The bible is the bait and hook the "devil" uses to get you.

a reply to: adjensen

As I said earlier, I do not wish to enter into yet another argument about reincarnation,

That's fine, but you can't just post statements as "facts" and expect them to go unchallenged. You don't have to reply to me, but I have every right to call you out.

particularly with someone who just makes up facts like "the Pharisees and Apostles believed in reincarnation"

There you go again, dismissing and assuming the final authority to judge what is fact and what is not! Please stop trying to undermine my integrity by calling me a liar.

Pharisees believed in reincarnation according to Josephus.

But then as to the two other orders at first mentioned, the Pharisees are those who are esteemed most skillful in the exact explication of their laws, and introduce the first sect. These ascribe all to fate [or providence], and to God, and yet allow, that to act what is right, or the contrary, is principally in the power of men, although fate does co-operate in every action. They say that all souls are incorruptible, but that the souls of good men only are removed into other bodies, - but that the souls of bad men are subject to eternal punishment. Josephus War Book II

The apostles believed in reincarnation according to the Bible.

Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind? John 9:2

Whom do men say that I, the son of man, am?" the disciples reply, "Some say that thou art John the Baptist; some say Elias; and others Jeremias, or one of the prophets

Justin Martyr's Dialogue with Trypho confirms that reincarnation was still be taught among the Pythagoreans and the Platonists, some of whom were Jews and some of whom were Essene.

but my point was not the off-topic reincarnation, rather the on-topic "was the God of the Israelites Satan/evil/the Demi-urge", the answer to which I gave in the bit that you quoted, but either didn't read or didn't understand.

in the bit that you quoted, but either didn't read or didn't understand.

No, I just over quoted you. Doesn't matter, the early Christian Gnostic believed in reincarnation. There are many Christians today who don't believe the Old testament God is the same God that Jesus called "father".

all this confusion is quickly dispelled if you realize that jehovah of the old testament is three different gods, none of which is the holy spirit. the holy spirit doesn't come to the forefront till the death and resurrection of jesus. one of those jehovahs in the old testament, is actually satan, the god of this world and the other two are jesus and the heavenly father. since all three have been smooshed together as if they were a trinity in the old testament, people have assumed they were one god, making the most incomprehensible decisions, repeatedly. that's because they are not familar with how the words for god are used in the old testament and how the information in the bible is contained also, in even older texts where the 3 gods data is actually derived from. once you learn that, the rest gets much easier to understand.

so when i say i think the bible is absolutely accurate, i mean just that: it's historically valid. those things happened. but, and here's the clincher, how you are lead to receive the words, particularly after thousands of years of interpretations and schools of thought, causes you to put emphasis on the wrong messages in the verses.

a reply to: Akragon

IF that's the case Pick a flavour and explain why the rest are wrong

If it leads you to Christ, the only wrong that can happen is by your own
choice. Of your own accord you choose to follow him from there, or not.
And let no reasonable man say, that we have no freedom of choice.
Up to that point we do. The rest depends on you.

Yes I do.

Here are some of my own reasoning but this guy did some research on the subject

a reply to: randyvs

SO you're saying all Christianity leads to Christ despite their disagreements...

Which is a mighty broad Path... not a narrow one, as that Graph a few pages back shows...

Ain't that nifty

a reply to: Akragon

You think if you choose to follow Christ it's a broad path?

You may want to rephrase that so, I'll wait.

I'm pretty sure all Christianity points to the cross
guy.

originally posted by: randyvs
a reply to: Akragon

You think if you choose to follow Christ it's a broad path?

You may want to rephrase that so, I'll wait.

I think if one Chooses any organized religion especially Christianity... it is a VERY broad path...

Just because one chooses a label for themselves does not mean they Follow his words...

a reply to: Akragon

Is it set in stone how one must view a Christian church?

I see Any Christian church simply as a vehicle that let's
us off at a very narrow path. When was the last time you
tried to follow Christ? Describe the path for me AK?

originally posted by: randyvs
a reply to: Akragon

Is it set in stone how must view a Christian church?

I see Any Christian church simply as a vehicle that let's
us off at a very narrow path. When was the last time you
tried to follow Christ? Describe the path for me AK?

Every day of my life for the past 10 or so years actually... How many so called Christians do you know that display Christ like qualities.... I can't say I've ever met one, but im sure theres a few...

Perhaps instead of explaining it I will let him do it for me....

27 But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,

28 Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.

29 And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloak forbid not to take thy coat also.

30 Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again.

31 And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.

32 For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them.

33 And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same.

34 And if ye lend to them of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again.

35 But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.

36 Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.

37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:

38 Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.

originally posted by: Akragon

originally posted by: randyvs
a reply to: Akragon

You think if you choose to follow Christ it's a broad path?

You may want to rephrase that so, I'll wait.

I think if one Chooses any organized religion especially Christianity... it is a VERY broad path...

Just because one chooses a label for themselves does not mean they Follow his words...

Unfortunately that is a criticism often leveled at Christianity (and rightfully so). The problem is that people who make that criticism don't fully grasp that it is impossible to fully please God while you are on this earth.

