Police video of killing an illegal camper.

DeadSeraph
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

Look my man, I lament the fact the guy is dead. I really do. It's not like I am trying to say he deserved to die, because he didn't. I'm sure every officer involved in his death feels the same way. What I am trying to point out, is that under police procedure and even in most peoples minds as to what self defense is, the actions taken were justifiable. Could they have been better planned? sure. Could they have been better executed? Absolutely. But in the end, I do not feel it was murder, given the circumstances. Not even for a second, after watching the video countless times.

Ill be as callous as you are and hope that you get similar treatment from the police someday.
This is getting more and more standard procedure, I wonder if cops in british style, unarmed, would be a good step.

reply to post by Biigs


Do so elsewhere.

reply to post by DeadSeraph


Indeed.... Intelligent people can fully understand each other, and sincerely disagree with passion.

We do. On both. No hard feelings...but no agreement either. Nor, I fear, will there be on this one. Perhaps it's a pure matter of life experience to color perception of events, at some point.

However that works, for how we can see the same event very differently, I don't know any of those Officers or the man who was killed for it to be personal. So, agreeing to disagree works.

DeadSeraph
reply to post by Biigs

 

Do so elsewhere.

scared of a little honest debate?

if you think this was justified and you own a gun, let me tell you i hope i never find myself anywhere near your property.

justified means of force yes.
random acts of unjustified violence and murder, hell no. you arnt a judge or a jury.

reply to post by Yusomad


How am I being callous? WOW.

You people really are something else. Only capable of seeing one side of any given story yet claiming you are denying ignorance. In-#*!$ing-credible.

Go read. It would do you some good. Once you're caught up, read everything I said without a head full of BS and actually consider what I am saying. Take off your tinfoil hat if it helps.

Biigs

DeadSeraph
reply to post by Biigs

 

Do so elsewhere.

scared of a little honest debate?

if you think this was justified and you own a gun, let me tell you i hope i never find myself anywhere near your property.

justified means of force yes.
random acts of unjustified violence and murder, hell no. you arnt a judge or a jury.

Not scared at all. This isn't about me or if I am fit to own a gun. Your opinion of me does not mean sweet @*$! all in that regard. Personally I think it's hilarious how you want to dictate what is and isn't self defense in the name of freedom, and now you are trying to call into question if I should or shouldn't own a firearm. You are right. You shouldn't show up on my property.

reply to post by DeadSeraph


it wasnt a personal attack specifically, im just saying that your views of fair play and freedom are screwed and that due to your opinions i would not like to accidentally be caught on your land because i have no doubt you would kill me regardless.

i appreciate your comments and i do not wish to get into a fist fight over this, but your views are very much bias towards cops even in the face of heavy evidence to say that they went too far, im scared which is why i regard you as dangerous.

this is a public forum and i invite a good debate even if i disagree.

reply to post by 727Sky


I don't really get this. There is obviously more to it than a person camping illegally.

Why were the cops carrying flash bang type grenades and assault rifles? Seems a bit over the top for dealing with an illegal camper. Unless of course, the camper was involved in much more dangerous activities than any of the information provided tells us.

In fact, when it comes to information, there isn't much provided at all unless I'm missing something.

At the end of the day, there's not enough information to make a properly informed comment but, based on what was seen, shooting him for having a knife when the distance between them is so great does seem a tad over the top.

HanzHenry

DeadSeraph
reply to post by 727Sky

 

I would suggest anyone watching this video and finds themselves being given a command to get on the ground by an armed member of the local yokels drop whatever you are doing and do as commanded...

That is usually the sensical thing to do. As opposed to, you know... brandishing your knife against armed police? The guy clearly assumes an aggressive posture and raises his arm up (the one he's holding his knife with) as if he's going to stab either the dog or the officer approaching him. Sucks he got shot, but if I have multiple police officers pointing assault rifles at me screaming at me to get down on the ground, chances are I'm going to comply unless I actually want to get shot.

edit on 22-3-2014 by DeadSeraph because: (no reason given)

Isnt that what taser are for?

extremely cowardly to shoot a guy in that situation, then again being a cop is extremely cowardly when your job entails assaulting the Bill of Rights as part of your daily duties

Its funny and sad that LEO's carry a taser and yet EVER use them except the righteous police officers?

~Why wasn't a taser used?
~why was excessive force used?

It was like a swat team pulling over a 85 year old woman for 8 MPH over the limit.

Sad, sad, sad.

And to Deadseraph: (The rest is meant for you) Your logic is ill and poorly thought out.

