that freedom carries.

Thanks from yours truly and also beyond the grave. My dad did the
Pacific Theatre and was in the second duck to hit Bougainville. He
had a tuba on and the M1 carbine was at the moment of debarkation
slung around his shoulder... because some nimrod with two stars on his
collar thought "band on the beach will get the boys motivated."
Cushy job them musicians, eh?

This is all part of supporting the students' POV because they're
motivated thank God-- and those progressives running the schools now
deserve something or other that would get me immediately banned
for describing.

I'm lucky to be here at all, and thankful for everyone's service and
sacrifices. Idealogies be damned, the last time I heard this is Patriots
Day and those PC administrators ain't gettin' it.
I'm also no brewer... but may their shackles later cut them into alertness.

Rules are rules... all this amendment bs is getting annoying, this is why people don't respect it.

No one's rights where violated. Right's are protected from criminal prosecutions, not administrative penalties. The Constitution shouldn't even apply to Hawaii if you want to get scholarly with respect to the root's of law. The United States unlawfully annexed Hawaii under a coup d'état by those who had no right to the land.

originally posted by: igor12675
The heads of that university are traitors to your country and shoud stand trial for treason!

Treason is an act which threatens the direct continuity of government.

originally posted by: ScientiaFortisDefendit
This is pretty interesting:

Administrators further clarified their level of respect for students’ free speech rights, making comments like, “This isn’t really the ’60s anymore,” and “people can’t really protest like that anymore,” according to the Foundation for Individual Rights in Education.

So it was okay for the hippies to be loud and have free speech and all that in the 1960s, but now that thes same communist dirtbags run things, they don't want anyone having a dissenting voice?



Gotcha.

This is exactly the reason for Jefferson's comment of "every twenty-five
years." It seems when the revolutionaries through great pain win
and become the Status Quo, the rot begins again... requiring that also
regularly quoted rinse and reset.
"This earth is sour." Stephen King, from Pet Sematary. Different
context, but appropriate to this one. I see choking trees everywhere.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
You read wrong:

No, I just read something else. By the way:

As state entities, public institutions must conform to constitutional provisions that prohibit the state from discriminating and from denying constitutional rights. Thus, much of the law of public institutions stems from constitutional amendments such as the following:

"stems from constitutional amendments" doesn't mean that they are fully subject to them and the same source states:

U.S. colleges and universities are governed by many of the same laws that regulate the rest of U.S. society. In addition, they have generated a unique body of law.

of course "a unique body of law" being obviously unique.

This reminds me of how the government corrals protesters instead of dealing with the issues themselves. Which just goes to show you that protesting the government rarely works, because they simply tell you that your right to demonstrate only exists in this small area. This is ridiculous. I have stated over and over again that our rights mean nothing to the government if they don't wish us to have them at certain times and under certain conditions. They want you to think you have rights, and you do, as long as you don't cross those who are in charge. And apparently this doesn't go for just the government, but university officials as well.

This is why I have reiterated my belief multiple times on ATS that the 2nd amendment is the only recourse that will be available for the restoration of democracy at some point in the future. Any other recourse the people think they have is just an illusion.

It doesn't matter what they were handing out. Unless you are prepared to allow every nutbag cult and political group to roam the campus while harassing the students, you have to have restrictions. I would wager that many outraged over this would have a different view if it was Scientology harassing the students and handing out material.