Abortion is a gift from God

kaylaluv
reply to post by vasaga

 

Okay, that is a perfect example of why some abortions should be FORCED on some people. Or at least forced sterilizations. I lean towards forced sterilization. Have every male sterilized at birth. Then, when that male is age 18, he has to apply to have the sterilization reversed. He has to have a job and be making a certain amount of money, and he has to have a financial plan for the future. If his application is rejected, the sterilization must remain, until such time as he can get his act together. Or, switch it around to the female being sterilized, if you so choose.

I'm only half sarcastic here. The fact is, there are people in this world who aren't too bright. There are people in this world who aren't very responsible. That's just a fact, and I don't see any way around that fact. So what do we do with those people? I don't think it will work just telling those people to get smarter and be more responsible. If only it were that easy. Banning abortions? You think that will all of a sudden make all those people smarter and more responsible? I seriously doubt it. They'll just keep having those babies, and make you pay for it.

If as a woman you know you have the option to get free money if you're a single mother, you're gonna allow it a lot faster than if you know you'll be on your own. Do you think the woman in my video would have her 4th child if she would get absolutely nothing? The more children she has, more money she gets. It shouldn't be that way.

It's the same reason women really want to get married right now, but men don't. When a woman gets married, she is abolished from responsibility and all of it falls on the man. She will simply become a parasite. We are creating parasites in this society by supporting atrocities. Why should we do anything with those people that are considered less smart or whatever? Everyone needs to carry their own responsibilities in life. Yeah not everyone is as bright, but if we keep babysitting everyone, forcing them to do what we think is right, what are we actually creating? By the mistakes, people will learn. But if you give them free escapes for their mistakes, they will not. We're simply making people dumber by lifting them up when they shouldn't. Your life, your choices, your responsibilities. It's not the responsibility of everyone else to pay for your mistakes. If we never let anyone carry their own bagage, how do you expect to have a society with people that are responsible? Responsibility is not something you have or don't have. It's something that's developed.

I did not say anything about banning abortions either. It simply also falls under the choice-responsibility dynamic. But, it should not be sponsored or whatever. Let everything cost what it should cost, and watch the world change.

As for the sterilization... Why must it be males? This is a perfect example of creating a bigger problem when trying to solve one. What do you think will happen when only a few men are fertile and all women are? Do you really think they are gonna stick to one woman when there are a lot of them available? You would simply create more motherless homes in the long run. Women will be craving to meet one of these fertile men. He will spread his semen all around, and he will never be able to take care of all of the children anyway. The financial plan and so on will never be sufficient.

We should stop trying to control everything and save everyone. Let the natural dynamics take care of things by themselves.

reply to post by SaturnFX


There's no verse in the bible that says babies auto go to heaven, its very hard to think that God would punish an innocent baby but they are still filled with sin its not Gods fault its mans. All of the verses used to say that babies are auto saved never say that babies auto go to heaven they are just twisted out of context to re-leave our guilt.

vasaga


If as a woman you know you have the option to get free money if you're a single mother, you're gonna allow it a lot faster than if you know you'll be on your own. Do you think the woman in my video would have her 4th child if she would get absolutely nothing? The more children she has, more money she gets. It shouldn't be that way.

So you think if we just quit helping these women that they would all of a sudden develop responsible reproduction and parenting skills? Take a look at the millions of children slowly starving to death in India and get back with me.

It's the same reason women really want to get married right now, but men don't. When a woman gets married, she is abolished from responsibility and all of it falls on the man. She will simply become a parasite.

What?!?? You don't have a good opinion of women, do you. Little bit of a misogynist, are we?

I did not say anything about banning abortions either. It simply also falls under the choice-responsibility dynamic. But, it should not be sponsored or whatever. Let everything cost what it should cost, and watch the world change.

Yeah, watch the women who are desperate for an abortion drink Drano, or stick a clothes hanger inside themselves. Cool.

As for the sterilization... Why must it be males? This is a perfect example of creating a bigger problem when trying to solve one. What do you think will happen when only a few men are fertile and all women are? Do you really think they are gonna stick to one woman when there are a lot of them available? You would simply create more motherless homes in the long run. Women will be craving to meet one of these fertile men. He will spread his semen all around, and he will never be able to take care of all of the children anyway. The financial plan and so on will never be sufficient.

Fine. Sterilize the women.

We should stop trying to control everything and save everyone. Let the natural dynamics take care of things by themselves.

Again, take a look at India, and tell me you would be proud to be a citizen of a country that lets it's poor die slowly by "the natural dynamics" of starvation and disease.

reply to post by beezzer


Many animals purposefully abort in times of stress by eating plants nature provides to accomplish the task. Women probably learned which ones to use by watching animals. Other animals can delay gestation if needed. These are old, old wisdoms.

