Petrodollar Alert: Putin Prepares To Announce "Holy Grail" Gas Deal With China

reply to post by Yusomad


Ah, OK, thank you
I did say it was the first of many sources, so I just went with that one thinking it would be OK......NM......see what I did there

Rainbows
Jane

Why would Russia turn off the gas to Europe?
as long as they are paying, he'll keep the gas pumping.

reply to post by angelchemuel


They are secretly allied. George Bush Sr. was the former ambassador to China and they made an agreement to allow them to take our manufacturing business. We don't give China business for free, everything has a purpose. That's why the US wants to control middle eastern oil, u control the energy resources u control the countries that need the supply. It works in the same way.

reply to post by swanne


Thank satan really. lets get on with it already tired of hearing about it. aren't you?

Excellent postings, Angel. Many Americans will come on here to deny that there'll be any problem, because they are under the illusion that they are really self-sufficient and have huge reserves of frackable gas and oil to dig up...no matter what the cost.

However, what many Americans fail to take on board is that their wealth and level of lifestyle is paid for by the rest of the world whilst it uses the American dollar as the world's reserve currency. I expect the dollar to lose that status in the not-too-distant-future as countries begin to use other currencies to pay for their energy. While the Fed has been printing money as if there was no tomorrow, the reserve currency status has bouyed the dollar artificially, keeping it from falling into devalue and deflation. The loss of reserve status would plunge the US economy into utter irrecoverable chaos, and Americans would go to bed thinking they are still the richest country in the world, and wake up in the morning as one of the poorest with the greatest debt and unable to pay it...the American dollar would then die utterly worthless, plunging the whole country into destitution.

Denial is a wonderful comfort blanket until reality tears it to shreds.

This isn't about the supply of petroleum, as many here have suggested, but the fate of the petrodollar. The reason the U.S. can print out $17 trillion of debt without rendering the currency worthless is because oil is traded exclusively in U.S. dollars, ensuring worldwide demand. Once that monopoly is broken, however, the U.S. won't be able to continue funding its military at anywhere close to current levels, and will suffer a commensurate loss of global power projection.

This was inevitable. The only question is whether the American Empire will end with a bang or a whimper.

reply to post by angelchemuel


You people forget that Asia is a very large and self-contained continent.

If Asians work out a way to live peacefully, USA and Europe will become irrelevant.

Russia is only a part of the picture. The economic powerhouse of East Asia can very much use Russian minerals. Russia gets consumer goods in return that should be enough to keep Russian population in good humour.

I predicted this would happen last week .. Great move by Russia

reply to post by GrassyTroll


(sigh) ...yeah. This is the point in the process where I imagine Obama slapping Putin across the cheek, while below the sight line, Putin drives a steel toe boot where it's felt the most. This was the big whammy to play, because if successful in economics? It'd be the big slam for us.

You're right. We've been able to play fantasy money with no consequence like we own the world because...in a way? Well? USD is a world standard, after all. If it loses standard benchmark status? Well... I live in a state and near enough to those I need, to barter my meat, cheese and dairy for the dark period which may be coming...again, IF any of this actually works.

I can't help but think, and not for the first time in the last month or two..... Glenn Beck said early on, and before he went a little kooky in my opinion, we'd go to bed on a Friday, wake up on a Monday and find a whole different world for the paradigm shift, when it came.

I wonder... are we soon to see it? I may envy my ex-pat friends.

all I see is jealousy and outright hatred by quiet a few US members.....for some reason that I don't understand....just check out all the present threads about Russia in the last month...

as an outsider...reading ATS ...I get the distinct feeling that many of the US posters are unable to accept different cultures, different peoples and different ways of living....

it's really sad and disheartening to see such close mindedness.....maybe it's the ignorance of the youthful posters who haven't experience life outside of their country and don't know any better....

if Russia and China work out a mutually beneficial trade agreement....well good on them and it's nobody else's business....

I see many European and Asian countries moving ahead now and in the future....I also see some countries not being so fortunate because of poor management and internal problems.......that is life...

peace to all....

reply to post by angelchemuel


Putin can play his games all he wants. We in America have a hell of a lot of gas and oil that hardly anyone wants to admit. We could supply Europe without any problems. It would be the icing on the cake. Cut off Russia's oil exports to everyone but China, Pakistan and India. That will pucker him up. The Saudis, Iraq and opec do not need Russia for jack. They would love to cripple Russia's oil market cause that is more money for them.

We hold the trump card sitting on the worlds largest oil and gas reserves. The FED just always makes people think we are running out of oil to keep the price up, that is how they make their money to loan us for whatever we need and that is why we do not really care about the debt owed.

