The Gun Debate

deadcalm

i want unstable people to not have guns

reply to post by Idiosonic

 

An unstable person can kill you with a hammer, a bat, a pitchfork, kitchen knife or a shovel. Guns are tools....just like a hammer. Gun or hammer...you won't be any more dead if you get shot or beat to death. Once the gun restrictions start, you get "mission creep". It will never stop at that. If I happen to come up against a nut with a gun...I'd rather be armed and able to defend myself...than be dead at the hands of a madman.

As for that scope...that is one sweet piece of kit...where can I get one? Dear Santa....

As for the girl in the vid...nice shooting. I've been shooting most of my life and I know I can't hit a target at 1000 yards first shot....like I said...I want one!

Thx for bringing it to my attention.

I know right!!!

Daddy was a good boy this year santa, pretty pretty please. I swear I will be the best daddy forever if I get one of these for christmas.

Idiosonic
reply to post by beezzer

 

I live in a foreign country. It works here, no monthly mass shootings. i don't live in constant fear, i actually own guns, but not for protection. we eliminated the threat, the government hasn't become tyrannical. we have less than 10 gun murders a year. you have over 11,000

I also like you point about the first amendment. It seems that it only applies if i agree with what you are saying though. Weird .

On the contrary. I would fight to defend your right to speak freely. Regardless of whether I agree or not.

The American culture is unique. It is one forged through the gun. The gun is simply a symbol of our freedoms.

Bad people will always do bad things, regardless of the laws put in place. Our guns provide us with the individual right to protect ourselves against criminal persons or criminal governments.

Self-reliance is big here. We eschew the nanny state and government oversight and instead prefer personal responsibility and self-determination.

reply to post by beezzer


You didn't really explain how people think we shouldn't infringe on the 2nd amendment yet have no problem infringing on the rights of people like James. Why can't people like him own the "best" firearms. Ak-47's, M16's, M60. don't infringe on James' rights. That is my argument

STOP RIGHT HERE. WE NEED TO CHECK OURSELVES.

The US Gov't is NOT against Guns., Repeat. They are NOT against Guns.


The US Gov't IS AGAINST YOU having guns

(or rather a means to stand up to an ever oppressive and intrusive gov't).

BTW, Thanks to Obama (the greatst guns salesmen of all time), I have learned how to build my own AR-15's and have become a fully prepared prepper. You can give up your rights/property/spirite, but don't expect me to.

Idiosonic
reply to post by beezzer

 

You didn't really explain how people think we shouldn't infringe on the 2nd amendment yet have no problem infringing on the rights of people like James. Why can't people like him own the "best" firearms. Ak-47's, M16's, M60. don't infringe on James' rights. That is my argument

Anyone should be able to own a firearm. What that person does with it, though, carries responsibility.

If anyone commits a crime with a firearm then they should be held responsible for their actions.

reply to post by beezzer


I was not directly referring to you with the 1st amendment, most of the guys on here actually.

America was also built on slavery,(every man equal... Bul#) if the slaves are free. why can't the guns be

reply to post by Idiosonic


The reason slaves were started to begin with...

They didn't have guns to stop the ones who did....

Without a gun you are a slave,
with a gun you are a citizen.

Idiosonic
I give up. I'll just let you continue to gun down kids at school. That is the problem with America, no one wants to change, you all think it's perfect. Let me tell you something, having people gun down kids at school is not perfect and needs to change yet no one will. "were number one" cut the crap and open your eyes

This whole world is a mess, gotta have a goddamn vest on your chest and a Glock just to go watch Batman. But why? because no one will change [/quote

" I'll just let YOU continue to gun down kids at school"

Seriously guy?

Name one single noncriminal gun owner that has done this?

If the teachers would have had guns, all these idiots would have got burned down after the first couple of shots were fired.

Even the guy at Fort Hood, put the gun in his mouth and offed himself at the first sight of another with a gun.

In fact, almost every time anything like this has happened, the perpetrators just give it up upon first sight of an armed defender.