Is it mocking religion to say abortion is a gift from God? Not if you think God created nature and natural processes.

reply to post by mugger


Christians have been murdering in the name of God for many a century.. So, I'm not sure I understand your comment. Don't get me wrong, I'm not anti Christian, I'm anti religion, all religions have committed murder in the name of their God. Does it make it right? no. Is it some divine gift from God to kill for said God? no. Do I believe abortion is a gift from God? no. The only gift from God any living creature has is their very own existence. God created everything, the good, and the evil, however, those are just perceptions by humans on what they do not and cannot comprehend about reality. Reality isn't just this physical world that we see and live in everyday. Reality consists of so much more, the divine and spiritual plane of existence. Our souls are a part of God, therefore our souls are eternal; it doesn't matter if you believe in reincarnation or not, the soul is eternal.

Voyaging
reply to post by mugger

 

Christians have been murdering in the name of God for many a century.. So, I'm not sure I understand your comment. Don't get me wrong, I'm not anti Christian, I'm anti religion, all Christians have been murdering in the name of God for many a century have committed murder in the name of their God. Does it make it right? no. Is it some divine gift from God to kill for said God? no. Do I believe abortion is a gift from God? no. The only gift from God any living creature has is their very own existence. God created everything, the good, and the evil, however, those are just perceptions by humans on what they do not and cannot comprehend about reality. Reality isn't just this physical world that we see and live in everyday. Reality consists of so much more, the divine and spiritual plane of existence. Our souls are a part of God, therefore our souls are eternal; it doesn't matter if you believe in reincarnation or not, the soul is eternal.

"all Christians have been murdering in the name of God for many a century"

ALL?

You speak of this as if it's still happening. Let that old horse die; it's in the past.
We all know the real monsters who kill in the name of their god.

Thanks

kaylaluv
So you think if we just quit helping these women that they would all of a sudden develop responsible reproduction and parenting skills? Take a look at the millions of children slowly starving to death in India and get back with me.

I never said it was the only requirement. It is one of the requirements however.

kaylaluv
What?!?? You don't have a good opinion of women, do you. Little bit of a misogynist, are we?

That label is thrown around way too loosely. This has nothing to do with that. Instead of having a whole debate about that, I'll simply leave two things here.

This image

And this video:

kaylaluv
Yeah, watch the women who are desperate for an abortion drink Drano, or stick a clothes hanger inside themselves. Cool.

Your point?

kaylaluv
Fine. Sterilize the women.

I'm not for sterilizing anyone. If you ever played Mass Effect, the genophage should tell you why. If you're not familiar with Mass Effect at all, simply google genophage and you'll find what you need to know.

kaylaluv
Again, take a look at India, and tell me you would be proud to be a citizen of a country that lets it's poor die slowly by starvation and disease.

India is one of the countries where the rich take the most advantage of the poor. When there's child slavery in a country we already know things are not naturally running their course, but the powerful are taking advantage. The powerful are again not taking responsibility for their actions. They shift the responsibility to the poor and basically let them starve in the process. Responsibility is one of the key elements that should be required from everything and everyone in our society. As soon as that is taken away, the only result is parasitism.

Before you turn around and call me a misogynist again, it's not limited to women, it's a logical behavior that everyone and every organisation will express when responsibility is abolished. Why do you think governments don't solve anything and only seem to be making things worse? Because they are not held responsible for their actions. Everyone in office can do whatever they please and it's talked away with spooky language. Everyone complains about governments and politicians, but no one does anything to let them actually pay for their mistakes. It's the people that pay. The government is simply a parasite on the people, just like corporations are a parasite on the poor and like women are a parasite on men.

reply to post by vasaga


Blah, blah - women are evil parasites - blah, blah - don't you dare call me a misogynist - blah, blah - the rich have a responsibility to the poor - blah, blah - but we should just let nature take its course - blah, blah....

I'm not really getting you, but we are way off topic for this thread. I believe this thread is about how offended we are that someone used their free speech to artistically depict the concept of God to promote abortions - or something like that.

TiedDestructor

Voyaging
reply to post by mugger

 

Christians have been murdering in the name of God for many a century...

"all Christians have been murdering in the name of God for many a century"

ALL?

You speak of this as if it's still happening. Let that old horse die; it's in the past.
We all know the real monsters who kill in the name of their god.