I agree with slayer on this one. The US hasn't shown its real hand
outright about energy supplies, but there again we shouldn't until
the need arises. In reality this political situation is a horrid thing
no matter the truth behind energy reserves.

Things they are a changing but i think many will be surprised by
some of the things they will learn over the next 10 years. Our
economy is still doomed for sure but that's a global issue and not
a local one so its kinda a knee capping all around.

Nice post. Plausible. Seeing Russia & China as "Scary" beause they're working together? Now I can relax and laugh. If russia wants to burn they're own fuel by selling it to they're ETERNAL enemies, that's a WIN for the "Free" world, which is purported to contain a place called "Europe". The whole "we're gonna , burn up all the fossil fuels and there will be chaos" comes from the same school of thought as "Global Warming" and "Another real housewives series might not be a BAD idea" ! Thinking long range? I could car less. I study history. Angry Monkeys are INCAPABLE of thinking "Long Range". Proof. The Romans/The British Empire, NASA/Mars Rovers. Telephone numbers (in the parlance of technology Area/Country codes are a "New" idea. Apparently something called "Simple Math" never existed) and on and on. So yeah. Making the enemy use up they're own fuel, and then destroying they're reserves? It worked against the NAZI's and it worked against the Japanese. Plus, there's this stuff called "Hydrogen", the Universe is practically made of it, and HEY PRESTO! it makes a great, useable every day fuel. Also, nuclear power. For what it produces? Safest form of mass energy every devised by man. FACT. Letting general electric design the reactors your going to install on the seashore, in a Tsunami/Fault zone? Proof again, angry monkey can't think much past it's last meal. Anyway. Why would ANYONE want to piss of the U.S.? WE HAVE NUKED PEOPLE BEFORE! and if you haven't noticed, we didn't hesitate back then. When push comes to shove? Push the button! But that's just stupid too. Like Devo says, it's a beautiful world. When we get to the point were we all realize the people are in charge, not the hired hands, we'll have a Devo planet, a Federation, and the tools and the talent to make the Klingons WANT to hang out with us! But again, a good post that, SURPRISE, shows a remarkable lack of long range thinking! Russia - People got pissed and took down the government. Result. Another government, just as bad as the last one! China - All the "people" there have to do, is what the russians did. They definitely have the numbers,, on they're side! I can't wait to see THAT day! We'll get it right eventualy, I think. We have smart phones. Someone can write an app that says "Hey, angry monkey, think ahead" who knows, it may be as simple as that. I like the World. I've been lucky to "live some place else". I think countries OTHER than the U.S. have some great ideas, like Glen Fiddich and Curry Roles! I'm hopeful, and if things aren't going so well? I can always get drunk. I won't be thinking about the hangover next morning, but I state the obvious I guess ! Cheers !

peck420

Xcathdra
Good thing the Us is an exporter now of some of those commodities, natural gas being one.

US Natural Gas Exports (2013): 1,572,351 million cubic feet
US Natural Gas Imports (2013): 2,883,115 million cubic feet
EIA

US is still a net importer of NG.

Why is an agreement between Russia and China a problem?

Aside from potentially collapsing the NG market?

The only reason we import any natural gas is because it hasn't been financially feasible to capture all of the gas from a well. A lot of it gets burned off. They have been building NG pipelines and substations as fast as humanly possible, and still not able to keep up with the amount being produed int he massive number of wells in the Permian Basin. When I am on my work computer I can get you some stats for just my county alone (not a particularly large county). But it is something like 471 wells in some stage of building right now. This is all the time. All day, everyday, as fast as they can produce them. The reason why? The Cline Shale, which is forecasted to produce oil and local economy for 15 years minimum. For West Texans, this news isn't so bad....drill baby drill.

Consider this: as we are able to capture more of the NG for processing....

- the I -25 corridor is being built, to connect Houston to Canada. This will give direct access to the Gulf via an interstate connection right to Canada

- the oil refining capacity of Houston is among the largest in the world

- Along the i25 corridor also lies another very large refinery in the center of West Texas

- The majority of the fuel "shortages" have been a lack of ability to refine West Texas oil fast enough, due to bottlenecks in the refineries in Oklahoma. Opening up Houston to West Texas is HUGE when it comes to improving our refining capabilities

- The advent of "GTL" technology will turn our immense NG reserves into low sulphur, clean burning diesel. Cheaper than current diesel production technologies do, actually. The GTL refinery will be built in the Gulf, probably near Houston (insider information for you. ).

