The Joy of the Pharaohs

Thurisaz


perhaps just like other People around the globe they had a joy of sex?

Sure, sure...it was the Joy of Pharaohs. But what we're asking here, is how they know what sperm looks like.

Cmon folks, be a little more focused with your replies.

avriel
I am the poster that mentioned the tour guide showing me the image of the Pharaoh ejaculating at Luxor temple. As well as the image that you have found I have an image of a second depiction of the sperm within the temple.i will post the images here. the first is a picture of the relief in general and the second is a close up of the area showing the sperm. The Sperm itself can be seen in the second image just left of centre at the top of the image
[snipped]

edit on Sat Mar 22 2014 by DontTreadOnMe because: images removed

edit on 22/3/2014 by avriel because: edit to include thumbnails of images and not full images

Thanks for stopping by. I do see the sperm in the second picture.

reply to post by Skyfloating

But what we're asking here, is how they know what sperm looks like.

Given that it is a spermatozoa in the first place, which it is not.

You guys realize that you are by default not only discussing that hieroglyph that you think is a sperm, you are discussing that hieroglyph that you think is a sperm, microscopy, the Nile and disease.

I'm standing by to find out what sort of method that the "microscopy folks" on the thread think that the ancient Egyptians used to visualize the alleged "sperm".

In the meantime, BigFatFurryTexan is looking for some etymology or phonesis related to the hieroglyph I posted for "O". I found a decent list of hieroglyphs on WikiPedia and it looks like it is pronounce "ou".

en.wikipedia.org...:_A%E2%80%93L

P.S. Also, it's a "lasso" not a lotus flower; I was mistaken.

Skyfloating

LUXUS


I have only read the op so I'm sure this has been said, but its a jar of liquid being spilled not a sperm

Are you sure you looked at the picture in the OP? Its been removed by the Mods so there will be a link to click. The liquid is coming directly out of his....well, I dont want this post to get removed, so I`ll say this much: Its coming straight out of his body, not out of a jar.

Yes I did click on the picture that's how I knew it was a jar, I could see the flat rim of the jar.

Bybyots

In the meantime, BigFatFurryTexan is looking for some etymology or phonesis related to the hireoeglyph I posted for "O". I found a decent list of hieroglyphs on WikiPedia and it looks like it is pronounce "ou".

It doesnt look like that hieroglyph, nor as if he is "ejaculating through an O", so I think the good texan is wasting his time.

It looks exactly like what it shows. A person ejaculating, along with the magnified version of what he is ejaculating.

Sometimes the most obvious and simple explanations are the correct ones.

LUXUS

Yes I did click on the picture that's how I knew it was a jar, I could see the flat rim of the jar.

Where's the jar?

reply to post by Skyfloating

It looks exactly like what it shows. A person ejaculating, along with the magnified version of what he is ejaculating.

Great, so lets get down to how you think that they saw the sperm.

I'm honestly interested, Skyfloating. A question that I have had for a very long time is "How are the properties of medicinal herbs discovered".

The ancient Egyptians didn't have microscopes, so if it's a sperm, then how did they see it?

Medical intuition fascinates me and I have wondered if there might have been a time when it was more acute.

I am also reminded of a story from Secret Life of Plants that involved a very sensitive woman that was able to travel "psychically" throughout the tiny microscopic structures of plants.

reply to post by Bybyots


While perusing your link a little, i noticed that the symbol for "fruit basket" or 'basket' looks remarkably similar to the cups in the image that the OP is talking about. Basically, fluted bottomed containers.

Skyfloating

LUXUS

Yes I did click on the picture that's how I knew it was a jar, I could see the flat rim of the jar.

Where's the jar?

Maybe you don't want to see the jar. that's why you cant see it

LUXUS


Maybe you don't want to see the jar. that's why you cant see it

One line is the spray of "water" coming from his erejection. The other line goes up to an oval object. Which of those is a jar?

Bybyots


Great, so lets get down to how you think that they saw the sperm.

I had never considered your idea of "medical intuition". Interesting.

Magnifying glasses are another option.

Of course I`m not ruling out your suggestion either.

We can't even rule out vandalism or fakery.

If you ask me, then they had means of finding it out that we may not know or understand.

