Petrodollar Alert: Putin Prepares To Announce "Holy Grail" Gas Deal With China

reply to post by elysiumfire


Excellent read, thoroughly enjoyed it, and easy peezy to understand. Thank you.

Rainbows
Jane

reply to post by swanne


What they actually don't share with the US is the amount of war brought to the world... Where the US wins by no contest. LET THE US SPREAD DEMOCRACY!

DJW001
reply to post by PlanetXisHERE

 

After all, when China overtakes the US economically, which is a mathematical certainty,

Please show your math.

What, you're surprised that the country that has had the world's largest economy for much of the past 3000 years will reclaim that position once more?

There are hundreds of charts like these online, no serious economist doubts that this will happen, the only question is when.

DJW001

angelchemuel
reply to post by DJW001

 

Please see my post in reply to Triton Teranis above yours. Thank you.
It is indeed speculation until the Chinese say anything...but it's certainly not based in fantasy. Other countries are breaking away from using the Petrodollar as has been cited by several different posters all through this thread.

Rainbows
Jane

Yes, and I repeat, the move away from the petrodollar is bad for Russia. Why pay Russia in a stable currency when they are willing to accept worthless rubles for political reasons?

The second statement explains the first. The ruble is a highly volatile currency. It has lost 20% of its value in the past year alone. No business would gamble that the payment it received for its goods or services would be worth their true value if it were paid for a year later in rubles. If a Chinese firm sold a Russian firm 10,000 yuan worth of merchandise in 2014, the exchange rate was about five rubles to the yuan. If the Russian firm agreed to pay the Chinese firm 50,000 rubles in one year's time, when the ruble had fallen to six rubles to the yuan, the Chinese would wind up 10,000 rubles (about 1,500 yuan) short on the deal! That's one reason international business tends to be conducted in petrodollars. Petrodollars would remain fungible internationally even if the actual United States vanished like lost Atlantis.

PlanetXisHERE

DJW001
reply to post by PlanetXisHERE

 

After all, when China overtakes the US economically, which is a mathematical certainty,

Please show your math.

What, you're surprised that the country that has had the world's largest economy for much of the past 3000 years will reclaim that position once more?

There are hundreds of charts like these online, no serious economist doubts that this will happen, the only question is when.

Frankly, that chart is based on too many assumptions to take seriously. Where is China going to get all the natural resources it would need to sustain an economy of they size? It cannot even feed it's own people as it is. It relies on imports from South America... and Ukraine.

The west has been hoarding Gold for many many century's

reply to post by TritonTaranis


Let's stick to the US.....not the entire western world.

So let me get this straight...the US has so much gold that it can't repatriate 300 tons to Germany...gold they are supposed to have....but the could only give them 5 tons in a YEAR?? They wouldn't even allow the Germans to SEE all their gold or audit it. Somebody's been sucking on some of that "hopium" that Obama's been selling....and it isn't me.

LOLZ....sure. That makes sense. If they had they gold, which they clearly don't, they would have given it to Germany. The worst part is they can't even buy it on the open market because China is buying it all...iuncluding the 500 tons per year that they produce themselves. Whatever they can't buy...India is picking up.

From the article you linked...

The majority of the American gold is reported to be held in the world-famous United States Bullion Depository in Fort Knox, Kentucky, although there is some controversy that suggests otherwise.

Ah yes...Fort Knox....observe

The Biggest Government Lie in History?

Amazingly, though, the last audit of Fort Knox occurred in 1953, right after President Eisenhower’s inauguration. Except no outside experts were permitted, and only about 5% of the gold was tested. So there’s been no full audit in over 60 years!

Source...HERE

Last audit in 1953...when Eisenhower was president. No outside experts were allowed...you can't make this stuff up.

From the same....

Bottom line: If you believe the government routinely lies or covers up its actions, we can’t simply laugh off the idea that there’s no gold in Fort Knox. Until an audit is done, the facts provide more questions than answers.

As for England...this is what they did with their gold...

The UK government's intention to sell gold and reinvest the proceeds in foreign currency deposits, including euros, was announced on 7 May 1999, when the price of gold stood at US$282.40 per ounce.[8] The official stated reason for this sale was to diversify the assets of the UK's reserves away from gold, which was deemed to be too volatile. The gold sales funded a like-for-like purchase of financial instruments in different currencies. Studies performed by HM Treasury had shown that the overall volatility of the UK's reserves could be reduced by 20% from the sale.

