CNN and FOX News Completely Ignored Mississippi's New Anti-Gay Segregation Law

buster2010

NavyDoc

xuenchen
Can anybody cite the actual language that is discriminatory?

Or is this all "implied" ?

It must be there somewhere.

Given the hysteria of MSNBC in general and Mellissa Harris-Parry specifically, I would not be surprised that they are being intentionally inflammatory. She's the commentator who said several disgusting and racist things about Romney's adoptive grandchild. Typical leftist hate and vitriol.

Here's a crazy idea, how about instead of having more laws and lawsuits, let's just have more freedom? Freedom of association. Everybody should be able to associate with or not associate with whomever they choose. Certainly some bigots might not associate with gays or straights or whites or blacks, but sometimes you have to tolerate a little crappy behavior if you truly want a free society.

edit on 11-4-2014 by NavyDoc because: (no reason given)

edit on 11-4-2014 by NavyDoc because: (no reason given)

Then get rid of the 14th amendment. What the heck let's get rid of all the amendments then let total chaos reign.

The 14th is equal protection under the LAW. It has absolutely nothing to do with who private citizens choose to associate with. Nice try but fail.

reply to post by 168617

You don't have to be in an organised religion like you said to be Christian. What you do have to do is establish the religious teachings in your life somehow otherwise you are an Atheist Christian. The essence of being Christian is establishing those teachings in your life, not your opinion, not someone else's but the Bible's command to the individual reading. Again, anything around that is Atheist or Antichrist.

So if I understand correctly I have 3 choices: Christian, Atheist Christian or Antichrist.
Then I guess, by your mode of thought, I am an Atheist Christian by default. I hope they don't expect me to pay any back fee's for all the years I was unaware of this. I also didn't know stereotyping people was such a prerequisite to being a good Christian either. You can call me that from here on if it makes you feel better.

But I too have categories I put people into: Tolerant, Intolerant and Blindly Faithful!

reply to post by NavyDoc

Here's a crazy idea, how about instead of having more laws and lawsuits, let's just have more freedom? Freedom of association. Everybody should be able to associate with or not associate with whomever they choose. Certainly some bigots might not associate with gays or straights or whites or blacks, but sometimes you have to tolerate a little crappy behavior if you truly want a free society.

You bring up a great point, we do have the freedom to associate with who we want to. For example, if I don't like idiots, I don't have to go to an idiot convention or let idiots into my home. But if I open up a business selling bread, obviously there are some idiots out there that would want there daily bread from me. And who am I to deny an idiot from there daily bread!
That is the drawback to owning a public business in a free society.

AnteBellum
reply to post by NavyDoc

 

Here's a crazy idea, how about instead of having more laws and lawsuits, let's just have more freedom? Freedom of association. Everybody should be able to associate with or not associate with whomever they choose. Certainly some bigots might not associate with gays or straights or whites or blacks, but sometimes you have to tolerate a little crappy behavior if you truly want a free society.

You bring up a great point, we do have the freedom to associate with who we want to. For example, if I don't like idiots, I don't have to go to an idiot convention or let idiots into my home. But if I open up a business selling bread, obviously there are some idiots out there that would want there daily bread from me. And who am I to deny an idiot from there daily bread!
That is the drawback to owning a public business in a free society.

edit on 4/11/2014 by AnteBellum because: add

But that's not a part of owning a business in a free society. In a free society, business wins or loses based on the marketplace, not federal mandates.

Here's the problem and the danger of using the coercive force of government to punish behavior you deem wrong or unpleasant. It may be fine while the pendulum of society has swung to the side that supports your belief system, but when it swings back to the other side, you have given the state precedent and legal authority to fore you to do something that you don't walk.

Part of a free society is that we must accept some bigotry and idiocy and people doing things we don't like. I loathe the Westboro Baptist Church and what they say about gays and soldiers, for example. I'm certain you can agree that they are nasty, abhorrent, and bigoted people. However, I'm certain you would also agree that we tolerate their bad behavior, and make no laws to curb their behavior, because we understand the ability to speak freely is fundamental to a free society.

It would be antithetical to freedom to have the state ban or restrict their speech and this would violate the Constitution. OTOH, if private individuals choose to counter-protest, criticize, or not support them, this is part of freedom and not a violation of the Constitution,

Similarly, the freedom of association is also an integral part of a free society. We should tolerate people who don't want to work with other types of people, even if we find it abhorrent, because the greater damage to a free society is a situation in which we find the state dictating to us with whom we may or may not associate. The greatness of a free society is that then we, who disagree with them, can refuse to do business with them and they will either change their business model or go under--all without the coercive power of the state coming into play.