Romans 3:23
New International Version (NIV)
23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God

The best we can do is try. So basically we are left with the philosophical question of whether or not we should even bother. I believe we should, and that the way we should go about trying, is through Christ. That doesn't mean that becoming a Christian makes you perfect or any less prone to sin (it doesn't, at all). Christians are fallible, even if they believe their religion is infallible. They will stumble, they will fall, and they will struggle like anyone else.

Nobody can be Christlike 100% of the time, because nobody else is the Christ.

a reply to: DeadSeraph

Honestly I think Paul and his writing is a major contributor to the faults in Christianity...

Perhaps all have sinned, this is true... but as I've said many times before, IF one believes in Jesus that means they listen to what HE said... which I reiterated in my last reply by quoting Luke 6...

That passage is the most important passage in the entire book, and I would say from my experience most Christians ignore it... which is sad really

a reply to: Akragon

Wow, throw scripture at me, which not only doesn't answer my
question. But seems to define you as a hypocrite as well. And that
just puts you in the same boat with the rest of us. But what led you to
follow Christ, your girlfriend?

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: DeadSeraph

Honestly I think Paul and his writing is a major contributor to the faults in Christianity...

Perhaps all have sinned, this is true... but as I've said many times before, IF one believes in Jesus that means they listen to what HE said... which I reiterated in my last reply by quoting Luke 6...

That passage is the most important passage in the entire book, and I would say from my experience most Christians ignore it... which is sad really

I would agree with you here. But I don't think most Christians ignore these teachings so much as they are fallible, and like anyone else they can let the grind of day to day life get to them. That doesn't diminish one ounce from the truth of those words, or how Christians interpret them. But in essence, I agree with the basis of what you are saying, and I think we could all do better in life by trying to follow those words more strictly in our day to day interactions with others.

originally posted by: randyvs
a reply to: Akragon

Wow, throw scripture at me, which not only doesn't answer my
question. But seems to define you as a hypocrite as well. And that
just puts you in the same boat with rest of us. But what led you to
follow Christ, your girlfriend?

How exactly does that make me a hypocrite?

I don't know what the hell your issue is with me lately but I find you to be quite insulting in the past several months...

The bible doesn't belong exclusively to Christians...

His words led me to follow him... Christianity kept me away from it... just read your own posts and you can figure out why...

geez man... who pissed in your cornflakes

it wasn't me..... just so you know


Oh... and my girlfriend didn't know that passage when I showed it to her.... just as most of you Christians don't

a reply to: Akragon

Excuse me ? AK I have no beef with you at all.
And my reference to your girlfriend is legit by
my recall according to what you told me in a
pervious thread. That's all.

And that which Christ said is a big part of Christianity.

a reply to: randyvs

So again... how does that make me a hypocrite?


OR are you just tossing words around?

IF you actually read my thread on my issues with the girlfriend you'd know I disagree with her beliefs... what would make you suggest she led me to Jesus? I've been studying scripture for over 10 years now and I met her 8 months ago

a reply to: Akragon

Everything Jesus did was for the effect, he didn't have a bunch of catchphrases he thought of beforehand he waited for the right time to use, each of those points applies to THE SPECIFIC PERSON THAT HE SAID IT TO, basically they, in the place they were at that moment, were "asking for it". Sometimes his advice may apply to one person while not applying to another, or it'll apply to one person some times and not other times, or it will apply to everyone within earshot as directly implied in #27. It depends on the situation and the person, if their is no subtext missing then that means these particular people (or possibly in some instances their kin) could follow Jesus advice and never go wrong because the possibilities of their futures were limited to having that advice obeyed always being righteous. Obviously everything Jesus said wasn't documented in the NT.

Christianity isn't about trying to act like Jesus, it's about loyalty to God and making an effort to serve God with every thought and action you make, if utter submission to any garbage society throws at you is what is demanded for your service than that's what it takes. For others the loyal thing to do may be going to war. If you find that you're not in a position in which you can serve God with your action then you have been led astray and you must find a way back in, otherwise you are doomed. Those who look earnestly can find what they are looking for, everyone except for those who God damned as a consequence of their own actions. For those who have been damned by God their is no hope, their hearts are sealed and they might as well satisfy themselves sensually until they meet their judgement because their opposition is just a waste of their time.

Jesus was immaculately particular with his choice of words, he didn't have to deliberate, be wise in how you take his words to heart.

a reply to: Akragon

I'm not just calling you a hypocrite. Read the damn post over
and skip getting all but hurt.

And you told me previously you didn't agree with your girlfriends Christanity.
But you repected her beliefs just the same. there was no information of
how long you've studied or any of that. So naturally I was asking that to
remind you of that conversation. Didn't mean to sink any teeth brother.
Not at all.

You seem to be trying divide Christ and Christianity. Are you ? If so join the rest
of us hypocrites. Do you really get all bent at being called a hypocrite? Because I couldn't
care less when you call me that. Or anyone else for that matter.

a reply to: On7a7higher7plane

So which part in that passage does not apply to those attempting to follow Jesus...

this should be interesting...

a reply to: On7a7higher7plane

Those who look earnestly can find what they are looking for, everyone except for those who God damned as a consequence of their own actions. For those who have been damned by God their is no hope, their hearts are sealed and they might as well satisfy themselves sensually until they meet their judgement because their opposition is just a waste of their time.

Whoa.

What
Ever

Some loving boss you have there.
That's lame.