Chicago’s newly armed residents send murder rate plummeting

reply to post by Grimpachi


Notice that the only 1st world countries on the list are the U.S & Russia, possibly because if they showed the true stats for 1st world countries then you're arguement would be shown to be false. I quote from your own link.

This list seems to have no developed nations listed except the USA and Russia (and that one is iffy. Every Western European nation is left off, as is Japan, Canada, South Korea, China, Singapore, Arab Gulf states, Argentina... but it seems to list nearly every African, SE Asian, Central American, and random island nation I can think of. They just avoided every country that has a lower homicide rate than the US, and claimed that we were at the bottom of the list. Just some highlights of countries with lower murder rates than the US: Iran, Palestine, Israel, Laos, India, Lebanon, IRAQ (now), Vietnam, Algeria, the UK, France, Egypt, and Saudi Arabia. [Sourced from the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime.]

Worst of all, it claims (in all-caps, no less) that Switzerland had "NO MURDER OCCURRENCE." In about 4 seconds of Googling, they could have found that in 2010, Switzerland had 53 killings (40 of which were done with firearms) and 187 attempted murders. A full 15 countries have lower murder rates (all murder, not just firearms) than Switzerland, including some like Japan, Singapore and Hong Kong (which has almost 1/4 the murder rate of Switzerland), where guns are almost completely absent outside military and paramilitary forces.

Also, Switzerland has no law that any citizen must have a gun (they must have military service, but after that they could just throw any guns they have away if they desired), and there's certainly no law whatsoever dictating any ability in marksmanship. In fact, the US has just about double the number of guns owned per person as Switzerland, which is far and away the highest rate for any country. Yemen comes in a close second with 61.7% of the number of guns per person as the US.

reply to post by mclarenmp4

I just wanted to add to the Americans who think having guns make your life safer. I have never heard a gunshot in my entire life, I can walk about my entire city without the fear of being shot, mugged or harmed in anyway, I know no-one who has ever been killed at the hands of a weapon whether knife, gun or whatever. Our police are not armed and I've only heard of 1 death from police brutality & my city is also one of the wealthiest in the uk, so there are a lot of people with money but the crime rate here is very low.

So while agree with Americans having their own right to bear arms, please don't try to tell the rest of the world what is best for their country.
We've got more experience of running a country than you & are happy that we don't have an armed populace.

reply to post by xuenchen


The surrounding cities that are gun restrictive zones, would be well advised to follow the example of Illinois. The bad guys will go to where it's safest for them to commit crimes...

Des

Destinyone
reply to post by xuenchen

 

The surrounding cities that are gun restrictive zones, would be well advised to follow the example of Illinois. The bad guys will go to where it's safest for them to commit crimes...

Des

Excellent Point

I think they read the bulletins.

But the politicians are now in a quandary.

reply to post by xuenchen


I've always said, arm the nation, and crime goes down....... Good Post. S+F for You! Later, Syx.

reply to post by xavi1000


Yes, throughout history, many have thought that they were fine as well.

reply to post by mclarenmp4

Gun politics in Switzerland are unique in Europe. The vast majority of men between the ages of 20 and 30 are conscripted into the militia and undergo military training, including weapons training. The personal weapons of the militia are kept at home as part of the military obligations; Switzerland thus has one of the highest militia gun ownership rates in the world.wiki

A full 15 countries have lower murder rates (all murder, not just firearms) than Switzerland, including some like Japan, Singapore and Hong Kong (which has almost 1/4 the murder rate of Switzerland), where guns are almost completely absent outside military and paramilitary forces.

Switzerland murder rate is at .71 per 100,000
Japan murder rate is at 1.02 per 100,000
Hong Kong murder rate is at 5 per 100,000
Singapore murder rate is at 17 per 100,000

Nation Master

I can see how you got confused. Intentional homicide is defined as unlawful death purposefully inflicted on a person by another person. If a slot is blank that does not mean there wasn't any murders it means there wasn't any data. As you can see above the countries you mentioned do not have 1/4 the murders as you claimed they do not even have less murders. I had to use a data point for which all had reported their homicides to compare the countries you mentioned if the rate for a country is at 0 it will say 0.0 I hope you look at the numbers again. If you find conflicting data please post your source.