Which seems more likely to work out here? ( you do keep saying you want change right?) We make "gun free zones" meaning " defenseless target zones" and wander why they choose these places.

Or we make it legal to carry just about everywhere, and there are no more soft targets full of defenseless victims.

There will be much less cases of this happening.

It is always a gun free zone they choose.

Eliminate them, problem solved.

Guns arent the problem, they never were.

Progressive mind rot thinking it can plan out a society is the problem.

"if we make this a gun free zone, nobody would dare bring one in here, it will always be a safe place." LOL, ya hows that liberal thinking working out?

reply to post by anon72


If you think an army of the people could defeat the government in this day and age then you are crazy.

In the Blue corner we have The U.S government. They posses Tanks, Predator drones, Laser guided missiles, Fighter jets. NUKES!

In the Red corner we have you, the people. You have some semi-auto rifles, pistols and shotguns.

AND FIGHT!!!!!!!!

Idiosonic
reply to post by beezzer

 

I was not directly referring to you with the 1st amendment, most of the guys on here actually.

I would defend their rights as well.

America was also built on slavery,(every man equal... Bul#) if the slaves are free. why can't the guns be

Good point. Why can't guns be free for everyone?

Idiosonic
reply to post by anon72

 

If you think an army of the people could defeat the government in this day and age then you are crazy.

In the Blue corner we have The U.S government. They posses Tanks, Predator drones, Laser guided missiles, Fighter jets. NUKES!

In the Red corner we have you, the people. You have some semi-auto rifles, pistols and shotguns.

AND FIGHT!!!!!!!!

Custer.
Afghanistan.
Vietnam.

*cough*

Yeah, we'd have a chance.

reply to post by Idiosonic


I'll take my chances with the common man agains the gov't any day.

You can thank me for saving your butt someday, later on.

You're type of thinking of people will be begging for my type of thinking people
before it is all said and done.

Idiosonic
This is my first thread and it is bound to be a controversial one.

Here we go again, another shooting, another debate about gun control. Something needs to change, is it more guns, or less. Either way something needs to happen. Yet guns are so deeply entwined into American culture that such change is hard


I hereby open the Debate about gun control


I believe that owning a gun should be earned. Earned in such a way as to show you are mature enough to own one. There are far, far to many immature and reckless people who should not own one yet still do. And it is getting worse, with the new "Smart Rifle" out that is so easy a 12 year old girl can hit a 3 inch disc at 500 yards

If a 12 year old can do that what could a insane person do?. tag a victim, kill him and record it, post instantly to facebook. They say the gun is smart but i look forward to a gun smart enough to turn off when confronted with a class full of kids. There's really no skill involved in shooting these. No training, just matching colors and pulling a trigger

And the second amendment argument is null and void. they said you could own muskets to defend your state, not self aiming snipers that can kill you from 1000 plus yards

I think restrictions on people are in place. A crazy person should have no place around guns, yet it keeps happening Something needs to change. But it likely never will, the NRA and gun nuts wont budge, they bully people into making decisions and it needs to stop.

We need change

Edit: Video is broken, here is link. www.youtube.com...

edit on 4-4-2014 by Idiosonic because: Broken video

Please point out other civil liberties you think should be "earned." Voting? Free speech?

Idiosonic
reply to post by beezzer

 

I live in a foreign country. It works here, no monthly mass shootings. i don't live in constant fear, i actually own guns, but not for protection. we eliminated the threat, the government hasn't become tyrannical. we have less than 10 gun murders a year. you have over 11,000

I also like you point about the first amendment. It seems that it only applies if i agree with what you are saying though. Weird .

out of curiosity, what country might that be?

it would help to get an idea of the mindset, population density, etc

beezzer

Idiosonic
reply to post by beezzer

 

I live in a foreign country. It works here, no monthly mass shootings. i don't live in constant fear, i actually own guns, but not for protection. we eliminated the threat, the government hasn't become tyrannical. we have less than 10 gun murders a year. you have over 11,000

I also like you point about the first amendment. It seems that it only applies if i agree with what you are saying though. Weird .