Source...HERE

As for China...

Starting at the time of China’s last official announcement, we’d need to add another 2,873 tonnes to China’s “official” holdings, just to account for imports and domestic production alone. That would put China’s current “known” holdings at 3,927 – well above Germany as the second largest gold holding nation in the world.

When you start adding up the stealthy, hard-to-track sources of gold – black market gold from Africa and South America (and maybe Iran) exports, global gold mining from semi-national Chinese firms or buyouts, and the idea that China is urging their own citizens to hoard gold – you’ll notice that China’s gold hoard is closer to 7,000 tonnes, or more!

So add it all up. China is the world’s leading gold producer and also the world’s leading gold importer. And surprisingly their official gold holdings haven’t risen an ounce in over three years.

It’s like the annoying guy at the poker table that hides his casino chips in his lap, waiting to pounce. But unlike a game of poker, the stakes are much higher in the global currency market.

Source...HERE

So chances are very good that China is sitting on at least as much gold as the US CLAIMS to have...but of course...they can't show it to you....LOL.

I'm not going to comment on the Guardian article you linked....it has NOTHING whatsoever to do with gold....or our discussion.

the west is holding "all the cards" and all the real wealth too

Where do you get this stuff?? What the west holds is a mountain of debt....the US is the largest borrower in the world while the Chinese are the largest LENDER on EARTH. They have massive reserves....the US has none.

How does that equate to them holding all the cards?? Is this one of those black is white, and up is down kinda statements?

I fail to see how China Russia will fare very well being locked into trading with only each other

They won't...had you read the articles I linked....you would see that, for instance....China is now the largest buyer of Saudi oil...who do you think they'll do business with? What about India, Iran....ect.

Ignore this all you want....but when reality comes knocking...you won't be able to bury your head in the sand.

Russia and China are only playing into western hands

This has to be the funniest thing I have read in a very long time....thanks for that...I needed it!

China plans in terms of CENTURIES, while the Americans think in 4 year election cycles....

Best of luck to ya mate....you're gonna need it.

reply to post by DJW001


Like I said, most economists, financial types and educated politicians around the world realize the economy of China will overtake the economy of the US, the only question is when not if, and they accept charts like the one above as FACT. If you have some hidden knowledge the China will split into multiple territories or something along those lines please share it, that is about the only scenario that would invalidate this chart.

China is the factory of the world, and they will trade manufactured goods for resources as all manufacturing economies have done through the ages. A lack of domestic natural resources did not stop countries like England or Japan from becoming economic powerhouses in their heyday.

Sure there is much poverty in China, but it is extremely rare for anyone to die of starvation there, and things have improved every year for the last three decades. At last count the US has 50 million people on foodstamps, sure they are not starving but also not a sign of economic strength.

Russia and china about to let go of the dollar

reply to post by PlanetXisHERE


Unfortunately, you have bought the hype. Real economists and political scientists consider China's rapid growth to be a bubble that will eventually burst. Did you know China actually has huge empty cities, built to create a real estate and building boom but serving no actual function?

pologerado
Russia and china about to let go of the dollar

Let them, and good riddance.

reply to post by PlanetXisHERE


I feel the need to explain why I reject this graph in greater detail. First, you must consider the source. It was not created by economists, it was created by a stock brokerage. In other words salesmen. It is not a policy tool, it is a sales tool designed to get you to purchase Goldman Sachs products, specifically 'emerging market' mutual funds and Exchange Traded Funds (ETFs).

Second, they make the assumption that China will be able to sustain its recent rate of growth indefinitely into the future. To illustrate the fallacy of this reasoning, let us try the same thing with the United States economy since World War Two. In 1940, the US GDP was $200,000,000,000. By 1950, it had risen to $300,000,000,000, a gain of 150%. If we make the same assumption that the salesmen at Goldman Sachs made, that the US economy would continue to grow at a rate of 150% per decade indefinitely, the US economy would now be worth $34,171,875,000,000, rather than the roughly $15,000,000,000,000 it actually is. What happened? It's called 'real life.' Imported goods were able to compete with goods manufactured in America. Tax revenue was spent on wasteful wars rather than building and maintaining infrastructure. Labor unions and environmental regulations made it desirable for companies to move their manufacturing abroad, and so forth.

