Ukraine agrees to host NATO war games

Aloysius the Gaul

13th Zodiac
How provocative is this ?

not as provocative as seizing another country's territory.

How does voting to join Russia become seizing ? LOL.

reply to post by GreenMtnBoys


Would agree that US has spend insane amounts of funds in the defense area. But on the otherhand, 'insane' amounts of funds and equipment have been stolen or left to rust in the Russian military.

An example: In Georgia 2008, Russian Generals in the theater were using cell phones to talk with front line assets and among themselves. Battlefield communication was not available.

A detachment of VDVs had finished up battle in one sector and had started to advance towards Tblisi on the highway. There were no contacts with them until an airborne asset told the high command that our men are moving towards Tblisi. Then the high command raced a jeep on the highway to catch up and ask these units to halt and take a U turn. Like in comedy movies I guess ?? Even in these VDV echelons the ammo allocated was just only sufficient........nothing extra or nothing special........even for the elite troops. Russian pilots do not even get half the training hours vis-a-vis NATO flyers. In Georgia, Russian air force could not even jamm their own equipment that Georgian Forces were using. Hence they lost Tu-22 Bomber to Buk missile system that Uks had smuggled in to Georgia.

Russia hold parity only in nukes and if needed upto 5 Million former conscripts can be thrown into battle upon 2 weeks of refreshed training. Today's Russian forces are 750K active, 1 M reserves. Upto 4-5 M also available at short notice given past training in 2 years mandatory draft and age suitability.

Sending kids as a cannon fodder is age old Russian practice..............which is shameful atleast !!

13th Zodiac

Aloysius the Gaul

13th Zodiac
How provocative is this ?

not as provocative as seizing another country's territory.

How does voting to join Russia become seizing ? LOL.

Easily - firstly you occupy the country with your troops in a pre-panned invasion, then you beat up anyone who voices an opposing opinion, have 10 days of "campaigning" while suppressing all opposition, put up posters showing 2 options - a Russian flag and a Nazi swastika superimposed on a map of Crimea, you lie to he population about "oppression" by Ukrainian authorites, then you only allow 2 question - "Join" Russia? and "Dont' be part of Ukraine?"

See?

QuestioningDude
Nothing like poking a stirred up hornets nest with a ......... tank? Our political leaders are engaging in a game of mines bigger than yours when they should be trying to calm the situation.

As someone with a little experience in the area of self destructive tendencies our geo-political maneuvering is starting to look a little familiar.
Ridiculous.

I do agree that it is a form of dick waving, but at the same time we
need to remind Putin that we too have a dick and it still works.

Aloysius the Gaul

13th Zodiac

Aloysius the Gaul

13th Zodiac
How provocative is this ?

not as provocative as seizing another country's territory.

How does voting to join Russia become seizing ? LOL.

Easily - firstly you occupy the country with your troops in a pre-panned invasion, then you beat up anyone who voices an opposing opinion, have 10 days of "campaigning" while suppressing all opposition, put up posters showing 2 options - a Russian flag and a Nazi swastika superimposed on a map of Crimea, you lie to he population about "oppression" by Ukrainian authorites, then you only allow 2 question - "Join" Russia? and "Dont' be part of Ukraine?"

See?

See ? Yes, I'm long sighted, not short. Though, I often wear happy face Contacts.

reply to post by 13th Zodiac


Well he is right in a way the choice was Russians or Nazi's.

rigel4

QuestioningDude
Nothing like poking a stirred up hornets nest with a ......... tank? Our political leaders are engaging in a game of mines bigger than yours when they should be trying to calm the situation.

As someone with a little experience in the area of self destructive tendencies our geo-political maneuvering is starting to look a little familiar.
Ridiculous.

I do agree that it is a form of dick waving, but at the same time we
need to remind Putin that we too have a dick and it still works.

She told you size doesn't matter.Didn't she.

khnum
reply to post by 13th Zodiac

 

Well he is right in a way the choice was Russians or Nazi's.

No that's not the choice given.

Crimea had to 2 choices -
Vote to join Russia
Vote to return to the 1992 constitution of Ukraine (which was scrapped by all parties and a new constitution was passed).

The 1992 constitution was geared towards Crimea and allowed them a lot more autonomy, to the extent Crimea could do whatever it wanted regardless if it conflicted with the Ukraine constitution.

So no - Crimea was never given the option of remaining with Ukraine.

This is about US not wanting EU doing business w/ Russia & taking over the Energy market there. This in turn will preserve the American dollar as the world's reserve currency. Well, they're planning that this is how it'll turn out. . .

The value of European-Russian bilateral trade stands at over one trillion dollars annually which is around ten times more than that of the trade between US and Russia, he added.

link

JWash
This is about US not wanting EU doing business w/ Russia & taking over the Energy market there. This in turn will preserve the American dollar as the world's reserve currency. Well, they're planning that this is how it'll turn out. . .