What people choose to do and what the state chooses to do are different things. If the state makes a law that band gay men from being Hooters Girls, then the state has violated the 14th Amendment.

However, if a business owner only wants to hire women to be Hooters girls, he has not violated the 14th amendment and he has the right to make that business decision.

reply to post by NavyDoc


I'm sorry I became a little lost in all the topics and stress of today.
I agree with everything you have written above. (the last sentences got a bit grey though)

But just so I don't misunderstand you,
Do you feel a hotel owner should be able to not allow two gay men to rent a room for the night for religious conflict of interest?
If no, they shouldn't be able to refuse them. Then what method could be used other then the law, to enforce this?

To me it is bordering the problems we had with racism/sexism years ago, which if it weren't for the civil rights movement and affirmative action, would have continued indefinitely.

AnteBellum
reply to post by NavyDoc

 

I'm sorry I became a little lost in all the topics and stress of today.
I agree with everything you have written above. (the last sentences got a bit grey though)

But just so I don't misunderstand you,
Do you feel a hotel owner should be able to not allow two gay men to rent a room for the night for religious conflict of interest?
If no, they shouldn't be able to refuse them. Then what method could be used other then the law, to enforce this?

To me it is bordering the problems we had with racism/sexism years ago, which if it weren't for the civil rights movement and affirmative action, would have continued indefinitely.

edit on 4/11/2014 by AnteBellum because: (no reason given)

Just like the freedom of speech or of the press, we have to accept some #ty things assholes say to protect all of our freedoms to say what we want.

By the same vein, we may have to accept some assholes with prejudice who do not want to associate with people different than them to preserve the freedom of association with all of us. The Black Panthers do not allow white people to join--that is their business and, even though I disagree with them, they have every right to make that decision.

Now, when I say that the state should not make laws forcing people to work with people they do not want to, that is in no way agreement with their decision nor is that a belief that they should go unpunished.

The first problem I see with what you said is the automatic desire to punish someone who you disagree with. There are many people who I disagree with that I simply ignore. As Lewis Carrol said," Some say 'tis love, love, that makes the world go 'round. I say, 'tis people minding their own business."

But, since you asked, how do we punish those people without engaging the coercive power of the state? It is simple. We have the first amendment right to criticize them, give them bad reviews, use social media to tell millions around the world what they do, picket them, refuse to do business with them, refuse to interact with them--all in keeping with freedom and the first amendment (as long as we don't lie) and the laws pertaining to slander and harassment. They will, eventually, either change their business model or fold. That is how citizens can pressure bad behavior away without giving more power to the government.

The Civil rights movement in the south was winning before a single law was written. Before the civil rights act, many business changed their policies based on protest and activism that led to customer loss.

Temporarily closed.

This threads is not about who is attracted to whom...what religion they are, or what their political affiliation.

We expect civility and decorum within all topics.

The END of Hate Speech, subtle or otherwise, on ATS

--Off Topic, One Liners and General Back Scratching Posts--

Reaffirming Our Desire For Productive Political Debate (REVISED)


Reopened....but anyone straying from the intent of the OP faces post removals and possibly more.

reply to post by DontTreadOnMe


I wish you would have kept it closed - Permanently!

It amazes me as a person who is not GLBT how much anger has been directed by others just for association of this thread. I have been at ATS for years and in no other one thread have I been targeted by 'Trolls'(thank you puptuls) and the amount of hate energy that has been displayed here. All of it from angry *** believers trying to RAM a certain viewpoint down others throats. The initial thread had nothing to do with it, it was a comment on the MSM coverage! You all spun it the way you wanted it to be heard, not me!
During the french inquisition many were roasted and burned at the stake for heresy. I can understand the threat this movement is making toward some of you, but not me. Hopefully when there numbers are far greater then yours, which is happening rapidly, they will show you all the same compassion and understanding you showed them, at the end of a torch!

I am quite done. Even on the smallest scale, I feel swept into a war that was never mine to fight to begin with. Looking collectively at all the comments from this one simple thread, it is obvious for me to see who the aggressors are now.
The intolerant, bigotous, discriminating tendencies displayed here are just one reason why numbers are so low in groups that used to be the ruling class. It's not progressive thinking, these people just want to be left alone.

reply to post by Darth_Prime


I believe the Bible was inspired by God and at least portions of the first five books of the law were dictated verbatim, per the testimony of Moses. The best proof of this is the historical track record of fulfilled prophecies,

www.reasons.org...

