UK Falklands military exercises 'provoke' Argentina

reply to post by stumason



and why do they need to do these exercises? Seems like a provocation to me.

What are the exercises provoking?
Surely Argentina isn't going to try it on again?

Come on, they aren't that dumb...are they?

Either way, as long as the people there want to be British, they shall be.

Cydonia2012
reply to post by stumason

 

and why do they need to do these exercises? Seems like a provocation to me.

Why not? It our land so we can do what we want on it.

Freeborn
Personally I think there are many reasons; sure oil and the mineral wealth in that area may be a major consideration but I don't think they are the only ones - and surprisingly not all to do with avarice and greed. At least equally as important are the facts that the locals almost to a man want to remain British and there's a hell of a lot of us here in the UK who remember all too vividly that many British servicemen paid the ultimate sacrifice to defend the islands. That means it would be political suicide for any politician to even consider discussing sovereignty with Argentina.
I suspect there's one or two other considerations as well.

I bet the argies could name the right price with our politicians, it'd be gone faster than the national assets we used to have!

Cydonia2012
reply to post by stumason

 

and why do they need to do these exercises? Seems like a provocation to me.

No more so than any military exercise in Argentina is a provocation to the Falklanders. Or, indeed, the Uruguayans .....

Are military exercise on Cape Wrath (far NW of Scotland, and held as part of Joint Warrior twice a year) provocative to the Faroe Islanders or Iceland?

SearchLightsInc
I was genuinely asking the guy a question, i know he knows his stuff, thought he could roll out the real reason why were fighting over them because im not convinced its purely because of the people on the island itself.

Freeborn has covered it quite well I think. It is important to consider, aside from any mineral wealth or what the islanders think, doing anything but defending the Falklands would be political suicide for whoever suggested it, because of the strength of feeling by the British people towards their kin. For most "men on the street", the Falklands are British and any suggestion otherwise would be met with a stern response - not least because we shed blood to do it once already.

Cydonia2012
reply to post by stumason

 

and why do they need to do these exercises? Seems like a provocation to me.

These exercise happen twice a year, have happened for years and are in concert with the local Falklands Volunteer regiment to test readiness and train. It's not like we've just announced some huge deployment of 20,000 men and a task force, at best it involves a few hundred blokes and possibly a ship or two.

reply to post by SearchLightsInc

I bet the argies could name the right price with our politicians, it'd be gone faster than the national assets we used to have!

First of all; The Argies couldn't come up with any sort of significant monetary offer for the simple reason they haven't got any money thanks to Kirchner completely screwing their economy.
Secondly; they couldn't raise any money as all recognised international credit agencies rate Argentina's credit rating as abysmal.
Thirdly; Despite the natural greedy inclination of the vast majority of our politicians I very much doubt they'd cave in to a monetary offer.

As I said before, it'd be absolute political suicide for any politician to consider even sharing sovereignty for the foreseeable future - certainly whilst there are so many of voting age who lived through The Falklands, witnessed it either at first hand or through the TV microscope. So many of us know people who served there and we watched in horror as some of them died.
Any politician considering betraying those Servicemen would not only be signing their own political death warrant there's also a good chance they'd be signing their actual death warrant.

As for why they are taking place?
Otterburn Ranges is in constant use and training exercise take place there regularly.
Doesn't mean we are going to invade Scotland if they vote for independence later this year.
Its about training the military and ensuring they are as prepared as possible in the unfortunate event they have to be deployed into a real and live conflict.
Its pretty straight forward really and no big deal at all.

Cydonia2012
reply to post by stumason

 

and why do they need to do these exercises? Seems like a provocation to me.

exercises are carried out to further train troops and battle preparedness

where else would the do it? the moon?

if Argentina wasn't buying arms and making threat over the islands they wouldn't be questioning routine deployments and excesses to go crying to the UN over, its nothing shorty of attention seeking from Argentina, nothing has changed only Argentina failing government trying to divert economy woes

Apart from the obvious reasons of retaining the Falklands as has already been suggested, there is another reason. Have a look at the global map showing the 'owned' territories of both Britain and France. These two countries alone 'fill-in' the gaps around the world where the US does not have a base or military assets. Between the US, Britain and France the world is virtually covered by military bases/assets especially at 'choke points'.

Basicaly Britain cannot do anything as a show of force against Russia so we are picking on what is practically a third world country now. Pretending we are still something of a global power lol.

originally posted by: woogleuk
reply to post by Trueman

 

I'm an ATS member, I'm British and I have high respect for the Royal family.