Are you a police officer? You have the thought of one IMO.

I hope that you do not own a gun, and not support Osama, but your post suggest otherwise IMO

again I stop here because I'm so borderline of Patriotic Influenced Emotional garbble, that you will never understand. Logic in the simplest form evades your thought process.

LAME..........

iskander683
reply to post by 727Sky

 

I don't really get this. There is obviously more to it than a person camping illegally.

Why were the cops carrying flash bang type grenades and assault rifles? Seems a bit over the top for dealing with an illegal camper. Unless of course, the camper was involved in much more dangerous activities than any of the information provided tells us.

In fact, when it comes to information, there isn't much provided at all unless I'm missing something.

At the end of the day, there's not enough information to make a properly informed comment but, based on what was seen, shooting him for having a knife when the distance between them is so great does seem a tad over the top.

Doesn't matter really. The concept of "who's gives a crap and do want you want" is the new revolution of the evil army of negative influence.

If you know anything of the Nazis, its not much different of the modern USA IMO

Just wait till your arrested for eating too much, white, believe in yourself, drive to work, or hold a knife in your hand when threatened by three men aggressively tell you they don't like what your doing in a place you may not know.

Obama is not helping MY country. He should personally apologize for this happening in America... Jeez, if only the victim was black. The whole world would know about this event.

My POTUS is an Ass, Shame on him not to do the right thing....Arrggghhhh

The guy had a 20 year history of violence , aggression AND mental illness.
That seems to be a repeating theme in an awful lot of these tragic scenarios.
I don't know what the solution is, or if there even is one, to all of the 'loose canons' flooding society. There are a couple in the small town where I live ( less than 300 population), and so far it hasn't come to such a dangerous point. But it will, and there are no laws to protect the public from their illness, or them from what will happen when the day comes that they cross the line, and qualify for jail or commitment. It's like living with a time bomb in the neighborhood.

If a mountain lion or bear were to come too close to town, it would be tranquilized and dealt with, for public safety. It's 'inhumane' to treat a person like that.?!What is so wrong with a tranquilizer dart for ''combative' individuals? I guess shooting them is a more humane choice.

O.T.
I really think we need an island somewhere for repeat offenders. The prison population could grow their own food, make their own cloths, choose their own ruling government. They could live the lawless life they chose to live while in society, or learn how to work as a team and be productive for the sake of their survival.
The choice would be theirs; the benefits in increased safety, and savings in tax dollars, would be ours.

reply to post by AK907ICECOLD


Think you missed the point of my post......

reply to post by iskander683


Give me a sec friend and I'll re-read it. No means of insult or understanding.

reply to post by 727Sky


And again, common sense alludes the victim in the video. "A squad full of officers with firearms and a dog, better get my knife out as this will surely end in my favor".

With that being said, why in the h*** are there that many cops out there brandishing firearms for a guy camping? I'm sure a single cop could cruise out there, have a seat next to him and say, "Listen buddy, I know times are tough or whatever. But I got a job to do and you can't be here. Maybe I can help you find a place to legally camp or shelter". I will guarantee you that the guy probably would have gone along with it and the cop would have come out unharmed.

I'm just going to leave this thread shaking my head at both the victim and the police in this case.

reply to post by iskander683


Okay... LOL

It's more of a rant about this video friend. No offense to you, but with what I get to see the LEO's were in the wrong.

If there's a vid of lets say your daughter and I shoot her in the face. It only shows me blowing her head off but not anything prior or afterwards. Its the fact that that judgement was done by me when if attacked by her in self defense. Me with a brain would take a a better approach.

A officer with good training, good heart, clean soul, etc would have NEVER acted this way.

If your a good person in life, this vid will sicken you.

If your a " I don't give a s***" person you will argue against it. Plain and simple IMO.

Does that work for you?

I want to say there is case law against this very thing where...the situation is under control but the officer escalates it into deadly force. I ll try to find the case...now they blur out the part in the end before the shots are fired but from what I saw.....the situation is calm....and then they escalate it...

On the other side...a knife is just as deadly as a gun and you can enclose on someone very quickly....so shooting a man with a raised knife may not be the issue. The issue is they escalated the situation. As far as im concerned you negotiate until you physically cant any more. The dude appears to be in the middle of no where...which brings up another point. How did a 3 heavily armed officers randomly come up on this guy? Was this guy causing disturbances? There is more to this...and it will be interesting how it plays out. It is a tough scenario for sure.