- The wind farms in West Texas are fairly well known. If you want to see them, just drive up I-20 and have a look. Between Abilene and Odessa, down to San Angelo, there are tens of thousands of them. We also tend to have LOTS of sun/very little cloud. Our only risk is the occasional hailstorm. new solar panels are being set up for a solar farm pilot program. the idea is the panels flip themselves over when the photovoltaic switch detects that it isn't sunny to help prevent hail damage. If this works, Texas will absolutely be among the world energy leaders. On behalf of America, of course. Even if it doesn't happen....we are still among the worlds energy leaders.

tri-lobe-1
all I see is jealousy and outright hatred by quiet a few US members.....for some reason that I don't understand....just check out all the present threads about Russia in the last month...

as an outsider...reading ATS ...I get the distinct feeling that many of the US posters are unable to accept different cultures, different peoples and different ways of living....

it's really sad and disheartening to see such close mindedness.....maybe it's the ignorance of the youthful posters who haven't experience life outside of their country and don't know any better....

if Russia and China work out a mutually beneficial trade agreement....well good on them and it's nobody else's business....

I see many European and Asian countries moving ahead now and in the future....I also see some countries not being so fortunate because of poor management and internal problems.......that is life...

peace to all....

FWIW, don't just focus on the US. I see plenty of threads telling us how our culture is wrong, too. That is what people do. Hell, i read a thread earlier where parents get fined for taknig their kids out of town and missing school a few days. While that isn't how i would parent....fined? Really? When you fine a parent, the one it affects most is the kid. The kids typically have their line items in a budget slashed before the parents give up things like cigarettes and booze.

But my little minirant aside....it just goes to show how much we, as humans, like to butt in to other peoples affairs.

Morning peeps.

Well I can see the thread has been busy overnight.

I would like to remind people I didn't start this thread to discuss who is the good guy/bad guy.....there are other threads for that. Neither did I start the thread to discuss who has the most oil/gas....there are other threads for that too.

Please let me clarify a bit more where I am coming from.
When we have huge geopolitical situations such as this, I always try to stand back and weigh up HOW this is going to affect me. Me, you....the PEOPLE who stand responsible for putting these people in power, to make decisions about our lives. I think most of us can agree that we count for nothing in the eyes of the politicians/bankers/corporations at the end of the day...we too are regarded as 'commodities'.

If you can, can you step back just a little bit and just look at how this particular situation is going to affect YOU, like this man has....

For that reason, Sinclair – no fan of either Russia or Putin – urges American leaders to back away from an economic confrontation with Russia, arguing that the U.S. would be the loser.

Russia threatened to dump its U.S. treasuries if America imposed sanctions regarding Russia’s action in the Crimea.

Zero Hedge argues that Russia has already done so.

But veteran investor Jim Sinclair argues that Russia has a much scarier financial attack which Russia can use against the U.S.

Specifically, Sinclair says that if Russia accepts payment for oil and gas in any currency other than the dollar – whether it’s gold, the Euro, the Ruble, the Rupee, or anything else – then the U.S. petrodollar system will collapse:

www.zerohedge.com...

15 years ago, way before I had the internet (I only got 'online' 8 years ago) I made a prediction that the dollar would collapse, only this time when it collapses, as opposed to other 'great civilisations' when they have ....it will take the rest of us with it.

It's quite simple really, as far as I can see. Again some 15 years ago, one of the wealthiest people in the UK Duke of Westminster, paid his taxes...in advance up to 2025!!!! 25 years IN ADVANCE. If he can work that out, and have the capability to do it....then don't you think all these bankers, politicians and corporations have seen what's coming from way back?

About 4 years ago I said 'something' was going to give us a 48 hour 'heads up' on a Tuesday.....because depending where you were in the world we would be waking up to a very different world on the Thursday/Friday. While everybody was distracted by the Crimean partition, and searching for a missing plane, Mededev was in Beijing on Tuesday last.....and that is when all this was agreed.....the paperwork in May is a formality. I don't think last Tuesday was THE Tuesday......but I'm sticking to my guns.......meh...Yellowstone could finally blow her top on a Tuesday...so all this politico wrangling will be moot anyhow.

Start thinking for YOURSELVES folks. Put your political allegiances aside. Start thinking about you and your family.

Thank you for reading......I'll be back.......

Oh, by the way, I caught this just before I went to bed last night....Putin in an interview yesterday has said they (Russia) will not be continuing with 'tit for tat' sanctions.........it's pretty obvious to me why they wont.....they have the mother of all sanctions in their hand.