The problem is too many people believe everything they read on the internet without doing their own research.

The Royals suck the wealth out of the country;

The Royals are German;

The Royals are members of some elite organisation hell bent on enslaving the world and it's people;

All a load of rubbish spouted by the paranoid and republicans.

Actually 'crown lands' are administered by the government, who collect £40,000,000 a year from them, and then give some of it back to the queen for upkeep of the castles etc, which is nowhere near the amount collected, so the British government makes a profit, there is a thread somewhere on ATS about that.

a reply to: pikestaff

If I read you correctly, that was (part of) my point.

The money from crown lands goes back into the country, unless of course the Tories are pocketing it somehow, which wouldn't surprise me.

UK Falklands military exercises 'provoke' Argentina

Then maybe the UK government should stop pissing off the Argentinians? Especially considering the fact Russia just annexed Crimea from the Ukraine, it would do the Brits' government best to maintain a sense of consistency and credibility if they and their allies want to continue forward with neutering Russia. You'd think it would be the most obvious and smart thing to do (not to mention the FIRST) right after a powerful European nation gets crazy to focus every inch of your might on it politically-speaking. What is the point?

I've said it once in a previous thread,

the world and its nations are run by idiots.

originally posted by: Davian

UK Falklands military exercises 'provoke' Argentina

Then maybe the UK government should stop pissing off the Argentinians? Especially considering the fact Russia just annexed Crimea from the Ukraine, it would do the Brits' government best to maintain a sense of consistency and credibility if they and their allies want to continue forward with neutering Russia. You'd think it would be the most obvious and smart thing to do (not to mention the FIRST) right after a powerful European nation gets crazy to focus every inch of your might on it politically-speaking. What is the point?



I've said it once in a previous thread,



the world and its nations are run by idiots.

Pissing off the Argies - we dont go out of our way to do it. Perhaps they should stop being pissed off by a group of islands they have no claim over whose only ever inhabitants are British?

originally posted by: Bellor
Basicaly Britain cannot do anything as a show of force against Russia so we are picking on what is practically a third world country now. Pretending we are still something of a global power lol.

All the shouting, screaming and posturing is coming from the Government of Argentina at the moment, which currently has the military power to do, um, nowt. FFS, they let one of their ships sink at anchor in port.

originally posted by: Bellor
Basicaly Britain cannot do anything as a show of force against Russia so we are picking on what is practically a third world country now. Pretending we are still something of a global power lol.

Who's picking on who, now?

These exercise are held at least twice a year, every year and have been going for years.

As for the "pretending" at being a global power, we are. We're part of a select group of nations (around 4) that has any kind of force projection. Compare this to Argentina who can't even get their ships away from the wharf.

a reply to: Bellor

Basicaly Britain cannot do anything as a show of force against Russia so we are picking on what is practically a third world country now. Pretending we are still something of a global power lol.

What have current events in Russia got to do with scheduled military exercises in the South Atlantic?

We are still a global power - which is why the rest of the world are always keen to gain our support.
Granted, successive governments have run down our military capability but, and its a massive but, we can still hold our own on the international stage.

a reply to: Davian

Then maybe the UK government should stop pissing off the Argentinians?

They are military exercises and are done for a reason; to train and prepare the military in readiness for potential combat. Every nation does it and not to do so would be incredibly stupid and highly negligent.

Perhaps Kirchner should stop using The Falklands as a convenient deflection away from her disastrous domestic policies that are crippling Argentina.
And maybe she'd gain more respect if she in turn respected one of the basic principles the United Nations was founded on; The Right to Self-Determination.

Especially considering the fact Russia just annexed Crimea from the Ukraine,....

How on earth is what is happening in Crimea got anything to do with military exercises in the South Atlantic?

.....it would do the Brits' government best to maintain a sense of consistency and credibility if they and their allies want to continue forward with neutering Russia.

Why?
'We' get demonised and criticised for meddling in other countries domestic issues....and 'we' get exactly the same if 'we' don't - what would YOU have the British government do with regard to Crimea and the Ukraine?

But again, where is the relevance to this threads topic?

the world and its nations are run by idiots.

Of course they are.....and whose fault is that?

And high up on that list of idiots is the Argentinian President Cristina Kirchner.

