MH370 missing (Part 2)

originally posted by: earthling42
Either they have more information which has not been released, and which has helped them to calculate the speed after the aircraft turned towards the south, or the current search area is simply not where it has crashed.

What current search?

The Bluffin 21 is out of service. Again.

originally posted by: Psynic
If doppler effect had any factual basis for pinpointing aircraft the technique would be fully developed by the defence industry long ago.

It doesn't pinpoint the aircraft, you've misunderstood something. The defense industry does use Doppler radar and this explains what it does and this is all Inmarsat claimed the Doppler effect does:

Doppler Radar

the Doppler effect. Most modern radar systems use this principle into Doppler radar and pulse-Doppler radar systems (weather radar, military radar, etc...). The Doppler effect is only able to determine the relative speed of the target along the line of sight from the radar to the target. Any component of target velocity perpendicular to the line of sight cannot be determined by using the Doppler effect alone, but it can be determined by tracking the target's azimuth over time.

So if you understand what that's saying, it doesn't pinpoint the aircraft and there are multiple possible paths into the southern Indian ocean due to uncertainty about the aircraft speed. Here's an old image I saved showing 2 paths, though there could be more possible paths than the two shown, and there is probably a more recent map but it won't change the concept, even if it shows different search areas.

I consider it ludicrous to suggest a whole new form of pinpointing a target was developed just to find MH370, especially at such a propitious time.

The theory goes back to at least the 1940s and probably earlier, but of course it couldn't be done with satellites until satellites with this data were available eliminating most of the time since then. So I'm guessing this is probably the first time they both had the needed satellite data available, and needed this analysis, though if there are other reasons for not doing it earlier I'm not sure what they were.

There's absolutely nothing new or revolutionary about the concept. When they released the raw data, Inmarsat explained a number of possible sources of error, but they don't explain how they dealt with those.

a reply to: Psynic

Current search area, because they abandoned the first location where they thought it crashed

originally posted by: earthling42
a reply to: Psynic

Current search area, because they abandoned the first location where they thought it crashed

There is no "Current Search Area".

originally posted by: Arbitrageur

originally posted by: Psynic
If doppler effect had any factual basis for pinpointing aircraft the technique would be fully developed by the defence industry long ago.

It doesn't pinpoint the aircraft, you've misunderstood something. The defense industry does use Doppler radar and this explains what it does and this is all Inmarsat claimed the Doppler effect does:

Doppler Radar

the Doppler effect. Most modern radar systems use this principle into Doppler radar and pulse-Doppler radar systems (weather radar, military radar, etc...). The Doppler effect is only able to determine the relative speed of the target along the line of sight from the radar to the target. Any component of target velocity perpendicular to the line of sight cannot be determined by using the Doppler effect alone, but it can be determined by tracking the target's azimuth over time.

So if you understand what that's saying, it doesn't pinpoint the aircraft and there are multiple possible paths into the southern Indian ocean due to uncertainty about the aircraft speed. Here's an old image I saved showing 2 paths, though there could be more possible paths than the two shown, and there is probably a more recent map but it won't change the concept, even if it shows different search areas.

I consider it ludicrous to suggest a whole new form of pinpointing a target was developed just to find MH370, especially at such a propitious time.

The theory goes back to at least the 1940s and probably earlier, but of course it couldn't be done with satellites until satellites with this data were available eliminating most of the time since then. So I'm guessing this is probably the first time they both had the needed satellite data available, and needed this analysis, though if there are other reasons for not doing it earlier I'm not sure what they were.

There's absolutely nothing new or revolutionary about the concept. When they released the raw data, Inmarsat explained a number of possible sources of error, but they don't explain how they dealt with those.

I'm sorry, would you have preferred 'locate' to "pinpoint"?

I understand doppler effect and know that the Doppler Radar you mention, though fascinating, is irrelevant. IMMARSAT is not 'Doppler Radar'

PM Razak announced that IMMARSAT was able to discern the area the plane was in, specifically that it had been on the Southern end of the arc when last it was heard from, through the use of a never before tried technique of satellite signal analysis.

www.bbc.com...

He made that announcement the day before Petronas' partner, Mercedes Benz was to arrive in Kuala Lumpur along with the rest of the Formula 1 circus of billionaires, Movie Stars, Leaders of Industry, fans and the world press.

How convenient this new PROOF that the passengers must be dead and that their families might as well go home should be DISCOVERED when it was. If it hadn't come along just then, there wouldn't have been any excuse to evict the passengers families from their hotel rooms and suggest that they'd be better off waiting at home for news.

Just throwing this out there, don't know if it has been seen / posted already.

Link 21st Century Wire

Perhaps the most unsettling information in regards to the missing Boeing 777 comes from retired 35 year Delta pilot, Field McConnell, who states that since 1995, Boeing Uninterruptible Auto Pilots have been equipped in Boeing planes. This information was apparently not released until March of 2007, following a subsequent lawsuit by McConnell. The modification was reported to the FAA, NTSB and ALPA ( airline pilots association). According to McConnell’s documents, Boeing is said to have stated that by end of 2009 all Boeing planes would be fitted with the BUAP - making them impossible to manually hijack within the plane but susceptible to remote control by the military, according the flight veteran.