The pattern among the prophets is that they wrote about how God used them to deal with the nation of Israel, and similarly the New Testament apostles wrote of their first hand experiences with the person of Jesus Christ and as they were inspired by the Holy Spirit.

So the Bible has some very challenging teachings with regards to the moral standards we need to follow. One of the most difficult, from Jesus, for example is to love your enemies. It is also quite strict about sexual activity. Such is restricted to married couples, man and woman.

While Jesus provides forgiveness when we acknowledge our sins, how we've fallen short of this ideal, the Bible also teaches that if you are a committed follower of Jesus Christ, over time you will forsake all of these sins and will no longer practice them. That is you will not have any sin lifestyle choices.

Many homosexuals have found faith in Jesus and have found the strength to overcome their particular proclivity, among others. Obviously with any behavior that's reinforced with some kind of pleasure, you have neural pathways burned in that war against you, and it takes time to reprogram them, but it is possible.

AnteBellum
reply to post by SevenThunders

 

How can you make a statistical analysis on intent??? That's like asking someone if they like cake when they have never tried it. But if you are religiously bound you'd be more likely to accept cake's fluffy delicious goodness or chocolately decadence. I do not fear god, I do not mourn god either. In my understanding it would be impossible for one to achieve even the slightest understanding of god on a human level and that doesn't stop me from living a highly moral lifestyle.

Just to clarify the Barna Poll's methodology; they have several questions, which have kind of obvious answers to a fundamentalist christian, but which seem to stump those caught up in post-modernism. These include things like whether you believe in absolute truth, whether the Bible is the word of God, whether satan is real and whether Jesus died for your sins and rose again on the third day.

To the post-modernist or christian atheist, they can't really commit to any sort of fundamental interpretation of Biblical christianity. They prefer the freedom to make up the rules as they go along. It is a simple matter however to actually ask those questions and also ask questions pertaining to various negative social behaviors such as gambling, fornication, divorce, drug use etc. etc.

Someone who has a christian worldview is strictly defined, in these terms by those who answer the questions consistent with a fundamentalist christian worldview. This is just a definition. You don't have to like it. Nevertheless those with an actual christian worldview, not just those who declare themselves as Christians, are the only ones who show better social outcomes than the rest of unbelieving America.

This offers more evidence to the vague feeling that many of us have, that being a christian in America first has the meaning that you are a bit of a hypocrite, not living up to the high moral standards that Jesus preached long ago. No we know why. Most are actually christian atheists like yourself.

This is a way really to simply be honest. What's the point of saying you belong to deity that you don't really believe in, or claim to be a christian but having no intention to follow any of his teachings?

certain people have no problem denying service or even respect to certain people until they are the one subject to the discrimination. its like you know you're sitting pretty...white, straight, have dollars to spend...no one is closing their door on you based on prejudice. if they did you'd freak out and get mad.

some people act as if they own the constitution and the rights fought for and granted ...for all people. get over it. you really want a society where people go out of their way to put a boundary in the way of other people? this mentality is what keeps us in war and hate.

as a gay man, you can't debate or negate my existence, perspective or my pursuit of liberty and happiness.

This is an important story to me and I can't believe that civilized humans think that it is okay to deny other people food and housing and services based on their opinions. This goes far beyond anything I've ever seen religious people do -

And I fume at how they can do such destructive acts while pretending to be Christians.

RebelHart
certain people have no problem denying service or even respect to certain people until they are the one subject to the discrimination. its like you know you're sitting pretty...white, straight, have dollars to spend...no one is closing their door on you based on prejudice. if they did you'd freak out and get mad.

Exactly, think of how any of the people promoting denial of services would feel if they were discriminated against just a little bit. They would probably bring a lawsuit and try to destroy the other side entirely.

This is the problem, lack of empathy. And I believe that lack of empathy affects everyone negatively. I don't want to participate in a situation where the "leaders" of our nation decide that, after making so much progress, they are going to go out of their way to hurt citizens of our nation.

And for the record, it isn't a Christian thing to do, harm people who think differently, or harm the poor.

reply to post by SevenThunders


So SevenThunders, your God that you worship discriminates and hates people based on their sexual orientation? What makes you decide to worship someone with that kind of attitude?