I had a discussion with the same guide that pointed out the sperm after visiting Kom Ombo temple about Egyptian medical knowledge. (Kom Ombo has a relief that depict various medical instruments used by the ancient Egyptians as well as instructions on how to make up various prescriptions) We moved on to their knowledge of human and animal Anatomy, and how some Egyptologists theorized that they were using Oxen lenses as magnifying glasses. It could be a possibility that OX lenses stacked on Ox lenses could provide just enough magnification to see a spermatozoa. It's unlikely, but it is one theory.

reply to post by Skyfloating

If you ask me, then they had means of finding it out that we may not know or understand.

I always hold out a little "swap space" for that possibility and I have for years and years enjoyed trying to figure out how it might be possible for people to sort of "remote view" the anatomy and physiology of the human body. Over the years I have accumulated a lot of stuff to think about under the heading of "Medical Intuition".

I'm a life-long learner, like you and a lot of others on the thread, and I have always found it fascinating that life seems to put experiences in front of people like us that seem for all the world as though they are guiding us down a track and that for our effort some guiding force has decided to help us down that track.

I have worked in the medical field my entire adult life and once I did have an experience involving visual acuity that really left me wondering what the body-mind complex is really capable of under the right conditions.

Magnifying glasses are another option.

A couple of things:

1. They certainly are (not. see below*). I spent the tail-end of last night after homework putting together a post to illustrate what can and cannot be seen by a light microscope.

As cells go sperm are huge, so are RBCs, both at about 50 microns.

Could not step away from the computer without feeling as though a magnifying glass or system of magnifying glasses would be able to see sperm. The human egg can be seen with the naked eye and is 30X larger than the sperm.

2. Pretty sure we can reject the "B" or "ou".

If it's a hieroglyphic figure, which it is, then we are likely dealing with this...



...not this:






*ETA: Like most ATS threads that get good, the upshot is really how much a person with little education like myself would have to learn to totally debunk the microscopy question.

As it stands right now we must remove magnifying glasses from the table of possibilities. I was wrong and just found out how wrong.

Even our most powerful magnifying glasses, at 64X, are not powerful enough to allow us to see sperm. 64X would get us less than half the needed magnification.

But seriously, at this point I can't spend the day learning enough about optics to flesh this out. there has to be an ATS microscopy or optics expert or two standing by giggling at us right now.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

While perusing your link a little, i noticed that the symbol for "fruit basket" or 'basket' looks remarkably similar to the cups in the image that the OP is talking about.

Everyone loves a fruit basket, right?

Bybyots

once I did have an experience involving visual acuity that really left me wondering what the body-mind complex is really capable of under the right conditions.

Have you authored a thread on this? If not, would you? You have my attention.

LUXUS

Skyfloating

LUXUS

Yes I did click on the picture that's how I knew it was a jar, I could see the flat rim of the jar.

Where's the jar?

Maybe you don't want to see the jar. that's why you cant see it

Very interesting, Luxus. Your image looks like a pouring of water from a vessel, just like the hieroglyph in Bybyots post above mine, but instead of pouring to the left, it is pouring to the right. Not sure if they had any intended significance in the direction it is pouring.

But that is interesting. Had you not mentioned it, I wouldn't have noticed it. But even the line that is extending down...it zigzags slightly, just like the symbol Bybyots posted.

I agree....we are not seeing sperm. we are seeing the pouring of water over the stream of ejaculate from the pharaoh.

ETA: graphical help:

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


Wanna do a medical intuition thread? Okay, but I'll have to piece it together between other stuff. Homework procrastination is a powerful force, so who knows, but yeah, okay, let's. I'll PM you when it's up.

bigfatfurrytexan
I agree....we are not seeing sperm. we are seeing the pouring of water over the stream of ejaculate from the pharaoh.

I think that abeverage first pointed out that it might be the hieroglyph for pouring, but the context that you provide makes some sense if you consider the Opet Festival. Amun-Min, was an unseen, all-powerful, sky god and as such brought fertility to the land through the ejaculation of his 'seed' via rain. The pouring aspect can then be seen as the feminine aspect, the vessel of the land (if you look just above you will see the little mound hieroglyph which meand land or the terrestrial plane) pouring forth the waters of the Nile. Their mingling 'waters', combined, producing the fertility required for the crop.

At the Opet festival, the Pharoah, dressed, and assuming the earthly role of Amun-Min, would masturbate into the Nile as a precursor to the flooding. It was pure sympathetic magic, the representative on earth offering imitation of what they hoped and expected of the gods.

Nice thread Sky

reply to post by Bybyots


Well you convinced me. Magnifying glasses are out and I now understand why they are out.

Nice work.