In other words, the only way that China will eclipse the US economy as shown in your graph is if China never has labor unions or environmental regulation, never diverts tax income into wars, the price of raw materials stays constant, the cost of transporting both the raw materials and finished goods does not become prohibitive... in short, those graphs are predictive of China's economic future everywhere but the real world.

I have felt obliged to explain this in detail for the benefit of those who do not understand the difference between economics and rhetoric. Announcing plans to 'ditch the dollar' is rhetoric. Relying on the dollar for stable and reliable international trade is economics.

reply to post by DJW001



A jump from 200 to 300 is just 50% at most.

Please revise your figures. Thanks.



Back to OP, when China managed to coax Russia and the rest of the BRICS and their associates to ditch the petrodollar, America's days of the world's overlord are over. Bad news for the USA but that's what you deserve for losing your country to a bunch too big to fail banksters and self serving politicians.


China has been eyeing the reserve currency status for a long time and while they built up their foreign reserve and military, you are having free lunches that make you fat and complacent.

If the petrodollar is dropped so is the US debt by an ongoing dispute with Russia


The debt WILL be dropped and considered an act of war


Let's see if I'm wrong


Oh yeah... And, Iceland is doing pretty well


And if the worst come to worst.. There will no doubt be a new currency backed by western gold which collectivity makes china and Russia's reserves look like a tea party


I don't think the US & west is at all bothered about poking the Bear or the dragon tbh

mypan
reply to post by DJW001

 

China has been eyeing the reserve currency status for a long time and while they built up their foreign reserve and military, you are having free lunches that make you fat and complacent.

Shame that's never going to happen tho,

From the source.

Putin did take time, however, to thank one other country apart from China for its understanding over Ukraine and Crimea - saying India had shown "restraint and objectivity".

He also called Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh to discuss the crisis on Tuesday, suggesting there is room for Russia's ties with traditionally non-aligned India to flourish.

Although India has become the largest export market for U.S. arms, Russia remains a key defense supplier and relations are friendly, even if lacking a strong business and trade dimension, due to a strategic partnership dating to the Soviet era.

Putin's moves to assert Russian control over Crimea were seen very favorably in the Indian establishment, N. Ram, publisher of The Hindu newspaper, told Reuters. "Russia has legitimate interests," he added.

Also from the source.

The EU is Russia's biggest trade partner, accounting for almost half of all its trade turnover.

I searched "India's closest allies" and this is what turned up.

Countries considered India's closest include the Russian Federation, Israel, Afghanistan, France, Bhutan and Bangladesh. Russia is the largest supplier of military equipment to India, followed by Israel and France.

It isn't "Russia, China, Iran vs. U.S./Europe/Israel". It isn't as simple as that.

Also, I'll have most of you here know, the United States are Saudi Arabia's closest allies. This is a SHOCKING FACT THAT CANNOT BE IGNORED!!! YOU DON'T JUST DISINFORM THE PUBLIC OF THIS KIND OF #!

reply to post by Davian

Also, I'll have most of you here know, the United States are Saudi Arabia's closest allies. This is a SHOCKING FACT THAT CANNOT BE IGNORED!!! YOU DON'T JUST DISINFORM THE PUBLIC OF THIS KIND OF #!

Well, that's pretty arrogant of you to say IMHO....in which case I'll have you know.....

The Hydraulic Fracturing of Saudi Arabia...

Since the early twentieth century, Saudi Arabia has enjoyed a close relationship with the United States. From the development of the Saudi oil fields,to the First Gulf War, this relationship has been an uneasy cooperation—each side received something out of the alliance while nervously watching the other. So recently we have the first open break between the two powers culminating in the Saudi’s refusing a seat on the U.N Security Council due to anger with U.S. Middle Eastern policies.