-ex cop with 10yrs experience

DeadSeraph
People on ATS have issues with authority and while they are busy bitching about "TPTB" and the "MSM" they can't be bothered to pull their own heads out of their asses long enough to realize that not all cops enjoy shooting people, and not all authority figures are in it just to tell you what to do. -- snip --
Clearly, there is no middle ground.

There's almost always some middle ground. Sadly, the current atmosphere has the general population feeling so confused and threatened that they tend to act like a herd of cornered animals. It isn't possible to change or legally react to what is going on so, since the beast(s) that have them cornered are untouchable, they snap at each other out of frustration.

I have a lifelong friend who worked his way up from security work to being chief of police of our little town here in fly-over country for almost 30 years. He is a good man and our local police were either lifelong residents or newcomers that respected his authority and treated the locals just like their peers (I'm talking about the other hometown police).

That's changed drastically in the last few years. One of our sons got pushed into a brick wall by two officers a few years ago (9?). What was his crime? He was a high school kid and when the "Walk" sign came on he'd jogged across the street instead of walking. That was at the stoplight at the main intersection in our town. He's stopped to wait for his buddies when he was on the curb, so they couldn't have thought he was running from some sort of crime.

After blocking traffic by parking cock-eyed in the street, two officers jumped out and pinned him against that wall. (This was about 9:30PM) When they asked him what he was trying to prove, he told them he'd just been goofing around. One officers said, "[My friend] isn't chief anymore and you punks are gonna find out that isn't a Good Ol' Boy town anymore!" Then after they'd released him the other officer had to give him one more shove just to make his point.

I have another friend that shattered his left knee in a wreck many years ago. Everybody in town knows he walks with a limp. One night he came out of the convenience store to see two patrol cars parked on either side of his. Before he had a chance to ask anything, one yelled, "Don't go near that car!" He not a young man, but he can take care of himself. I don't blame him for asking what was going on. One of them yelled back that someone had called in that someone had been seen staggering into the store.

Without anything else taking place, he was ordered to turn and face the wall and place his hands behind his back. That's when he told them he had a limp because of a bad knee.

As one of the officers started toward him while reaching behind his back, he said, "What? Now you're gonna shoot me???" Nope, they tazed him...

It isn't so much having a problem with authority figures as it is not enjoying being shat upon. The people in charge remind me of what I asked my friend, "If they hate the people of this town so much, why did they move here and take the job?"

reply to post by 727Sky

Let's see ....three military- like armed thugs with a dog can't deal with a camper with a back pack without killing him ? Let's put ourselves in a hypothetical scenario....we're in this video too, up in the rocks concealed ,with an AR-10 watching all this develop. Would you have any qualms about dropping those three thugs, regardless of who they are ? Just wondering ! Senseless murder deserves an immediate response. Any of you remember what street justice is ?

iskander683
reply to post by AK907ICECOLD

 

Think you missed the point of my post......

it doesn't matter to them the circumstances, or context, of the clip shown. this is why propaganda is so effective. they have a certain mindset, and all you have to do is selectively edit the media fed to them, that fits that mindset to achieve the desired results.....do this hundreds of times over and over, and any type of reason is lost, and paranoid suspicion becomes the defacto belief.

DeadSeraph
-- snip --
I do not jump on the "#&$ the police" bandwagon that is ATS.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Just so you and I understand each other, there IS middle ground and the fact that I may disagree with you or possibly the actions of someone in a position of authority does not mean that I am someone who can be pigeonholed in having only one position. You've made some good points and I gave you a star for your restraint. It's nice to see someone state their views without becoming obnoxious, even when feeling outnumbered.

When my twin brother was killed by a state trooper who was abusing the use of his equipment and authority, I paid dearly for making comments that were considered as defending him in a public forum. Our own state police investigated the crash (I refuse to call it an accident) and stated in court that he'd been traveling with no lights (the Red and Blue) or siren activated and was doing about 125mph when he took his foot off the gas. My brother (and his fellow employees) had to cross two lanes of oncoming traffic to enter the plant parking lot. My brother worked nights and the inspector said that he'd only had 1 to 1/2 seconds to realize one set of headlights was traveling much, much faster than all the others. He was estimated to have been going about 95mph when he T-Boned my brother. He almost drove all the way through his jeep.

Still, when others were gloating about his conviction, I was the one pointing out that he hadn't been given a capital sentence and everyone should calm down and just let it go. (He wound up serving 8 months of a 4 year vehicular manslaughter conviction and 2 year conviction for false reporting. [He had claimed he was chasing a speeder but too many witnesses came forward to rebutt that] ]