Rainbows
Jane

reply to post by Patriotsrevenge

Patriotsrevenge
Putin can play his games all he wants. We in America have a hell of a lot of gas and oil [...]
The FED just always makes people think we are running out of oil to keep the price up, that is how they make their money to loan us for whatever we need and that is why we do not really care about the debt owed.

So you're ignorant about the macroeconomic implications of the end of the USD as a GRC, and you didn't even bother to read this thread, because those implications were explained in a few posts.

The sad thing is: this weakness in your system is only possible because of that ignorance.
You people should have listened to Ron Paul... he warned you over and over again, and you don't even appreciate him.

angelchemuel

If you can, can you step back just a little bit...

Quite agree, Jane. Most of my recent posts have been highly critical of the US, but I am not actually anti-American, I am merely critical of wrong action and hypocrisy and false claims, that is what I attack, and the US and other Western governments are leading Western nations into serious trouble on two possible fronts...a) potential military skirmishes along fractured borders, and b) economic skirmishes that could blow up in the face of those conducting the manipulations. If handled wrongly, and specifically for the wrong reasons, ordinary people at grassroots levels will suffer immensly. So, I think it is very important to bring clarification to those who hold thoughts and opinions that do not view the bigger picture, and the potential calamity that could befall the economies of the West, and specifically the US.

...look at how this particular situation is going to affect YOU, like this man has...

That is an excellent video which supports everything I have been stating on various threads. The US's economic position is on very thin ice, and puts into perspective just how irrelevant Western sanctions against Russia, how punitive and ineffective and meaningless they really are. Western leaders are playing smoke screen with their peoples, just to be seen as standing up against Russian aggression, but Russian aggression has not been really shown, it has just been stated and the imagination colours in the gaps.

Fact of the matter is, the Eastern markets, especially and including Russia's, are going to be driving the world's economies for a long time in the near future. The time will come when Europe will turn from the petrodollar, it will have to to save the Euro, which is why Britain will not take up the Euro as its currency, it will keep the pound sterling, because it can be traded quite well in any currency. It is the American dollar that is going to suffer the most, and that means the American economy will eventually feel the inflationary effects it has been sheilded from for decades. America's 'free lunch' at the world's table is coming to an end. The obese effigy of American culture will be led away from the world's table protesting that it has valuable credit, but in fact has no credit and can no longer participate in the lunch.

The problem as I see it, and I'd like to be wrong, is that some American posters refuse quite wilfully to view the situation down the line. They are refusing to acknowledge the changes that are coming to the economic lines of business. America cannot force the world to buy it's reserve energy commodities, it can only participate in the new emerging markets. So the dollar will have to compete against other currencies, which means an eventual devaluation of the dollar, and the the full decline of the petrodollar. These are not suppositions, these are facts of the future.

The concern is...how will America act in trying to save its economy? Military war looks inevitable at some point, arising out of economic war, and that kind of selfish insularism will be met by a massive ranging of enemies America creates for itself.

reply to post by angelchemuel


What is the West going to do when it's only weapon, applying sanctions, is silly? The Middle East, Russia, China, South American emerging markets... all places that the west wants to push sanctions on... yet, the most wealthy places in the current economy.

The West... in an economic recession... going bankrupt or broke... all its sanctions are going to do is make the wealthy countries trade with each other and leave the West out.

elysiumfire
angelchemuel

If you can, can you step back just a little bit...

I am merely critical of wrong action and hypocrisy and false claims, that is what I attack, and the US and other Western governments are leading Western nations into serious trouble on two possible fronts...a) potential military skirmishes along fractured borders, and b) economic skirmishes that could blow up in the face of those conducting the manipulations. If handled wrongly, and specifically for the wrong reasons, ordinary people at grassroots levels will suffer immensly.

Absolutely correct - read elsiumfire's post. What hurts people the most is being forced to believe what are patently lies. The West is on very shaky grounds if it thinks that imposing "economic" "sanctions" on Russia is the best solution.

The West is also on shaky grounds if it thinks that decreasing the size of its military at this point in time, while Russia and China have been training and advancing theirs, is an intelligent decision, even simply politically.

Look at the situation in Crimea. Part of the reason that Russia got the territory without a fight is that our troops have been fighting counter-insurgency wars for quite some time and would simply be crushed in a head-on collision with Russian forces.

So we are left imposing these questionable sanctions... if Putin is probing for weak points and ways to call out the West's bluff, he might as well take back all of the former Soviet territory by the end of the summer.

elysiumfire

Denial is a wonderful comfort blanket until reality tears it to shreds.

Basically a good quote, I think that the U.S. has been milking the denial for all its worth lately.