I am not sure if you were using my source in combination with something you googled because you only made a claim without posting sources.

mclarenmp4
reply to post by mclarenmp4

 

I just wanted to add to the Americans who think having guns make your life safer. I have never heard a gunshot in my entire life, I can walk about my entire city without the fear of being shot, mugged or harmed in anyway, I know no-one who has ever been killed at the hands of a weapon whether knife, gun or whatever. Our police are not armed and I've only heard of 1 death from police brutality & my city is also one of the wealthiest in the uk, so there are a lot of people with money but the crime rate here is very low.

So while agree with Americans having their own right to bear arms, please don't try to tell the rest of the world what is best for their country.
We've got more experience of running a country than you & are happy that we don't have an armed populace.

Um...some people still don't lock the doors of their homes here.

I leave my keys in the ignition WITH the car running and unlocked on quick errands...such as a gas station. I never hear gunfire either; unless an animal is going down or I'm shooting at paper. The only time I've been a victim of an attempted mugging was not in my town but Atlanta, GA...of course a metropolitan area.

People rarely get murdered here. They slug it out, dust off and shake hands.

Slice off some of the hopeless parts of our country and I think it would be a pretty great place. Although we may never be able achieve the Utopia you are blessed to reside in; I too am happy and sleep well knowing we DO have an armed populace.

xavi1000
reply to post by Xtrozero

 

I dont mean to argue, member above stated that US or he need to educate rest of the World about guns.I'm in Europe (part of the rest of the World) and we dont need guns and we are doing fine.

edit on 4-4-2014 by xavi1000 because: (no reason given)

So many people miss the point about the right of the people to own guns. It is not only about hunting and personal protection. The founding fathers of America put in place as a safeguard of liberty. History has showed over and over again when the population is not armed if bad men get in power many will die.



This is the real reason of gun ownership it is a safeguard. Who really knows what the future holds.

The first concealed carry permits were issued in late February, so the decrease in crime can’t yet be attributed to more people carrying guns.

When it became easy to get a CCW in Texas the numbers started dropping from day one even though the number of new permits to the public were less then 100 for the whole state.

Most criminals are not very smart but they understood there were members of the public out there that were now carrying guns.
They also understood that the first permits on any NEW state CCW program will likely be issued to retired or ex police officers because the background checks are so easy for them.

For a criminal one CCW holder is one to many if the CCW holder is the one you are facing while committing a crime.

soontide
While I'm a great supporter of the 2nd amendment and an armed citizenry being able to protect itself, I really can't, in good conscience, agree that the drop in the murder rate in Chicago in the first quarter is due to CCW permits being finally given out. More likely, it's got more to do with the horrible weather than anything else. Let's see the statistics after a year. I know what the outcome will be. Lower crime rate. This bit of information, though, seems a bit thin to me.

If you live in Chicago, you are use to bad weather.

I feel your arguement holds no bearings because bad weather and Chicago go hand in hand.

I live south of Chicago, the weather up there is always worse than down here.

I don't think dope addicts and burglars give a damn if it is snowing or if it is cold. The numbers are compared to other times as well. In these other times it was snowy and cold.

xavi1000

I dont mean to argue, member above stated that US or he need to educate rest of the World about guns.I'm in Europe (part of the rest of the World) and we dont need guns and we are doing fine.

Fine for now...

I guess it is all about perspective. Without the gun loving crazy Americans, I'm not sure how the world would be like today. Maybe better or worst, but you are suggesting your model would be perfect in every scenario around the world, and I would need to disagree with that. When we look at WWII, Germany basically rolled across Europe and you are suggesting that could never happen again.

But what would have been the scenario if Europe was armed like America, would WWII ever have happened? Would Stalin have killed 40 million of his own people, would China have killed 100 million as they disregarded individual life for the sake of entering the industrial age?

In the end we always seem to blame guns, religion, nationalization etc, and the true blame is humans will be humans. Europe lives under the concept that humans can not be trusted and so must be controlled by an over reaching power, and this maybe correct. Individual freedom just may be something that we humans can not handle, but since that is what Americans have it tends to be something hard for us to want to give up even though it seems to be constantly challenged.

I think in the next few decades Europe and China will experienced some interesting times that will not affect America as much, time will tell though.

Guns in general is really a small issue when you look at everything. We tend to focus on very insignificant events and totally ignore really big ones just because it happens to be the flavor of the moment. As example if we really cared we would reduce max speed for cars down to 30 MPH, but we do not really care that cars still kill 40k and injure 2.5 million in the US alone.