Don't shoot the messenger im just posting what I found, I don't know if the guy is credible or not?

Edited to add that according to reddit (no other source found yet) this wasn't installed on Mh370 "officially".

a reply to: civpop

It hasn't been proven to be installed on ANY plane. The only proof of its existence is the patent. But somehow the hundreds of people that have to know about this being on planes have been utterly silenced except for one or two.

>>
making them impossible to manually hijack within the plane but susceptible to remote control by the military, according the flight veteran.
>>

Which would put every pilot, crew, passengers at a severe risk in case of a hijacking if they're unable to comply with the demands of a hijacker. What do you think a crazed hijacker would do if he sees his demands are not/cannot be met....worse even....if he'd find out the plane is now being remote controlled..with SWAT teams just waiting when the plane then will land etc. without the pilots or the hijacker having control over the plane.

Such a system would not eliminate risk, it would CAUSE it respective exaggerate it many-fold. This is not how you de-escalate a potential hijack situation.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Yeah looked into it in more detail today, just thought id throw it in the mix anyhow :-)

a reply to: NoRulesAllowed

I'm no expert but I suppose the theory behind it was to stop planes being used like in 9/11 I'm , again, guessing that the thought process behind it was to eliminate the mass loss of life such as 9/11 and controlling where the plane is taken and having a "small" control over what happens.

The "system" to control an aircraft remotely is not some complicated contraption to be installed throughout the plane, but would consist only of a computer chip and software program.

The actual mechanism already exists in the fly-by-wire technology built into the aircraft.

The planes computer is accessed by the pilots to control the aircraft. Accessing the planes computer from a remote location is no big leap.

a reply to: Psynic

new article...looks like they are blaming the pilot again www.nydailynews.com...

quote...the pilot of the missing Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 airliner has been identified as the "chief suspect" in the plane’s disappearance by Malaysian police after they found flight simulator evidence at his home.
Investigators discovered that Capt. Zaharie Ahmad Shah had programmed a flight simulator at home to practice a flight far out at sea in the Indian Ocean and landing on an island with a short runway.
These were deleted but recovered by investigators. They also found that the captain, an outgoing individual, had made no social or work commitments for the future.


Read more: www.nydailynews.com...

a reply to: Zaphod58
Maybe BUAP is classified, and is installed in a way that aircraft mechanics are not privy to. Sort of like the HAL9000 computer from 2001 A Space Odyssey. It doesn't need to be touched by mechanics once it's installed at the Boeing assembly plant. Therefore you don't need to know about it!

originally posted by: RP2SticksOfDynamite
No BB will be recovered or even if there is one its probably fake or what is reported is not whats on it!
No plane, no debris, no floating anything which is F in impossible = Hoodwinkers!!
Said this 350 pages ago!!

yes, but they are still "researching" and thinking of new theories based on information from where?

like a guy from "Memento", they think they have a theory based on information and facts while in reality they know nothing for sure.

I know only one thing for sure - this plane will never be found - I said it in the other topic long ago.

you guys "searching for the plane" are just like Leonard:

originally posted by: Mikeultra
a reply to: Zaphod58
Maybe BUAP is classified, and is installed in a way that aircraft mechanics are not privy too. Sort of like the HAL9000 computer form 2001 A Space Odyssey. It doesn't need to be touched by mechanics once it's installed at the Boeing assembly plant. Therefore you don't need to know about it!

Please see my above post.

It has nothing to do with "mechanics"!

originally posted by: research100
a reply to: Psynic

new article...looks like they are blaming the pilot again www.nydailynews.com...

quote...the pilot of the missing Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 airliner has been identified as the "chief suspect" in the plane’s disappearance by Malaysian police after they found flight simulator evidence at his home.
Investigators discovered that Capt. Zaharie Ahmad Shah had programmed a flight simulator at home to practice a flight far out at sea in the Indian Ocean and landing on an island with a short runway.
These were deleted but recovered by investigators. They also found that the captain, an outgoing individual, had made no social or work commitments for the future.


Read more: www.nydailynews.com...

This is the same news article we are already discussing.

a reply to: Psynic

The 777 and all Boeing aircraft prior to the 787 IIRC use hydromechanical controls, not fly by wire, so yes they would require some modification.

This system also supposedly has a separate computer and power supply, separate from the aircraft.

a reply to: Mikeultra

So it never needs to be maintained, or periodically checked? That must be nice.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: Psynic

The 777 and all Boeing aircraft prior to the 787 IIRC use hydromechanical controls, not fly by wire, so yes they would require some modification.

This system also supposedly has a separate computer and power supply, separate from the aircraft.

Excuse me but the Boeing 777 is definitely fly by wire.

www.boeing.com...

a reply to: Psynic

I was attempting to amend my post when my phone flaked out. It's a mechanical column to fly by wire. I was wrong.

But of you read about the alleged BUAP, it would still require modification. It is supposed to be separate from all aircraft power and computer systems, which odd why it can't be disconnected.