The value of European-Russian bilateral trade stands at over one trillion dollars annually which is around ten times more than that of the trade between US and Russia, he added.

link

Germany is Russia's largest trading partner in Europe and they do about 60 billion dollars a year. If Germany has the largest trade amount Im not sure how PressTV is getting the 1 trillion dollar number. Most likely pulling it out of thin air, but that's just a guess.

reply to post by Xcathdra


Reuters is giving a different number. But I'm sure it's somewhere in the middle.

Russia today is Europe's biggest supplier of oil, coal and natural gas, meeting around a third of demand for all those fuels, according to Eurostat data, and receiving in return a thumping $250 billion a year.

Either way Russia has a stranglehold on Energy within EU. . . And US/EU doesn't like that at all.

JWash
This is about US not wanting EU doing business w/ Russia & taking over the Energy market there. This in turn will preserve the American dollar as the world's reserve currency. Well, they're planning that this is how it'll turn out. . .

the EU was more than happy to take Russian gas and oil for decades - if Crimea hadn't happened then that would continue.

however now the EU is looking for alternatives to Russian energy (Google search) - fracking has opened up a lot more gas reserves - Norway is being pressured to ship more, as far away as New Zealand moer areas are being opened up for hydrocarbon exploration.

Russia might well have done itself a power of harm in the medium-longer term by upsetting its best paying customers.

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul



This development is an interesting left turn...
Source - The Motley Fool - background info on the site.
America May Have Just Unveiled a New Weapon to Combat Russia's Action in Ukraine

That is what makes the recent "test sale" of 5 million barrels of oil so intriguing. This is the first time since 1990 that there has been a test sale from the SPR, which just happens so coincide with the time there was concern that Iraq could invade Saudi Arabia. While correlation does not always mean causation, the release of those 5 million barrels coincided with a 2.7% drop in crude oil prices.

Hit 'em where it hurts -- their wallet
It's no secret that Russia is one of the world's leading exporters of oil and gas. It exports about 8.5 million barrels per day of crude oil and refined petroleum products, as well as 19.3% of the worlds natural gas exports. What is less known is Russia's nearly crippling dependence on oil and gas revenues to pay the bills. The $662.3 billion petroleum industry in Russia represents 26.5% of GDP, and over 50% of the federal government's revenue comes from royalties. Unfortunately for Russia, its oil doesn't come cheap. Even with oil at $100 per barrel and current production levels, the country projects only 1.8% GDP growth, and if oil were to fall any lower it would force massive federal budget cuts.

So what exactly would releasing oil from there do? Let's say U.S. production and imports from Canada and Mexico were to hold place. The U.S. would need to release about 950,000 barrels per day to meet all of the United States' current demand. Based on the SPR's 727 million barrels in storage, we could do this for well over two years and drive down global prices significantly. Surprisingly, though, we don't even need to go to that extreme. According to economist Phillip Verleger in a recent Quartz article, if the U.S. were to release only 500,000 barrels per day from the SPR, it would lead to a $10 drop in oil prices and would cost Russia $40 billion in sales. At this pace, we could maintain this pace for more than four years and could potentially cause Russia's GDP to drop by 4%.

Click link for remainder of article. The section above is from the middle of the article and gets to the main point.

OMG lol

The posts in here are just delusional

As members has already stated, Ukraine can and will do what ever it wants in its own country, Ukraine should not feel threatened because the Ukrainian people wanted closer ties with the EU, that's just pure bulling and it will not be tolerated under any circumstances, it sound to ME people think it's so crazy and April fool because it will offend Russia that's just flat out sticking up for the bully and cowardly

They'll just have to deal with it I guess, this is far far from over

Just for crucial information:

US uses 20 million barrels of oil everyday. It is not 1 million barrels per day

en.wikipedia.org...
As of December 21, 2012, the inventory was 694.9 million barrels (110,480,000 m3). This equates to 36 days of oil at current daily US consumption levels of 19.5 million barrels per day (3,100,000 m3/d)

The dude above is playing the disinformation games that CIA and US Govt. does to create civil wars in other countries, SHAMEFUL !!

Strategic Petroluem Reserves are roughly 700 million barrels

It takes oil prices at $100 per barrel to keep Russian budget balanced

It takes $85 per barrel to keep Saudi budget balanced

Any attempts to lower oil prices by more than $10 would result in Saudi backlash.

Same attempts will instigate other Geopolitical behind the scene venture by Russia and allies that would increase oil prices way higher.

Seems in the oil prices Russia has more than a few levers to pull in its favor

FURTHERMORE

According to the World Factbook, the United States imports a net 12 million barrels (1,900,000 m3) of oil a day (MMbd), so the SPR holds about a 58-day supply. However, the maximum total withdrawal capability from the SPR is only 4.4 million barrels (700,000 m3) per day, so it would take over 160 days to utilize the entire inventory.