Thanks

1. You intentionally misquote Voyaging. Isn't "bearing false witness" out of line with Christian values?

2. “I believe today that I am acting in the sense of the Almighty Creator. By warding off the Jews I am fighting for the Lord’s work.” [Adolph Hitler, Speech, Reichstag, 1936]

3. Is 2013 the distant past? In November 2013, the UN warned the Central African Republic was at risk of spiraling into genocide. On 2 December, anti-balaka militiamen are suspected to have killed 12 people, including children, and wounded 30 others in an attack on the mostly Muslim Fula ethnic group in Boali, according to the government. BBC News

4. The Lord's Resistance Army, a cult guerrilla army engaged in 2005 in an armed rebellion against the Ugandan government. It has been accused of using child soldiers and committing numerous crimes against humanity; including massacres, abductions, mutilation, torture, rape, and forced child labour as soldiers, porters, and sex slaves. A quasi-religious movement that mixes some aspects of Christian beliefs with its own brand of spiritualism,it is led by Joseph Kony, who proclaims himself the spokesperson of God and a spirit medium, primarily of the "Holy Spirit" which the Acholi believe can represent itself in many manifestations. (BBC News

5. The National Liberation Front of Tripura (NLFT), a rebel group which seeks the secession of Tripura, North-East India, from the country, engages in terrorist violence motivated by their Christian beliefs. Source

... and so on, and so on.

But that's neither nor there really. Virtually every religious group becomes a political group in time, and political groups are violent when they need to be.

But, to be clear, anyone hiding under the skirts of Mother Church (in any of her incarnations) that pretends that Christians over all ascribe to some higher morality than the rest of us, vis a vis particularly claiming moral superiority regarding abortion, needs to consider the honesty of their position. In my opinion.

reply to post by Gryphon66


Don't flip that crap on me.

I didn't speak out of ignorance so ramble on.

reply to post by Gryphon66


Delete dp

TiedDestructor
reply to post by Gryphon66

 

Don't flip that crap on me.

I didn't speak out of ignorance so ramble on.

Not sure what you're saying here. Can you clarify?

Obviously Christians are as violent now as they've ever been, though admittedly, the center of military conflicts have shifted.

I mean, unless you count the American invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan as Christian Crusading ... I myself do not.

Do you have a counter-point, or did you just want to shut down the discussion?

At the basis of the "abortion question" after all is supposed to be an underlying Christian morality, yes?

reply to post by Gryphon66


I was making a statement about something I'm sick of seeing. I don't have a rebuttal for you because I didn't engage you nor do I want to.

As I've said on this very thread I'm TRYING to stay as much on topic as I can. If not for all the keyboard warriors who want to debate irrelevant material. I don't see the point.

If you want more of an in depth explanation than that I suggest you debate someone who has the time.

Now I'm rambling...

Good enough.

Misunderstandings abound.

reply to post by Gryphon66


Participate doesn't meant pursue all avenues. MODERN Christian beliefs ARE relevant. What was done during the crusades or what is currently done by Christian extremists have no bearing in discussion because they don't represent the majority.

I prefer not to nitpick but making an objection doesn't warrant a full-fledged discussion unless it DIRECTLY correlates with the subject matter.

ETA: I concede...

Human laws either come from God or at least religious tradition.
No need to be religious here but if she doesn't want to obey these laws she shouldn't feel safe anymore because the same laws are protecting her.
Without these laws there is no difference between killing a one day child, a month old child or a forty year old bitch or animal. Everything is natural and coming from "the mother nature" From stealing to rape. No problem. Animals do it all the time. They steal, kill and eat their children from time to time so it's kinda fruit of life. Or is it? (Eating animals is kind of sexual perversion too btw.)
I think there should be a new consensus that there should be no help allowed to such woman from the outside. If she can make it to some point in privacy of her body just with herbs then ok but no cutting and stabbing through her evil womb. Some of you would consider offensive and disgusting if I posted some horror real life images yet you still feel comfortable defending such deeds. This is hypocritical.
Cheers

After reading the OP's post I couldn't help but be reminded of this.

I think it must be truly incomprehensible to some of you that we can be ethical and moral beings without believing a) in God or b) that conception is the beginning of life.

There are many of us who hold both positions, or one-or-the-other, and live normal, productive, happy and even good lives.

Even if it is impossible for you to imagine that for yourself, realize that many of your fellow citizens truly do not believe as you do and further, that your belief is not the only right belief.

(I've said this many times on this board, but...) I actually believe that conception is the beginning of the child's life and I wouldn't have an abortion myself, unless it threatened my life. But a belief I hold even more dearly is the belief that each woman has the right to self-governance. NO ONE has the right to prohibit a woman from making choices about her own body.

I actually had to make that choice because - listen - the only time I was pregnant or ever would be pregnant, it was a threat to my life and I had to make the very difficult choice to end the pregnancy. I was thrilled to be pregnant. It was the happiest time of my life. I had wanted a child for years and I was absolutely devastated to learn that I couldn't keep it. No one except my husband knows what I went through with that experience.

So, I get a little miffed when ANYONE thinks they have the right to dictate this very personal decision to someone else.

Does that lump of cells as some people call it grow up to become, a living,thinking, breathing HUMAN BEING ?

YES IT DOES.

Pro choice ?

Supporting the artificial means to prohibt, and end human life.

A 'gift from God ' ?

That is called trying to have it both ways.

Because religion says that clump of cells has a right to life.

A person being created is a gift from god.