How is that moral? It seems to me that the God you worship practices high levels of immorality. I think he's trying to deceive you, man. I wouldn't trust Him to be honest if he has an attitude like that and tells you it's moral, he might be lying to you about other things, too.

And how do you even know that this God you worship, who is promoting things at the moment like harming gays and denying science (even though if he was the real Creator he would know science) and more very destructive things is not an impostor taking the place of the God from the Bible? This current manifestation you worship seems to have a different, very evil aura.

I think you could just be worshiping either another deity or a group of humans who are taking advantage of your lack of faith in a loving God, and your ease at being deceived.

reply to post by darkbake


Can you show me where the actually bill allows anyone to deny those? I cant seem to find it....

ownbestenemy
reply to post by darkbake

 

Can you show me where the actually bill allows anyone to deny those? I cant seem to find it....

in the bill the language is vague but say you have the right to refuse service or follow certain laws based on your political...I mean, religious views...

since race, religion, gender, nationality, a disability, are protected under the constitution regardless, that gays to be the only ones really subject to the repercussions of the law. yes, people who are not gay have nothing to worry about im sure.

reply to post by ownbestenemy


It was only a matter of time before you trolled, excuse strolled back on here. There is no methodology to debate against someone who is not trying to make a point, just discredit all those that oppose it with fancy words.

Obviously you are an intelligent man and with that I will still try to make this point simple. Bills and then laws do not have a universally accepted definition. That is why we arrest based on them and DO NOT PROSECUTE OR SENTENCE UNTIL GOING THROUGH THE JUDICIAL SYSTEM. If they weren't we wouldn't need judges or a court system! Interpretation of the law, this is why lawyers spend so much time going back and forth on issues trying to sway decision for their respective sides. A man as smart as you knows this but preying on the many who do not, to make a point, that's just to easy.

With that said, ME(or anyone) and YOU could argue, debate, slander, yell, throw stones, beat each other with day old fish, whatever here on this site about this issue until god himself comes down and slaps us both on the head for being obtuse. I do not have the time for it and given the religiously biased, bigotous intent many of you insist on pushing in this thread. I am only one click away from going to the MOD's.

Ownbestenemy, why don't you answer the threads question, 'Why did the media overlook this?"
That was the real issue I had and given your stance you could have answered it in one sentence.

reply to post by SevenThunders


You wrote:

You don't have to be in an organised religion like you said to be Christian. What you do have to do is establish the religious teachings in your life somehow otherwise you are an Atheist Christian. The essence of being Christian is establishing those teachings in your life, not your opinion, not someone else's but the Bible's command to the individual reading. Again, anything around that is Atheist or Antichrist.

I replied to another regarding this:

So if I understand correctly I have 3 choices: Christian, Atheist Christian or Antichrist.
Then I guess, by your mode of thought, I am an Atheist Christian by default. I hope they don't expect me to pay any back fee's for all the years I was unaware of this. I also didn't know stereotyping people was such a prerequisite to being a good Christian either. You can call me that from here on if it makes you feel better.

But I too have categories I put people into: Tolerant, Intolerant and Blindly Faithful!

Religiously blind, I feel I can use this term in describing you now since you have repeatedly labeled me a 'christian atheist' much to my dislike and disbelief. I do not fit into just one category, I am unique, we all are!

Why don't you stick to the topic? Why do you insist on using this thread as a vehicle to push your own bigotous, discriminating purposes? I haven't heard one thing yet that relates to the media from you.
What is the real problem?
Have you also been a victim of discrimination? It wouldn't surprise me given your attitude.

I wrote earlier:

You bring up a great point, we do have the freedom to associate with who we want to. For example, if I don't like idiots, I don't have to go to an idiot convention or let idiots into my home. But if I open up a business selling bread, obviously there are some idiots out there that would want there daily bread from me. And who am I to deny an idiot from there daily bread!
That is the drawback to owning a public business in a free society.

I think you need to look at this from a perspective that someday the world will change with or without you. Right now you may be in an area that is somewhat sheltered from these topics and issues or you may not. I am in the heart and soul of the free world here in Manhattan. There is no denying - if it exists, it is here, some good, some bad. But everyone here lives, sleeps, eats and in your case pray's together, all religions, all faiths, all here. With so much hatred built up inside, you are segregating yourself to coincide with another group by proxy. I won't say who they are but the FID, NSA and DHS are very interested in there behaviors.