Kim Jong-un smiles when seeing elite fighter squadron in combat ready condition

a reply to: Zaphod58

I'm sure that in a combat scenario some of these NK aircraft would disintegrate trying a high-G maneuver just because of their age and lack of high maintenance. You've mentioned yourself how often the USAF sends in the aircraft for airframe retro fits.

I don't believe that the DPRK does that a lot.

a reply to: TritonTaranis

Have you ever truly looked at the backbone of the US inventory? It's in bad shape. These J-7s are at least as good as the current US legacy fleet. A few years ago the average F-15 age was in the mid to late 20s, they were limited to 7Gs, and mach 1.6 or so.

At the same time, the F-16 fleet was in its early 20s, and 25% of the fleet had cracks in either the wing root area, or aft bulkhead.

These two are the mainstay of the Air Force fleet, and what the biggest part of the air superiority mission is going to fall upon.

a reply to: TDawgRex

That's just it though, they don't fly as much so they don't require as much care.

Gents, I know you're too busy looking at the hardware but look at the faces of the people around him. So tense for the most part. They look like they're # scared anything doesn't go to plan. Read.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: TritonTaranis

Have you ever truly looked at the backbone of the US inventory? It's in bad shape. These J-7s are at least as good as the current US legacy fleet. A few years ago the average F-15 age was in the mid to late 20s, they were limited to 7Gs, and mach 1.6 or so.

At the same time, the F-16 fleet was in its early 20s, and 25% of the fleet had cracks in either the wing root area, or aft bulkhead.

These two are the mainstay of the Air Force fleet, and what the biggest part of the air superiority mission is going to fall upon.

But you're forgetting many other important factors

Pitting the them against legacy fighters and weighing up its agility and conditions is but one very small part in this

What about avionics suit, armaments, ?

Numbers?

The other weapons systems and platform it will come up against,

I don't disagree it could be used for a quick sneak attack but I doubt many will get through, or many will get back or that they would be willing to do it again,

It's an out dated aircraft a not of much concern to anybody these days

It's like a cannon, still deadly, not much of a threat to a modern army tho

a reply to: TritonTaranis

I'm not saying that it's going to decimate our forces or anything, Just that we shouldn't underestimate them because they're based on old aircraft.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: Sammamishman

Other than the avionics, its actually probably better than the current legacy fleet in our inventory, certainly at least as good. With their age, and limitations imposed by it, and the fuselage issues some have, they're limited in what they can do.

I always assumed that was because our missile systems where better, fire beyond the horizon etc.

You could fire that from a ford pinto and still take it out before it got with in range? or am I mistaken?

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: SLAYER69

Well considering older aircraft have managed to take down the most advanced aircraft built in DACT I wouldn't frown on it just for its age. If they use it right it can create nightmares for an opposing force.

Are they going to use them as *cough* RAM jets ..boom boom
ha ha

Maybe this is why Australia just ordered 58 F-35 JSFs.

a reply to: benrl

BVR kill percentage sucks. Israel, which has fired more missiles BVR than just about anyone else has well under a 25% kill rate in BVR combat.

originally posted by: camo1010
Maybe this is why Australia just ordered 58 F-35 JSFs.

No .. That's to deter the Chinese,
I would say.

Lol...
Im certain there are American Militias that are better equipped. Aviation or not.

I only see two jets.

Is that the equivalent to a squadron by North Korea's standards?

On a side note: That little man just oozes an air of evil in my opinion.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: benrl

BVR kill percentage sucks. Israel, which has fired more missiles BVR than just about anyone else has well under a 25% kill rate in BVR combat.

Still the legacy fighters could send off a volly breaking enemy Formations in BVR and picking off the poor trained North Korea pilots BVR doesn't just serve as first look first kill advantages

Still don't see them as much of a threat it's old tech which hasn't seen much in the way of upgrades

Avionics goes a very long way

The North Korean MIGs are at a disadvantage in every way

No doubt they could get through and do some damage but that'll short lived and minimal

originally posted by: TritonTaranis

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: benrl

BVR kill percentage sucks. Israel, which has fired more missiles BVR than just about anyone else has well under a 25% kill rate in BVR combat.