On the contrary. I would fight to defend your right to speak freely. Regardless of whether I agree or not.

The American culture is unique. It is one forged through the gun. The gun is simply a symbol of our freedoms.

Bad people will always do bad things, regardless of the laws put in place. Our guns provide us with the individual right to protect ourselves against criminal persons or criminal governments.

Self-reliance is big here. We eschew the nanny state and government oversight and instead prefer personal responsibility and self-determination.

that's all true, to a point...

reading the news, and watching our society function day-to-day, it's not hard to see that increasingly, we are becoming, in totality, a society that embraces the nanny state, and scoffs at the idea personal responsibility, and self determination....everyone wants everything handed to them, including defense from all ills and threats, both real and imagined...

sad, really....

reply to post by Idiosonic

I believe that owning a gun should be earned.

That’s ridiculous. Do you understand the concept of freedom? Do you know what the constitution says? Our rights are not granted by government!!!!! Stop being so scared of your neighbors. Things happen...that's freedom.

Idiosonic
reply to post by anon72

 

If you think an army of the people could defeat the government in this day and age then you are crazy.

In the Blue corner we have The U.S government. They posses Tanks, Predator drones, Laser guided missiles, Fighter jets. NUKES!

In the Red corner we have you, the people. You have some semi-auto rifles, pistols and shotguns.

AND FIGHT!!!!!!!!

the people would also have IED's and an intimate knowledge of the area, giving them a distinct advantage...

you're also failing to take into account that there is no way nukes would be deployed on american soil...even a dog knows not to s**t where it eats...

every time we have one of these discussions, the anti-gun camp always sites that the government has drones, and jets, and tanks, missiles, and bombs, and whatnot, and completely dismiss the fact that we had all those things when we went to vietnam, and afghanistan, and they didn't do a lick of good against people that were, in a lot of cases, more poorly armed than the american people....we still lost, and spent a lot of money doing it....technological superiority does not always guarantee victory...

additionally, you folks always assume that the entirety of the U.S. armed forces would obey orders to start killing their countrymen, and people they might have served with in the past....what kind of mindless zombies do you think they/we are?

any such orders would immediately trigger a civil war..

People who want to change our Constitution are the real problem in this country. Changing the Constitution is what has gotten us into the mess we are in now. The bill of rights in the Constitution is what makes the difference between the United States and swell places like Uganda. They keep us free. Every attack against any amendment in the Constitution is an attack on freedom. If you do not understand this then you do not deserve to be free and are spitting on the faces of the millions of patriots who have given their lives defending this priceless document.

For those that think the American people could not throw off this rogue government in short order i say this. What makes you think we would fight against the military which is composed of our children, brothers, sisters, fathers etc. They people causing all the problems are known, their locations are known, their faces are already in people's memories. 200 million guns looking for not more than a few thousand political figures! I think the outcome is pretty easy to see. Small third world countries have defeated our military many times! In the beginning of our country farmers defeated the most powerful army in the entire world. Like our leaders who keep underestimating the countries they attack many people underestimate the power of the American people. If the people had a leader this question would already have been answered.

Idiosonic
reply to post by anon72

 

If you think an army of the people could defeat the government in this day and age then you are crazy.

In the Blue corner we have The U.S government. They posses Tanks, Predator drones, Laser guided missiles, Fighter jets. NUKES!

In the Red corner we have you, the people. You have some semi-auto rifles, pistols and shotguns.

AND FIGHT!!!!!!!!

And all that made what difference in vietnam? How about afghanistan?

The American populous is much better prepared, and has millions with military training, asymmetric warfare is a mother.

This is of course not to mention, all that hardware your talking about is dependent on the US populous cooperating in keeping it safe.

There are not enough folks to guard all the weapons lying around over here. Many of us vets know how to use these weapons to terrible effect, and even some of their weaknesses, that those outside our armed forces would not even guess.

Your not even using most of the variables in this equation to arrive at your opinion, your just saying what you want to believe, not what the facts say.