Perhaps Kirchner should stop using The Falklands as a convenient deflection away from her disastrous domestic policies that are crippling Argentina.
And maybe she'd gain more respect if she in turn respected one of the basic principles the United Nations was founded on; The Right to Self-Determination.

Pissing off the Argies - we dont go out of our way to do it. Perhaps they should stop being pissed off by a group of islands they have no claim over whose only ever inhabitants are British?

en.wikipedia.org...

Controversy exists over the Falklands' discovery and subsequent colonisation by Europeans. At various times, the islands have had French, British, Spanish, and Argentine settlements. Britain reasserted its rule in 1833, although Argentina maintained its claim to the islands. In 1982, after Argentina's invasion of the islands, the two-month undeclared Falklands War resulted in the surrender of Argentine forces and the return of the islands to British administration.

en.wikipedia.org...

Reaction in the United Nations
On 3 April 1982 the United Nations Security Council comprising the 5 permanent members and the 10 elected members (Poland, Spain, Ireland, Panama, Guyana, Japan, Jordan, Uganda, Zaire, and Togo) passed the Resolution 502 demanding an immediate withdrawal of all Argentine forces from the islands and called on the governments of Argentina and the United Kingdom to seek a diplomatic solution to the situation and refrain from further military action.

And yet...

en.wikipedia.org...

On 5 April, the British government dispatched a naval task force to engage the Argentine Navy and Air Force before making an amphibious assault on the islands.

It is pretty obvious the aggressors here, and the ones who actually did not listen to the UN, were the British government. Also, a brief history lesson for ya!

en.wikipedia.org...

sovereignty of the islands was transferred to Argentina from Spain upon independence in 1810

Source

the British dropped their claim by acquiescence by not protesting the many years of pacific and effective Spanish occupation, after the abandonment of Port Egmont.

SOURCE 1
SOURCE 2
SOURCE 3

in addition to uti possidetis juris, sovereignty was obtained when the islands were formally claimed in Argentina's name in 1820, followed by Argentina's confirmation and effective occupation from 1826 to 1833.

SOURCE 1
SOURCE 2
SOURCE 3 - Document DL Link

the establishment of British de facto rule on the Falklands in 1833 (referred to as an "act of force" by Argentina) was illegal under international law, and this has been noted and protested by Argentina on 17 June 1833 and repeated in 1841, 1849, 1884, 1888, 1908, 1927, 1933, 1946, and yearly thereafter in the UN.

SOURCE 1
SOURCE 2

self-determination is further rendered inapplicable due to the disruption of the territorial integrity of Argentina that began with a forceful removal of its authorities in the islands in 1833, thus there is a failure to comply with an explicit requirement of UN Resolution 1514 (XV).

S1
S2

France was the first country to establish de facto control in the Falkland Islands, with the foundation of Port Saint Louis in East Falkland by French nobleman, Louis Antoine de Bougainville, in 1764. The French colony consisted of a small fort and some settlements with a population of around 250. The Islands were named after the Breton port of St. Malo as the Îles Malouines, which remains the French name for the islands. In 1766, France agreed to leave the islands to Spain, with Spain reimbursing de Bougainville and the St. Malo Company for the cost of the settlement.[1][2] France insisted that Spain maintain the colony in Port Louis and thus prevent Britain from claiming the title to the Islands and Spain agreed.[3]

I wish to continue further, but I've wasted enough time on what should be obvious. The Argentinian government has a total of 33 sources to their claims, the British government has a mere 17 (check the link to it if you don't believe me). So with the most sources to back up their claims, I believe the Argentinian government does indeed win this debate. It's time for the British Monarchy to give up their claims on overseas territories, allow their Empire to fall once and for all, and get with the 20th century program. Imperialist doctrines are a thing of the past and should not be encouraged. Besides, the islands are, what 300 miles away from the Argentinian coast? They're in Argentinian waters dude.

How would the US government feel if the UK suddenly started doing war games in New England?

a reply to: Davian

Nope.
It is British soil worked by British hands for generations. If the argies want it let em try and take it again.

a reply to: Davian

Besides, the islands are, what 300 miles away from the Argentinian coast? They're in Argentinian waters dude.

Your whole post is just so wrong but I picked this bit to illustrate.

The English Channel varies from 20 to 150 miles so I guess, based on your opinion, that it belongs to France and Belgium!

The British will just have to move so the French can have it.

Come on, the Falklands belong to Great Britain and no amount of mere words will change that.

P