Still the legacy fighters could send off a volly breaking enemy Formations in BVR and picking off the poor trained North Korea pilots BVR doesn't just serve as first look first kill advantages

Still don't see them as much of a threat it's old tech which hasn't seen much in the way of upgrades

Avionics goes a very long way

The North Korean MIGs are at a disadvantage in every way

No doubt they could get through and do some damage but that'll short lived and minimal

And where do you think the DPRK airforce will be deployed? Inside of the DPRK, where the DPRK army is deployed over the entire landmass. It's not like the American fighters would just roll right in, pick off DPRK fighters, then leave without being molested for flying over hostile territory.

They may not look like much to you, but they would be useful for missions inside of their territory, and they would be all the more effective with ground elements pinpointing targets for them.

a reply to: Vovin

Exactly. That's what people need to think about. This is a fighter that can be dispersed to remote airfields, and use GCI links. They're not going to stop Allied fighters cold, but they can hurt any fighter force in the early days of a conflict.

Usually in an air combat situation with the new fighter designs, the pilot that launches the missiles first wins. That fact alone makes the North Korean fighters useless fuel guzzlers.

I don't know how this got into a technical discourse about the merits of the aircraft. Kim Jong-UN would likely smile when a bowl of jelly is put in front of him.
Apart from that, they ain't got any fecking fuel.

originally posted by: Vovin

originally posted by: TritonTaranis

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: benrl

BVR kill percentage sucks. Israel, which has fired more missiles BVR than just about anyone else has well under a 25% kill rate in BVR combat.

Still the legacy fighters could send off a volly breaking enemy Formations in BVR and picking off the poor trained North Korea pilots BVR doesn't just serve as first look first kill advantages

Still don't see them as much of a threat it's old tech which hasn't seen much in the way of upgrades

Avionics goes a very long way

The North Korean MIGs are at a disadvantage in every way

No doubt they could get through and do some damage but that'll short lived and minimal

And where do you think the DPRK airforce will be deployed? Inside of the DPRK, where the DPRK army is deployed over the entire landmass. It's not like the American fighters would just roll right in, pick off DPRK fighters, then leave without being molested for flying over hostile territory.

They may not look like much to you, but they would be useful for missions inside of their territory, and they would be all the more effective with ground elements pinpointing targets for them.

Ehh

Under what circumstances would the South Koreans and US need to fly into North Korea looking to destroy obsolete fighters which stick out like a sore thumb on radar?

They're going to find most of there airfields and MIGs are out of action within the first few opening weeks from cruse missiles strikes and bombing missions

You're talking about a suicide mission that'll never occur, your assuming military commanders are stupid enough to fly legacy fighters over NK without naturalising its air defences or severely crippling it enough to even begin to think of flying over with stealth bombers

Just not going to happen without air superiority

It's nothing to do with looking like much to me, it's more to do with massive odds and facts, if these MIGs flew over the DMZ they could get through with a well planned low altitude fast attack, hit some nice targets and kill a few hundred, but they're not going home... not a chance, if they be pitted up against legacy fighters they don't have a single advantage

To military commanders... I'd bet they wouldn't even bat an eyelid about these possibilities

originally posted by: eManym
Usually in an air combat situation with the new fighter designs, the pilot that launches the missiles first wins. That fact alone makes the North Korean fighters useless fuel guzzlers.

In theory... it's slightly more technical and complicated than that

But saying that I'm not sure these old MIGs have electronic attack and counter measures to deploy which would mean fire and forget got slightly more lol again

As I said the MIG doesn't have a single advantage over even old legacy fighters, bit then again the MIG has a lot of threats to overcome before the old legacy fighters even get play time with them