Maximum daily withdrawl is only 4.4 million barrels. Go and do your own mathematics !!

13th Zodiac

Aloysius the Gaul

13th Zodiac
How provocative is this ?

not as provocative as seizing another country's territory.

How does voting to join Russia become seizing ? LOL.

How many democratic sovereign countries have been invaded by a foreign country denying that country control via a military occupation of its own land to hold illegal elections?

LOL how many? Is it common practise ?

And then after having voted 123% in favour

And Also allowing foreign troops a vote claiming it to be legit?

Stop ignoring the facts please

Your just looking ignorant and silly now, only the WORLDS media witnessed and reported the whole show and the international community condemns it bar you lunatics? OK

Sheesh

Xcathdra
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

 

This development is an interesting left turn...
Source - The Motley Fool - background info on the site.
America May Have Just Unveiled a New Weapon to Combat Russia's Action in Ukraine

That is what makes the recent "test sale" of 5 million barrels of oil so intriguing. This is the first time since 1990 that there has been a test sale from the SPR, which just happens so coincide with the time there was concern that Iraq could invade Saudi Arabia. While correlation does not always mean causation, the release of those 5 million barrels coincided with a 2.7% drop in crude oil prices.

Hit 'em where it hurts -- their wallet
It's no secret that Russia is one of the world's leading exporters of oil and gas. It exports about 8.5 million barrels per day of crude oil and refined petroleum products, as well as 19.3% of the worlds natural gas exports. What is less known is Russia's nearly crippling dependence on oil and gas revenues to pay the bills. The $662.3 billion petroleum industry in Russia represents 26.5% of GDP, and over 50% of the federal government's revenue comes from royalties. Unfortunately for Russia, its oil doesn't come cheap. Even with oil at $100 per barrel and current production levels, the country projects only 1.8% GDP growth, and if oil were to fall any lower it would force massive federal budget cuts.

So what exactly would releasing oil from there do? Let's say U.S. production and imports from Canada and Mexico were to hold place. The U.S. would need to release about 950,000 barrels per day to meet all of the United States' current demand. Based on the SPR's 727 million barrels in storage, we could do this for well over two years and drive down global prices significantly. Surprisingly, though, we don't even need to go to that extreme. According to economist Phillip Verleger in a recent Quartz article, if the U.S. were to release only 500,000 barrels per day from the SPR, it would lead to a $10 drop in oil prices and would cost Russia $40 billion in sales. At this pace, we could maintain this pace for more than four years and could potentially cause Russia's GDP to drop by 4%.

Click link for remainder of article. The section above is from the middle of the article and gets to the main point.

edit on 1-4-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)

And pump prices will remain the same no doubt. This just sheds more light on how they can use reserves to extort other nations but when it comes to easing the suffering at the pumps, it is no dice.

Thank you for pointing out how truly twisted a western government and the corporations that purchased them really are.

DarknStormy
reply to post by MrMaybeNot

 

Paranoid Western leaders.. Crimea voted to return to Russia and that's where it should end. Maybe the Russians were just waiting for crap like this to happen so they are not caught off guard.

Crimea belongs to Ukraine. You can't take country by force and have trumped election without allowing monitoring and expect anyone to recognize it.

Plus to others, we have been helping their military for years now. Encouraging and helping train them. This is not new, we have been helping them all along. We have been helping them and they have been working toward joining nato for years. This is nothing new.

Putrid been whining and crying about the old USSR for years. Bitter little man lol. Crazy, the Russians i know don't want to continue to go backwards, they are getting beat in the streets and arrested and whisked away in the middle of the night again. Most are very afraid, putrid represents all the dark things they thought they had escaped. Lol...

The Bot

reply to post by dlbott


Write all this or that you want.........but...........if Ukraine joins the NATO

then

All the Hell will break Loose !!

So let's hope Uks remain neutral territory for the good of all !!

Xcathdra


Exactly at what point did you / anyone else decide Ukraine, being a sovereign nation, can't act in their own best interest.

Russia invaded Ukraine. Ukraine can host whatever nation it wants inside its territory and trying to argue the contrary just undermines Russia's position even more.

What Ukraine does inside its own borders is no one else's business, including Russia's.


No, it would be the response to 40-80k Russian troops arrayed along Ukraines border.

Exactly where does that fit in with your provocation scale?

edit on 1-4-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)

Total agreement. If Russia can have an invasion sized force with all the tools for invasion (missiles, helicopters, tanks, ect) parked on the Ukrainian border doing "exercises", then the Ukraine can invite whoever the hell they want to train and exercise their own forces.

Or has everyone forgotten the fact that NATO did sign a defense treaty with the Ukraine? It is no more provacative for NATO to be there than it is for the Russians to put 40k troops right on Ukraine's doorstep. If anything, we see the Russians doing the provoking. They should have quit while they were ahead after they got Crimea.