Amazing that an inanimate object that can take a life as quickly as it can save a life gets so much one-sided propaganda publicity outlining that it is a bad bad thing....except when the US government and it's thug agencies use them freeing the crap out of the world and keeping it's citizens in line.

Expect another "shooting" soon. This stat. will obviously piss the gun-grabber posse' off to no end.

Never in the history of the US has it been more necessary for the general public to be armed, imo.

I present a comment from a gun-grabber for your viewing pleasure.........

reply to post by xavi1000


Thats not true. Its just a stream of luck.

You dont know how they work until you are tested either individually or as a nation.

Believe it or not just a population owning them has a very real effect. Sure it leads to dumb stereotypes, but there are always stereotypes and they always makes people feel bad and defensive. The thing is.. its on the international communities mind and thatsa good thing.

I live in Chicago and I have noticed the city a lot calmer lately. I think it's because of the severe cold we have had.

mclarenmp4
reply to post by mclarenmp4

 

I just wanted to add to the Americans who think having guns make your life safer. I have never heard a gunshot in my entire life, I can walk about my entire city without the fear of being shot, mugged or harmed in anyway, I know no-one who has ever been killed at the hands of a weapon whether knife, gun or whatever. Our police are not armed and I've only heard of 1 death from police brutality & my city is also one of the wealthiest in the uk, so there are a lot of people with money but the crime rate here is very low.

So while agree with Americans having their own right to bear arms, please don't try to tell the rest of the world what is best for their country.
We've got more experience of running a country than you & are happy that we don't have an armed populace.

I would imagine you are in somewhere like Edinburgh or Aberdeen. There's a big difference between Scottish cities and English cities like London. Banning guns in London only ended up with people being stabbed instead, though criminals still use sawn-off shotguns.

xavi1000

RedmoonMWC

Good find.
Now to educate the rest of the world.

Rest of the world is doing just fine without guns

Speak for yourself

xavi1000
reply to post by Xtrozero

 

I dont mean to argue, member above stated that US or he need to educate rest of the World about guns.I'm in Europe (part of the rest of the World) and we dont need guns and we are doing fine.

edit on 4-4-2014 by xavi1000 because: (no reason given)

how many US military bases in your country?

how's the crime rate?

soontide
While I'm a great supporter of the 2nd amendment and an armed citizenry being able to protect itself, I really can't, in good conscience, agree that the drop in the murder rate in Chicago in the first quarter is due to CCW permits being finally given out. More likely, it's got more to do with the horrible weather than anything else. Let's see the statistics after a year. I know what the outcome will be. Lower crime rate. This bit of information, though, seems a bit thin to me.

lol, the weather?

sure.

Grimpachi
reply to post by mclarenmp4

 

Gun politics in Switzerland are unique in Europe. The vast majority of men between the ages of 20 and 30 are conscripted into the militia and undergo military training, including weapons training. The personal weapons of the militia are kept at home as part of the military obligations; Switzerland thus has one of the highest militia gun ownership rates in the world.wiki

A full 15 countries have lower murder rates (all murder, not just firearms) than Switzerland, including some like Japan, Singapore and Hong Kong (which has almost 1/4 the murder rate of Switzerland), where guns are almost completely absent outside military and paramilitary forces.

Switzerland murder rate is at .71 per 100,000
Japan murder rate is at 1.02 per 100,000
Hong Kong murder rate is at 5 per 100,000
Singapore murder rate is at 17 per 100,000

Nation Master

I can see how you got confused. Intentional homicide is defined as unlawful death purposefully inflicted on a person by another person. If a slot is blank that does not mean there wasn't any murders it means there wasn't any data. As you can see above the countries you mentioned do not have 1/4 the murders as you claimed they do not even have less murders. I had to use a data point for which all had reported their homicides to compare the countries you mentioned if the rate for a country is at 0 it will say 0.0 I hope you look at the numbers again. If you find conflicting data please post your source.

I am not sure if you were using my source in combination with something you googled because you only made a claim without posting sources.

edit on 4-4-2014 by Grimpachi because: (no reason given)

murder by fire arm is not common at all here in HK.

u will get chopped before being shot.

or killed by someone jumping off a building.

it always amazes me when the news say, they found a gun and 3 bullets!!!!