In addition, the Kingdom is furious with U.S. refusal to arm Sunni rebels fighting the Iranian backed Syrian regime. The uneasy trust between the U.S. and Saudi Arabia has been broken. This opens up the playing field for other global powers such a China or Russia to make inroads where the U.S. once enjoyed hegemony. It also opens up the world to a possible nuclear arms race in the Middle East. In fact, this is already happening in Egypt, another broken U.S. relationship, who just closed a major arms deal with Russia in a slap in the face to the Obama Administration’s decision to cut military aid. China would like nothing better than to gain access to a secure source of Saudi oil and strategic American built bases as well.

More here.....
www.zerohedge.com...

Rainbows
Jane

angelchemuel
reply to post by Davian

 

Also, I'll have most of you here know, the United States are Saudi Arabia's closest allies. This is a SHOCKING FACT THAT CANNOT BE IGNORED!!! YOU DON'T JUST DISINFORM THE PUBLIC OF THIS KIND OF #!

Well, that's pretty arrogant of you to say IMHO....in which case I'll have you know.....

The Hydraulic Fracturing of Saudi Arabia...

Since the early twentieth century, Saudi Arabia has enjoyed a close relationship with the United States. From the development of the Saudi oil fields,to the First Gulf War, this relationship has been an uneasy cooperation—each side received something out of the alliance while nervously watching the other. So recently we have the first open break between the two powers culminating in the Saudi’s refusing a seat on the U.N Security Council due to anger with U.S. Middle Eastern policies.

In addition, the Kingdom is furious with U.S. refusal to arm Sunni rebels fighting the Iranian backed Syrian regime. The uneasy trust between the U.S. and Saudi Arabia has been broken. This opens up the playing field for other global powers such a China or Russia to make inroads where the U.S. once enjoyed hegemony. It also opens up the world to a possible nuclear arms race in the Middle East. In fact, this is already happening in Egypt, another broken U.S. relationship, who just closed a major arms deal with Russia in a slap in the face to the Obama Administration’s decision to cut military aid. China would like nothing better than to gain access to a secure source of Saud

Well

Well I am quite angry that you would automatically attack me based on the baseless viewpoint of yours in which you claim I was being arrogant for exposing unreadily available information. There goes your credibility eh?

mypan
reply to post by DJW001

 

A jump from 200 to 300 is just 50% at most.

Please revise your figures. Thanks.



Back to OP, when China managed to coax Russia and the rest of the BRICS and their associates to ditch the petrodollar, America's days of the world's overlord are over. Bad news for the USA but that's what you deserve for losing your country to a bunch too big to fail banksters and self serving politicians.


China has been eyeing the reserve currency status for a long time and while they built up their foreign reserve and military, you are having free lunches that make you fat and complacent.

Sorry. The increase is 50% per decade. I added the 1.0 to the 0.5 to make sure the figure augmented rather than decreased. The argument holds.

by western gold which collectivity makes china and Russia's reserves look like a tea party

reply to post by TritonTaranis


How can you still say things like this, given all the information I`ve given you clearly showing that China`s gold reserves are much larger than the US?

I notice you had no reply to the information I provided you. I get the feeling the facts really don't mean much to you.

Shame that's never going to happen tho,

reply to post by TritonTaranis


Not so fast....

In the last few years, there has been more talk about the U.S. dollar losing it status as the reserve currency.
This talk is certainly justified, given what we have seen. The Federal Reserve has more than quadrupled the adjusted monetary base in the last five years, and the government is running trillion dollar deficits with a national debt now over $17 trillion... and we don’t see any sign of this slowing down.

Will the U.S. Dollar Lose its Reserve Status?
THIS is Why Gold Still Matters

HERE

De-crowning the dollar, and the 'collapse' ahead

The gradual erosion of the U.S. dollar's status as the world's reserve currency has been greatly hastened of late. This is due not only to the perpetual gridlock in D.C., but also our government's inability to articulate a strategy to deal with the $126 trillion of unfunded liabilities.

Our addictions to debt and cheap money have finally caused our major international creditors to call for an end to dollar hegemony and to push for a "de-Americanized" world.

China, the largest U.S. creditor with $1.28 trillion in Treasury bonds, recently put out a commentary through the state-run Xinhua news agency stating that, "Such alarming days when the destinies of others are in the hands of a hypocritical nation have to be terminated."

HERE

Still want to delude yourself into thinking it isn't going to happen? I can guarantee you...the days of American dollars as the reserve currency are almost over.